Why does cilantro taste horrible? (to some people)
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Melissa:I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Okay, Jim. Are you ready to talk about cilantro.
Jam:Yes. I guess so. I guess that's what we're talking about then.
Melissa:That's what we're talking about today. We're talking about cilantro.
Jam:Man, I wish I had some sort of cilantro y dish to eat at this moment now that we're talking
Melissa:about it. So fun.
Jam:Yeah. Seriously.
Melissa:Maybe, like, a really good taco soup with a or chicken tortilla soup with a nice cilantro and lime squeeze on top.
Jam:I've got some taco soup in the fridge right now, believe it or not, but I do not have any cilantro. Oh. So maybe I'll order some Chipotle to get delivered here, they'll be done it will be here by the time we finish recording. We ought to do that. We, Not sponsored by Chipotle, but But interested, Chipotle, just for the record.
Melissa:We did make some guacamole the other day that we brought to share with you and your wife.
Jam:Oh, yes, dude. That was great.
Melissa:We forgot the cilantro in it. So it is great as it was. It would have been even greater with some cilantro.
Jam:Nice. Yeah. I probably would have liked a little bit more, but I didn't even know. So
Melissa:Well, today, we're gonna talk about why cilantro tastes really good to us and why maybe it doesn't taste as good to some other people.
Jam:Nice. This is something I've wondered about a lot. One of our mutual friends is one of those people who it doesn't taste good too. And I brought him to a local taqueria That is very good. I was very excited about it.
Jam:And I just told him some things to order. He ordered it, And it came with tons of onions and cilantro on it. And he was
Melissa:a traditional street taco does.
Jam:Yes. And he is otherwise very not picky, but was very disappointed that it was covered in cilantro. Oh. No no way to get it all Out. And then he explained to me that cilantro does not taste to him like it tastes to me and many of us.
Jam:And I was like, I do not understand that at all, and what a sad world it must be for you.
Melissa:Seriously.
Jam:Ma'am.
Melissa:Okay. Well, we're gonna talk about why his world is that way.
Jam:Okay. Okay. I'm I'm I'm pumped.
Melissa:So first, if we're gonna talk about why cilantro tastes the way it does to some people rather than others, I think first, we just have to talk about why cilantro tastes at all, what gives cilantro its taste?
Jam:K. Yeah. That makes sense.
Melissa:And the answer to that is chemistry.
Jam:No way.
Melissa:No. Okay. I was just indulging myself. So So cilantro has molecules that have a strong flavor, and many of these are what's known as aldehydes. So so I think you've probably heard of this before.
Melissa:We've talked about it before on the show, but other people who maybe are turning in for the 1st time, you've probably heard of it because of formaldehyde. A lot of people have heard of that word before
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And formaldehyde is an aldehyde. And what an aldehyde means, it's a functional group.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And we've talked about functional groups before as well. They're just basically a group of atoms arranged the same way consistently, and they appear in a lot of different molecules. And when they're arranged in this one way, they'll have a specific function.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So in this case, the functional group, the aldehyde, is a carbon with a double bond to an oxygen on one side.
Jam:K.
Melissa:Then on the other side, the carbon has a hydrogen bonded to it. K. And then it can have anything it want as the third attachment.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:It's got 3 points of attachment. One where there's 2 bonds to an oxygen, one where there's hydrogen and then one where it can have anything it wants on the other side.
Jam:K.
Melissa:That actual structure itself doesn't matter a ton, just like to lay it out there for some people. Formaldehyde is a special kind of a aldehyde that has 2 hydrogens on it, and it's used for preserving bodies a lot. So that's why people have heard of it. In the aldehydes that are in cilantro, they have a long carbon chain off of them. So, like, formaldehyde has a hydrogen as that third attachment.
Melissa:Most of the things that give cilantro its flavor, its characteristic smell and taste have a long carbon chain between 6 10 carbons off of it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And a few of those have a double bond in that carbon chain. So instead of just a bunch carbons single bonded to each other, there are some with a double bond in there.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Those aldehydes with a double bond
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Are known to have a somewhat soapy or bitter taste. Okay.
Jam:If you
Melissa:just tasted that by itself, it would taste like that to you, to anyone.
Jam:Okay. Okay. Got it.
Melissa:They're just part of cilantro's flavor. They blend in with the other aldehydes.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So for most people, those don't stand out.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But sometimes if you have too much cilantro, I think that can kind of come through. There's an episode of Great British Bake Off where that happened.
