130 Hydrogen Peroxide
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Melissa: [00:00:00] Hey,

I'm Melissa.

Jam: I'm Jam

Melissa: And I'm a chemist

Jam: and I'm not

Melissa: and welcome to chemistry for your life.

Jam: The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life. And this is one of your first times listening to our podcast. Welcome. Uh, when we say that Melissa is a chemist, she really is. She has her masters and she teaches chemistry and she is closer and closer everyday to finishing her PhD.

Melissa: Oh, my So close.

Jam: and when we say that I am not a chemist, I truly am not in any way. I didn't study anything close to that when I was in college. And, um, so I don't know any of this stuff and I learned right alongside you guys, uh, whatever, mostly teaches us every episode.

Melissa: But Jam is a radio television and film person. [00:01:00] That's what his degree is in. And he does a lot of the behind the scenes work to make this podcast happen. So we're very thankful for his skills.

Jam: Yes. And it helps that I am interested in science and chemistry. And so, uh, it's not like pulling teeth for me to sit here and listen to a chemistry lesson. So,

Melissa: that's true. And I'm very thankful for that.

Jam: so that works out.

Melissa: Uh, it works out. Perfect. No wonder we've been doing this for two years.

Jam: seriously.

Melissa: Um, okay. So this week Jam, we're going to talk about hydrogen peroxide.

Jam: Okay. I know of this stuff. I've used it. I'm pretty sure.

Melissa: What capacity have you used it in.

Jam: I remember having like a, what are those kind of sores you get in your mouth? And being told to like, put hydroperoxide on like a Q-tip and rub it on there to or something like that. Um, and that's the, that's what I used it for a lot at home growing up, but and probably like a wound or something like that, you know if I got a scrape, my mom was when I [00:02:00] was, you said on there, or we'd use like Neosporin and stuff like that, but

Melissa: Yeah.

Jam: those are the uses.

I can remember. I haven't had to use it in a long time.

Melissa: Okay. So hydrogen peroxide, I've gotten this question a few times, including once a long time ago, my mom asked me about using it on gums,

Jam: Um,

Melissa: going to have to do that in a different episode because there's so much to do here, but,

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: we're going to start with the basics this week.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So the basics are, what is hydrogen peroxide?

Why does it bubble when we put it on cuts and also, should we even put it on cuts?

Jam: okay. Interesting. I this. I definitely feel like there was a vibe that my grandmother, so my mom and my dad both worked in medicine in different capacities. My grandmother was a lot more of the like, um, advise hydrogen peroxide in a lot more use cases, if that makes sense. And my mom didn't seem to like depend on it as much.

[00:03:00] That makes sense. I, I always felt like there was a slightly generational difference there or whatever, but.

Melissa: That doesn't super surprise me and I think you'll see why as we go along.

Jam: Okay,

Melissa: So much like benzoyl peroxide, it has that oxygen bonded to an oxygen, but instead of those groups, it has two hydrogens on each side. And that oxygen bonded to the oxygen is the weak point where radicals will most likely form. Oxygen's just, don't really like being bonded to each other like that.

Jam: Interesting.

Melissa: It's not the most stable group. So when we think about functional groups, that's not one, that's just going to be very stable. If I see two oxygens bonded together, I think that's going to try to make radicals.

Jam: Oh, okay.

Melissa: And in fact, it does tend to make radicals when exposed to heat or light so that's why, when you have hydrogen peroxide at home, they tell you to store it in a cool dark place. And it's in that brown bottle. That's to keep the light out

Jam: Got it. Yeah. I'd wondered about that because they always have. [00:04:00] Like a very distinct bottle. And at one point I thought that was like, because it was old and like the bottles my grandma had or whatever, but then you still there and you buy it today. It's still in like a weird opaque container, but.

Melissa: It's still in that opaque container. And even in the organic chemistry lab, we kept it in the fridge because we really did not want it to break down as much as possible. And things that are prone to form radicals will do so in the presence of heat or light, and even just being at room temperature, that's a little bit of heat.