Jam:But most of us aren't using just tons of it. We're, like, Garnishing something with it, and we're not just eating a mouthful of cilantro.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So that's cilantro. And the way that molecules those molecules convert to a smell to you, a smell and a taste, we've talked about this before. There's an episode that we did completely on smells. Jam made a great old factory for your olfactory. Of little pun that made us all laugh.
Melissa:So these molecules will hit receptors, your ole factory, so in your nose, receptors, and when it binds, your brain interprets that as a smell. So there's a whole episode on that.
Jam:Mhmm. And it's kinda blew my mind. That's the kind of stuff that I'm like, man, dude. Gosh. Just crazy.
Melissa:It's crazy. But just like everything in our body, these olfactory receptors are controlled by our genes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And it turns out that there are some people who have a genetic modification, just an abnormality
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:On one of their olfactory receptor genes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:There's actually a few that have come up when they're looking at this, but some of these genetic modifications have been linked to people who don't like cilantro.
Jam:Man. But just passing it down.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Man. Okay. Dang. That's that's a bummer.
Melissa:So there was 2 main ones that I saw talked about in an article that came out in the journal Nature, which is a really well known, highly respected journal, one of the genetic mutations, the rodent version of that gene so they haven't tested this on humans, but the rodent version of that gene
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Is thought to be responsible for binding with aldehydes. So it makes sense that a mutation on that gene is going to impact the way we perceive our aldehyde binding, and aldehydes are very abundant in cilantro.
Jam:Got it. Okay. So does that gene mutation in it meaning that they Into being less good at bonding with aldehydes?
Melissa:They don't know.
Jam:Okay. It just
Melissa:Just that there is a modification on it.
Jam:Okay. So that gene For rats is known to affect bonding with aldehydes.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And when there's mutation, it's not like it's like Now they can't bomb it at all, but it's just something is different here.
Melissa:Right. Like, maybe even it bonds better to aldehydes or has 2 sites through binding to aldehydes, and then then you can detect that even stronger or something.
Jam:Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. It could be yeah. Could be too good.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Mhmm. Another modification that seems to be linked to people who don't like cilantro is on the bitterness receptor.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Which makes sense to me because that soapy flavor is considered to be bitter.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So maybe there's a modification on their bitterness receptor so they're more sensitive to that bitter taste.
Jam:Mhmm. Right.
Melissa:So literally, there are people who most likely don't like cilantro because their genes have modifications that make their sensation experience different than other people's
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And their their actual experience of eating it is different than our experience of eating it because of the way their genes have made their receptors interact with the molecules.
Jam:Oh my gosh. That's kind of like a nightmare in some ways because, you know, that philosophical question that people have about, like, When I taste this, is it how you taste it? Or Yeah. When I see this color, is that how you see it too? Mhmm.
Jam:That question, it's hard for us for the answer. But in this case, When you can look at genes and stuff and it's not just like the difference of, like, oh, mostly you like cilantro and I don't or vice versa, you can actually find reasons why that might be the case. And then it's, like, kinda terrifying in a way because then you realize our experiences of the world Could be massively different Yeah. In more ways than just cilantro, but even that is a pretty big one.
Melissa:I know. Well, this maybe will give you a little bit of hope.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:There was a correlation between these mutations and people who didn't like cilantro. It was maybe a few percent higher. So that was statistically significant, but maybe in our everyday experiences, not as significant as we would maybe
Jam:think. Okay. Okay.
Melissa:And so 1 person ran the statistic calculations, and he theorized that it was likely less than 10% of people who don't like cilantro due to genetic modification.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:So probably 90% of people ish who don't like cilantro Uh-huh. Don't like it because they just don't like how it tastes. Right. Okay. Okay.
Melissa:So I think there's a different class. You know? It's just some people don't like the flavor of something maybe
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:It seems like there's some of that, and there's some of the genetic modification playing a part.
Jam:Got it. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. And, obviously, people have tons of different tastes about everything, and so that's we're all different.
Jam:But Right. That's interesting. That get does give me a little more hope to know that it's only a Small amount that seem to be able to be actually linked to that genetic modification.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Wow, dude. Weird.
Melissa:Isn't that crazy?
Jam:Yes. Very, very crazy. And, also, I just can't get over thinking about, man, what if saunter tasted bad to me? Like, I really do like it a lot, and
Melissa:I Me too.
Jam:Can't imagine what that would feel like.
Melissa:I know. I love it so much. And it's just I know it shouldn't be. This probably shows that I'm just clearly not a biologist.
Jam:Mhmm. But
Melissa:it's just crazy to me that our genes control everything. You know? I mean, I know that they do and that DNA basically creates us, kind of. I mean, there's nature versus nurture, you know, but it's just crazy to me that genes control the way you experience cilantro. Mhmm.
Melissa:I don't know. Yeah. I know. That's really me being a nonbiology person being by biology, but it just really is crazy to me. Every time this comes up, it's just we have legitimately found the gene that changes the way you experience a flavor, a molecule, it just blows my mind.
Melissa:And that genes even know how to control olfactory receptors is wild to me.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So that always blows my mind. So I'm always amazed by that aspect of biochemistry.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Okay. So do you wanna try to tell that back to me? And then I have a fun fact for you
Jam:Nice. That might
Melissa:help the cilantro haters.
Jam:Okay. Nice. I love fun facts, and I hope that there could be hope.
Melissa:Pros, cons. It kind of goes back to an earlier episode that we've talked about too. So it's, like, doubly fun.
Jam:Okay. Sweet. Yeah. Let's do it.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:Okay. So let's start Where let's start in the real world for a second out in the not zoomed in on molecules world for a second.
Melissa:Okay. I can start there.
Jam:So I
Melissa:will say, though, that both of those are the real world. Just
Jam:Yeah. That's why I modified it. I was like, real world. And then I was like, The world that we experience,
Melissa:that we Yeah.
Jam:Can perceive at all.
Melissa:Yes. That's fair. That's totally fair.
Jam:So we You know, 1 person, say, me, for instance, takes a bite of something with with some With some Chipotle in it.
Melissa:Yeah. Chipotle on the brain today. Chipotle, if you'd like to sponsor us.
Jam:Yep. We have some similar Simpson Moore views the World Chipotle. Just so you know, we're like minded. Alright? Okay.
Jam:So back on track. Taking taking a bite of whatever it is, Whatever brand name something that has some cilantro in it.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:I take a bite and lots of stuff starts going on In my body, my tongue, my the sensors on my tongue start interpreting All the flavors going on and start the receptors start interacting with the molecules of the food that I am That that I put in my mouth. And it's it's all at that molecular level to where what atoms we've got going on in our food make all the difference.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And that is telling then our the sensors in our tongue and the sensors in our nose
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Are sort of tell our brains what to what we're experiencing.
Melissa:Which that right there is wild.
Jam:That's crazy. So I'm doing that. And then somebody next to me, say our friend, Brad, who did not like cilantro.
Melissa:To heartbreaking.
Jam:Heartbreaking. He takes a bite, same thing. His tongue and nose start doing The same process that I'm undergoing with a slight difference That and this was where I I think I might have used this analogy before. Who knows? When we talked about smell and taste in the past.
Jam:But what comes to mind for me is like different types of plugs, like electrical plugs or say, like, USB cord or something like that. But if you think of just like a standard electrical plug. You know, some plugs have 3 prongs and some plugs have 2 prongs.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:For the most part, many of us, everyday Joes, Don't think that much about it. And that 3rd prong is usually ground, but many things can work with or Without the 2 or 3 prongs. But just Right. I think a simple way that comes to mind for me is imagining, what if The connections that are happening on my tongue and in my nose versus Brad's tongue and Brad's nose, They're still there. He still tastes things and smells things just like I taste and smell things.
Jam:But what if his connections are just slightly different Prongs wise. It's not like it's broken completely or even works better necessarily, but it's just at least different To where his experience is different. And, like,
Melissa:say a different voltage?
Jam:Like a different voltage or if something really needed, oh, yeah. Didn't think about getting that much more specific. Okay. I actually think I have a better one. So many of us are very familiar with USB cables.
Jam:Mhmm. There's actually many that look exactly the same, but some are USB 3 point o. Some are USB 2 point o. That's a whole rabbit trail on its own, But most of us cannot even tell by looking.
Melissa:No. I did not know until this exact moment that that was true.
Jam:Yes. It's a it's a huge rabbit hole to go down, but Look exactly the same. They perform so differently. And Interesting. In the case of cilantro, if I remember Right.
Jam:So cilantro has aldehydes in it Mhmm. Which is a functional group. Mhmm. Which is a carbon with a hydrogen on one side Mhmm. And oxygen on the other side?
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:The double bonds on the oxygen?
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:K. Nice. And then the third thing can be whatever it wants to be.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Okay. So instead of
Melissa:in in cilantro, it is a carbon chain. There's a bunch of different aldehydes with carbon chains. They range roughly from 6 to 10 carbons.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:There's a lot of different molecules with that aldehyde functional group on it.
Jam:Okay. Got it. Got it. And you said cilantro has A carbon chain that has also double bonds in the carbon chain.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Right? Okay.
Melissa:One of the variations. Yeah.