That's more energy than zero, right? So it will cause those radicals to form in the hydrogen peroxide bottle.

Jam: Interesting. I never even thought about putting hydrogen peroxide in the fridge. It's just,

Melissa: I wouldn't do that at home because it's not a chemical fridge. So you're much more likely for someone to accidentally drink it, which is very, very dangerous. It should not be drank. So I, I wouldn't risk it at home, but having it in a place that doesn't get really hot, like we have one medicine cabinet on our [00:05:00] wall that touches the outside of our house and that medicine cabinet gets really hot or really cold.

So. Keep my hydrogen peroxide, not there. I'd keep that somewhere more temperature controlled.

Jam: it. Got it. Okay. That makes sense.

Melissa: So, but don't, don't put it in your fridge cause it, you don't want to drink it, but in the chemistry lab, we have specific chemical fridges. So I'm glad you brought that

Jam: Right. Right, right. Makes sense.

Melissa: So hydrogen peroxide can be very dangerous.

It's also very amazing and it's also kind of everywhere. It exists in our bodies. Naturally when we get like a cut or a scrape, actually some hydrogen peroxide is produced by our bodies. It's a by-product of cell respiration. It has been used to bleach hair in the past, which I'm sure did a lot of damage to the hair.

So question mark if that's a good idea. It's used to bleach paper in making paper process. And it's also good actually to get bloodstains out of clothes, but it can also bleach the clothes. [00:06:00] So I kind of recommend only using that for like an under garments. If you have like a period stain or something that is highly recommended for that it's even been used as an explosive or a jet fuel,

Jam: Oh, gosh, that's

Melissa: it's all over the place.

Yeah. It's even an antibacterial and an antifungal.

Jam: Goodness gracious. That's crazy that that was just like, yeah, you get some oxygens and some hydrogens together and yep. It has all this

Melissa: And boom, boom, literally.

Jam: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Melissa: So it's very cool. The kind that you have at your house is usually about 3%. You'd have no more than 25%. So it's highly diluted with water. But the kind that we have in the lab, that's highly concentrated is really pretty dangerous because as it forms those radicals, it can become very reactive.

And if you touch it or it heats up enough, it can explode. So. If you were working in a chemistry lab [00:07:00] and there's something that's known to generate peroxides and you find an old bottle of that somewhere, actually the whole building will be evacuated and they will call the bomb squad because it's that dangerous to even touch that

Jam: Oh, my gosh. Yikes.

Melissa: Very scary.

Jam: Goodness. I would not have thought about that at all. Like I just hydrogen peroxide being a chemical, most of us have know the name of, and have had around obviously diluted, but like I've had around, I would not have thought of it as like, even remotely potential, potentially that dangerous at all.

That's crazy.

Melissa: Yeah, it's dangerous in a lot of different ways. It's dangerous because if you drink it, it can be caustic. It can put too much oxygen in your bloodstream. It can form radicals, which can damage tissue. And also it can form radicals in the high pressure situation of a closed bottle and become explosive.

And for some that's for all peroxides, not just hydrogen peroxide, that they can become explosive, but. For some peroxides that have carbons on them, they [00:08:00] really are even more dangerous because the carbon is basically giving you the oxygen fuel and the thing to burn in the same space. So they burn pretty rapidly and they can be very scary, which is why it's been used in jet fuel and in bombs.

Jam: Got it. Interesting.

Melissa: So that's just a little bit about peroxides overall, and then specifically her hydrogen peroxide, the kind you have in your home is not likely to explode because it's so diluted with water that it can't build up enough of that pressure to be very dangerous So that's all of my chemistry lab type of peroxide knowledge. But when I was growing up, like you, I mostly only knew it for first aid. So like if I got a cut, I don't really remember my mom pouring hydrogen peroxide in it. Actually. I mostly remember her doing neosporin but I knew other people's parents did. And one time I got a really bad, like. Got caught on something when I was out and I just ran into a CVS and I knew you were supposed to buy hydrogen peroxide [00:09:00] to pour on your wound. So I just did that, but it turns out that it might not actually be the best to pour hydrogen peroxide on your cuts and wounds.

So let's talk about that. zoom in, in that specific.

Jam: Got it. Okay.

Melissa: So when you pour hydrogen peroxide on a cut, if you zoomed in, if you could like do the zoom in, on your phone, onto your cut, what you'll see amongst all your blood cells and everything else is an enzyme called catalase

Jam: okay.

Melissa: And what catalase does when it finds hydrogen peroxide, which occurs naturally in our bodies.

Remember? So it needs to be gotten rid of in our bodies because you don't want that just floating around unless it's serving a purpose. It takes a hydrogen peroxide molecule. It steals one of the oxygens and spits it back out as water. So it took H2 O2 and turned it into O and H2O.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So you had two hydrogens, two oxygens, you grouped H2O together.

And that left one oxygen [00:10:00] behind. So the catalyst will take that oxygen, keep it for itself and spit out water. And then it'll take another H2O2. Do the same thing. And now it has two oxygens. Those can be bound together as O2 that exists in the air and it comes out as gas bubbles. So basically instead of the bond breaking right between those two oxygens and making two radicals, if you have hydrogen peroxide in the presence of catalase it takes hydrogen peroxide.

It takes two hydrogen peroxide molecules and turns it into two water molecules and an oxygen molecule.

Jam: Okay. Got it. So it's nice that it's there to do that. And there are fewer radicals. That there are lower chances of because of that.

Melissa: It breaks down to some safe byproducts instead of radical byproducts, which could do all kinds of crazy stuff.[00:11:00]

Jam: Right, right.

Melissa: And we've talked about catalysts before, but just. As a quick review, I guess I should've said this at the beginning, but just in case catalysts basically just facilitate reactions happening either faster or in a specific way.

Like hydrogen peroxide does not always naturally break down into water and oxygen sometimes forms those radicals. Right. So being in the presence of catalse make sure it happens the specific way that's safe for our body.

Jam: Mm.

Melissa: But also being in the presence of catalase makes this happen very quickly.

So if you have hydrogen peroxide in the presence of catalase the enzyme, one molecule of that enzyme can degrade 40 million molecules of H2O2 or hydrogen peroxide in one second.

Jam: Oh, my gosh,

Melissa: I know

Jam: that doesn't even make sense to me. I can't even imagine at the microscopic level, how that would work. Like.

Melissa: Yes. I pulled that straight. It was a direct quote out of my [00:12:00] biochemistry textbook. And I was like, I don't know how this is how they found this out. I don't know how this is true. I, I don't understand, but that's insane.

Jam: Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa: So when you pour hydrogen peroxide on your cut there's catalase all around because it already exists in your bloodstream because it's breaking down the H2O2 that occurs naturally in your body. And it will bubble because the catalase is rapidly turning hydrogen peroxide into water and O2 and the gas coming out of that cut is what's bubbling.

Jam: Right, right. That makes sense.

Melissa: And the reason people like that for wounds is because they're thinking, oh, this turns into water and oxygen. These are safe byproducts. It'll just bubble out any debris that's in the cut. And that that's good news. That's what we want, but we're not actually a hundred percent sure that that's what's happening.

So. It turns out [00:13:00] that there's some debate in the medical community about what happens when you pour hydrogen peroxide on a cut. Exactly. But there seems to be evidence that it can either damage tissues or it can interfere with the signaling process that happens when wounds are healing. So something that. I think they notice this in a specific type of fish. When that fish got a wound, initially it would spike its own hydrogen peroxide content, and then that would fall down. So they wondered is this hydrogen peroxide acting as a signaling agent too. If it's acting as a signaling agent, then if we're dousing our cut with hydrogen peroxide, that might be interfering with our signaling.

Jam: Oh, I see something that. Would naturally be happening in our body and help our body know, Hey, do this over here. Um, there's a wound over here. If we start adding a bunch more of the hydrogen peroxide, we might be messing up that process.