Jam:So that's what we've got going on in this case. So that's, Say the USB cable that we're trying to plug in. Mhmm. But then Brad and I, Barry Brad have really different USB ports. They both still fit in there.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:But then the Experience of what can happen is very different. So Yeah. Then I'm tasting this great thing. My brain is saying, hey. This tastes great.
Jam:It's it's interpreting all the atoms of this aldehyde group in cilantro. And the the things that it's telling my brain, I don't know all how it's all all happening so fast. It's very complicated, but it just it's a big old thumbs up in my brain.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And then and Brad and many other people's brains, it's doing all the calculations. And because of some slight differences in Tongue receptors and even, receptors in the nose that are Slightly different end up yielding a big fat thumbs down from Brad's brain.
Melissa:That's and it that's a good way to describe it because USBs, all these versions apparently look exactly the same, and it just looks like you have a nose and a tongue just like everybody else. It's like you just have a regular working mouth, and you just don't realize that even though it looks the same, it can function very differently. That's a great analogy, I loved it.
Jam:That's so much better than the 3 pronged things. That's what's tough about, like, totally scrambling to come up with them on the spot, but, yeah, that makes way more sense.
Melissa:And That does.
Jam:Yeah. I feel like a lot more accurate because the prongs are so obvious. You can look at it and know. You know? But One thing that's funny is that it's also very drastically oversimplifying how USB cables work.
Jam:There's obviously a lot of that I don't know about. Some people who Do you know about that? Or, like, I kind of, like, barely even talked about that, and it's probably still works as an analogy. But sorry to those of you who know Way more about that topic, which is one that Melissa and I both don't know anything about.
Melissa:Right. Correct. I didn't even know there were different types of USBs. So Yeah. I just plug in things to my computer and hope it works for me.
Melissa:So well, I think that was a great analogy, and that brings me to my fun fact for you to help out our cilantro hating friends.
Jam:Okay. Sweet.
Melissa:Which I don't know why they would do this, but in case they want to try the cilantro flavor maybe with less of that bitterness, it's possible that crushing the cilantro up first will release enzymes probably because you're damaging the plant wall just like in onions
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So go back to that episode. That's one of my favorite episodes we've ever done about onions and why they make people cry
Jam:Dude, seriously, me too. I love that one.
Melissa:Me too. So you can crush your cilantro, and it will release enzymes that will start to break down those aldehydes that give such a strong flavor, and it might not be as unpleasant an experience for those people.
Jam:Wow. Dude, That is cool. Interesting.
Melissa:Yeah. So that's a little good news for our cilantro hating friends, but who knows? Because some of them might just not like how it tastes in general, so that might not help them.
Jam:Well, I'm curious, though. I feel like now I've gotta trick Someone in the I think it's one of the things where it'd be actually a lot better if it was blind, you know, if they did not know That you were even experimenting on them.
Melissa:That's true.
Jam:But because I think if you have an association with that slafen never tastes good to you, And then I'm like, here, try it this way. You're gonna go into it thinking, well, it always tastes like this to me, and you're kind of expecting it. So Yeah. Let's trick somebody For science.
Melissa:Okay. That sounds fun. I'll do it. I'll be I'll be in on it with you. I don't know how, but we can try it.
Melissa:Yeah. So speaking of fun, is there anything fun from your week that you wanna share with us?
Jam:Oh, good transition. Wow.
Melissa:Thanks. Thanks. I'm getting much better at those smooth transitions.
Jam:So I've got a kind of controversial one, and it's not really controversial for the world. It is just controversial for me. So, Melissa, And some of the listeners out there who've listened for a little while, what is something that I very much do not like?
Melissa:There are so many things.
Jam:Sorry. Let me be more specific. What's something that lots of people that are my same gender Really like
Melissa:sports.
Jam:That I don't like sports. Exactly right. So and lots of people that are also are not I didn't like sports. Tons of people like sports. I do not like sports.
Jam:Doesn't matter what type of person you are. I feel very much in the minority about that most of the time. But I do love documentaries. Sometimes that causes me to have to Put my feelings about something aside to check out a documentary that is getting a lot of attention. And what I finally did This past week that many people are way ahead of me on doing is watching a documentary series called The Last Dance, Which A.
Jam:Is about the final season of Michael Jordan's Basketball career with the Chicago Bulls.
Melissa:Wow. That's cool.
Jam:And it was so good.
Melissa:I Wow.
Jam:Was very surprised. I didn't actually even know it's a series when I clicked on it. I've been I've been on documentary Kick again, and I studied that in college, which is why I care about watching good ones that people are talking about. And I heard good things. It's been getting some buzz from people who aren't even sports people, which is why I felt like I had to check it out.