Melissa: [00:14:00] Right. There might be something our body doesn't know how to interpret. also been shown in other places that hydrogen peroxide unsurprisingly, because it forms radicals. Can cause damage to tissues like mucous membrane tissues. So if that's occurring, then it's possible that there are some radicals in the hydrogen peroxide that could be hurting the tissue in addition to hurting any bacteria or anything that's in there.

Right.

Jam: Right.

Melissa: So that's questionable too. Is it all. Hydrogen peroxide in its full molecule form. It's getting broken down or has some already broken down. There's already some radicals in the bottle and then those radicals are hitting our tissues and damaging them. That's a possibility.

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: So it seems like I got some mixed signals from the medical journals that I went to.

So if you're a doctor, I'd love to hear what your resources are. I couldn't find a clear reason on why. Are not recommended to [00:15:00] use hydrogen peroxide on our cuts. It was a mixture of those things, but simply that we should not use it on our cuts, but there were also some papers that were trying to leverage hydrogen peroxide and the signaling system to improve like wounds that tend not to heal.

Like some people with diabetes have wounds that have a hard time healing. So I think it can be used either way where they're trying to make dressings. With a proper amount of hydrogen peroxide, but too much hydrogen peroxide or not enough can damage things. Does that make

Jam: that makes total sense. Yeah. It's like, we are obviously. You know, really measuring probably how much we're using when we're putting on our wounds. And if there is that chance that it is messing up our signaling processes, then like we obviously, you know, aren't really taking that into account, but maybe there's a chance that having a specific amount could be very helpful in certain, in certain cases, but not just like a catch all, all wounds all the time, as much hydroxide as you can [00:16:00] get or whatever.

Melissa: Right. And for minor wounds that are going to tend to heal pretty easily and that are unlikely to get infected. It sort of not worth it for the unknown risk is basically what I've picked up on from these journal articles. It's like, well, we don't know for sure, but if it could cause damage or interfere with healing, why bother?

You can just rinse it with soap and water in that is just as effective and that's recommended across the.

Jam: Yes. Yes.

Melissa: And I will say because we can't use hydrogen peroxide or we aren't recommended to, I did ask. I looked into two sources. One's a nurse practitioner that you may know recommended that soap and water is what they say is the best care for minor wounds. And another is a, the dermatologist who got me into skincare in the first place and who cited those journal articles.

He had just a quick video where he said soap and water is recommended over hydrogen peroxide. So that's two sources that I trust who recommended soap and water over hydrogen peroxide, plus all [00:17:00] those journal articles.

Jam: Yes. That makes sense.

Melissa: So that's kind of the basics. That's why hydrogen peroxide foams up when you pour it on your wounds, and that's why hydrogen peroxide is not recommended for wounds, but I will say even. It's not recommended for wound care. It is antibacterial in the same way that benzoyl peroxide is, and it can be used safely in some situations it's just pouring it on your wounds.

Indiscriminately is not the best.

Jam: Okay. Got it. That makes total sense. It's interesting to revisit something like this that I just haven't thought much about and has sort of established itself as, you know, kind of a, a go-to for a lot of people and has obviously been for generations. So it's interesting to look under the hood and see like, should this be a go-to if, and if not, why not?

And what should we do instead? That's yeah, I love that. That's cool. That's [00:18:00] very everyday life for sure.

Melissa: And I think as some of us are like, that's what our parents did. So now we're becoming parents. So we sometimes just do what they did. So then you have to ask yourself, is this really what we should be doing with this thing?

Jam: Yeah. Yeah, that's cool.

Melissa: do you want to take a stab at explaining it back to me?

Jam: Yes. I would love to.

Okay. So. Many of us are very familiar with hydrogen peroxide or at least we feel like we are, um, we've used it. We've grown up with it, mostly on wounds and that kind of thing. And it is two oxygens bonded together and then a hydrogen on each one, the outside. So the hydrogen and oxygen and oxygen and hydrogen.

Um, and it has. Antibacterial properties and antifungal properties like benzoyl peroxide, which we talked about just a few episodes ago, really. [00:19:00] Um, which is because of the radicals that are common with hydrogen peroxide. That is kind of the side of it. That helps be antibacterial and antifungal.

Melissa: Yes so like it makes radicals, those radicals can go in cause oxidative stress and just kind of blow up cells. Like we talked about in the benzoyl peroxide episode.

Jam: right. Yeah. So they

go in,

Melissa: makes it desirable for a bacteria infected. Cut.

Jam: right? Yeah, of course. Yeah. And that's like a desire that, that makes total sense. You've got to cut or something or scrape or whatever, especially, I remember like, you know, you skin your knee outside and there's all kinds of stuff. So it's like, oh, let's clean. This let's get stuff out of there.

Melissa: Right.

Jam: typically that's when it's been in a use case for many of us growing up.

Melissa: And then it also mechanically cleans by bubbling out the gravel or whatever. So it, it can kill bacteria and it bubbles stuff out. So that's, that makes it desirable for.[00:20:00]

Jam: And so when, when we pour it on our wounds, part of the reason that it's reacting is that we have this thing already in our bodies called catalase and the, what the image that came to mind to me when you're kind of describing how catalase works with hydrogen peroxide, um, I guess I'll spit back what happened.

And then I'll say the image that came to mind is that

Melissa: Okay.

Jam: as the interacts with the hydrogen peroxide, it takes an oxygen out it, which then which then leaves two hydrogen. And one oxygen, which is H2O so then suddenly you got a molecule of water and it's holding on to an oxygen. And then it does that again with another molecular hydrogen peroxide, it takes, it takes another oxygen, and then you've got another molecule of water and then the [00:21:00] catalase sort of whatever you wanna say, releases those two oxygens.

They're now together. And they're O2, which is the common form of oxygen that we experience around. So a lot of that's happening really fast and that's creating bubbles of oxygen and it's also creating water. Um, and that's what we see when we see it bubble up in our wounds and stuff. And what kind of came to mind for me was basically like a zipper.

It doesn't, uh, explain the bubbling part, but just that, uh, It's almost like you have this universal sort of zipper, not universal, but you know, for hydroperoxide, it, goes immediately. And as soon as you introduce it, it is like unzips. All of these hydrogen separates out and has the same, you know, it obviously has the same molecules, but it separates them out.

And then you have these two separate things that [00:22:00] before were joined together kind of perfectly, um,

Melissa: So it's like, it's like one side of the zipper is made up of water and the other side is made up of oxygen. And when it's zipped up it's H2O and when it's unzipped, you have water on one side and oxygen is on the

Jam: Yes. Yes.

Melissa: Nice, And the zipper part is the catalyst that makes the combining happen or the lack of combining breakup.

Jam: I think whenever you said it happened really fast and the one, like molecule of the catalase can tear through lots of hydrogen peroxide quickly. That's kinda what I thought I was like, what's something that of just does that like separate things fast and we, you know, experience that everyday when we put a jacket on or whatever.

Um,

Melissa: a really good analogy. I like that.

Jam: there's ways that there's another idea out there and something that maybe could incorporate some of the visuals that we see actually see like the bubbles and but at the molecular level, that's kinda what I thought of, of separating those things out. Um,

Melissa: I love the molecular level. So I love that. But if, if any of our listeners have any [00:23:00] good analogies, let us know we're going to actually on next week's bonus episode, somebody sent us an analogy that's really cool to read. we'll be sharing those. So.

Jam: Nice. So that's what happens when we use it and stuff, but some of the downsides we got to talk about obviously, um, are that even before we've poured it on our wound, it is a chemical that has high likelihood of radicals, which is one of the, you know, it's not a wholly bad thing because. It also helps to be antibacterial antifungal, but it does mean that you are introducing radicals to your body to different parts of your body.