Jam:And I watched 1 episode, and I was so hooked. And
Melissa:How? I'm amazed.
Jam:They just did such a good job with it. And you get to see kinda behind the curtain with Michael Jordan, who's someone, like, obviously grew up just always knowing about. He was huge, in the nineties.
Melissa:Space Jam. You know?
Jam:Yeah. And I love Space Jam, so which is surprising. But, I mean, they had Looney Tunes in it, so I guess not surprising.
Melissa:Yeah. I mean, I don't care about basketball, and I loved Space Jam.
Jam:Yeah. So yeah. Basically, anyone who's anyone who has a heart loves Space Jam. But
Melissa:Yeah. Definitely.
Jam:This the documentary series and I realize I'm so late to the party on this for for those of you basketball people, but it's so good. And if you're not a A sportsperson, I still highly recommend it, and I and I almost cannot believe I'm saying that. But it's on Netflix now. So
Melissa:that's fun. Well, I'm glad that you could put your feelings of sports aside to appreciate art.
Jam:Yes. Yep. And I think what it does well that I like about a lot of other documentaries is when you feel like you can kinda get an inside look of someone's life and empathize with them and see the horror Stuff that they are going through, that I think is one of the coolest things about the Yeah. Series.
Melissa:I agree.
Jam:So
Melissa:yeah. Very cool.
Jam:Well, what about you? What has been fun about your past week?
Melissa:Okay. Well, mine's half happy half a little stressful.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. I am at this moment, at this exact moment
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:15 days away from finishing my last class ever.
Jam:Woah. 15 days.
Melissa:Hopefully. I mean, in the past, I have made a similar claim, and then I decided to go get my PhD in another area. So I had to take classes again, but
Jam:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:I don't think you could talk me into this ever again. So
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:I think I am 15 days away from finishing my last class ever.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And that is very exciting because I am 15 days away from being done.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Also very stressful because 40% of my grade is left in those 2 weeks.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And we haven't done a lot me or my study group haven't done a lot towards that. Fine. I'll finish this.
Jam:Got it. So it's still plenty of work to be done.
Melissa:Plenty of work to be done, and this is a very busy season in my life at work. Anyway, I agreed to do some service from my department that's taking up a little bit more time than normal Mhmm. We've we've got our podcast going on. I'm still teaching. My students are coming up on the end of their semester.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So I've I'm doing research. We're collecting data actually in these few weeks. So there is a lot happening.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So it's a high stress for 2 weeks, but also a high payoff at the end of those 2 weeks.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And then I'll have some time at the end of the semester to just finish up my last little bits of research, I'll have about 2 weeks to work on research, and then I'm actually going on vacation. So that's exciting.
Jam:Nice. So
Melissa:that's like little vacation to Colorado.
Jam:Nice. So that is like yeah. High stakes, high payoff, And you've kinda already got a really good incentive there. So
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's so fast. It's happening really fast because we didn't have a spring break. They usually our semester ends later, but it's happening quickly, and there is a very bright exciting light at the end of the tunnel.
Melissa:So
Jam:Nice. Dude, awesome. Well, good luck. And I feel like there's plenty to motivate you to do a great job and that you will. And, Also, how exciting to be demo classes.
Jam:Like, what the heck? That's nuts.
Melissa:Yes. Very exciting. Yay. And I know most people reach that point a long time in the past, but I am still very, very excited. So Yay.
Melissa:Well, thanks, Jam, for coming and learning about cilantro and for sharing with us about your really humbling yourself and putting down your feelings about sports
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm. Anytime.
Melissa:For Michael Jordan's documentary. And thanks to all of you listeners. We literally could not do this show without you, and we are so thankful for the questions you submit and for the fun we have interacting with you guys, it's just such a joy to do this podcast.
Jam:And, also, thank you for teaching us and for answering a question that I'm sure that many of us have actually wondered or have heard about people Not like cilantro or have heard that genetic, like, a rumor about that or whatever. So these kinds of ideas and questions Are what drive this podcast. So if you have things that you wonder about that you think might be chemistry in your everyday life, please reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you. You can reach us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at chem for your life.
Jam:That's chem, f o r, your life, to share your thoughts and ideas. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, go to kodashfi.com/kim for your life. Enjoy at the cost of a cup of coffee. And don't forget, between now and the end of May, if you sign up for a monthly subscription On our Ko fi at any amount, we will send you a free exclusive sticker and note as a thank you. But if you're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast app and rating and writing a review on Apple Podcasts.
Jam:That also helps us to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of Chemistry For Your Life was created by Melissa Collini and Jam Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. J. M. Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to A.
Melissa:Kyu Song and Inul who reviewed this episode.