And that can cause, you know, damage and, uh, unintended, you know, consequences. It, so it's caused for sort of thinking more critically about, is this the best thing to use on a wound? Um, is there something that might be like, you know, have less radicals that could [00:24:00] do a similar thing? And, um, it's prone to that just by sitting on the shelf.

It could, it could start to break down and have radicals and stuff. So, um, and then the other thing you talked about too, is that it could, um, mess with some of the signaling processes in our bodies to help our body communicate about wounds and stuff, because our bodies do produce hydrogen peroxide and we are then adding tons of.

To a wound into that could interrupt that system. And also things it's these very basic elements like hydrogen and oxygen that could be introducing a lot of oxygen to our bloodstream more than necessary. And there's a lot of ways that it could potentially not be the best idea for a wound.

Melissa: And it's not a good idea to drink it also.

Jam: right.

Melissa: Okay. That was a really good synopsis. I really liked that. So you've earned yourself a fun [00:25:00] fact, actually,

Jam: Nice. Nice. I love fun facts.

Melissa: So the first fun fact is you should be able to do an experiment if you have hydrogen peroxide, um, where you have maybe like a fresh cut piece of potato, because a lot of plants have catalase in them.

And then like a piece of plastic or something that shouldn't have any catalase in them and pour hydrogen peroxide and see how it reacts differently. Cause the bubbles don't just form from it pouring out the way it does. If you have like carbonated soda, it happens from reacting. So that would be a fun one to do with kids.

Jam: Nice. Nice.

Melissa: And then the other thing is, so I reached out to someone who, um, has access to a medical database called UpToDate. And one thing they shared with me and I was able to find other papers that backed this up and there there'll be cited in our resources. Is that. Actually honey has been considered an appropriate treatment for wound care, partially because it has a high concentration of hydrogen peroxide, but it has a lot of other chemicals too, so they can [00:26:00] kind of work together where it's less dangerous.

This is not medical advice. So do not use honey on your wounds just because I said to but it has been used for a really long time. And I kind of love that. That goes back to this thing that we've talked about, that Western science ways of knowing are not the only way of knowing and indigenous ways of knowing things.

People figured out that putting honey on a wound made it to where it wasn't as likely to get infected. A long time before we knew what in the honey was doing And so I think that that is very, very cool and I was excited for them to share that with, with me, honey is amazing. So if you want to peruse our resources, you can find a lot of different articles on how honey has hydrogen peroxide and what it does when you use it in wound care.

And actually some things that they're trying to develop in using like medical grade, honey.

Jam: Hm.

Melissa: Amazing.

Jam: awesome. That's very cool. It's just like, I mean, it [00:27:00] makes sense that you'd be like, Hey, we have this natural substance. Let's see what we can do. Let's see what we can use it for. And we noticed like, Hey, I mean, this guy who's wound. We put the honey on, did a little better than the other guy.

Um, so, uh, there's something there, you know, it's like, you don't have to understand all the molecular level, but there's been so many generations of. Time of testing out tons of stuff just by what you have available and seeing that there's, there's some, there's something there that, um, is working. That's helping.

So

Melissa: I love it. I think it's really beautiful.

Jam: cool.

Melissa: Speaking of beautiful things, any happy things for you this week?

Jam: Yes. So there's a pretty cool thing that happened recently where my mom's birthday, uh, was a couple weeks ago. And so. We planned for my mom and my brother who live only a couple hours away to come hang out here with us for the weekend.

But then at the same [00:28:00] time, we secretly sneak iy planned. For my younger brother and his wife, and two kids who live further away in Kentucky to cash in on some points they had not used with an airline and go ahead and fly down here and surprise yes. And surprise my mom. And

Melissa: That's so cute.

Jam: yeah, so that was really cool.

So they did that and it was kind of worked out as perfectly as you could hope for a surprise like that. That is kind of complicated to pull off, but I was able to go pick them up from the airport and get back to my house. And before my mom and older brother arrived in the car and we had just enough time to kind of get their bags and stuff and kind of clear out any evidence of them being here from the like entryway and living room and stuff.

And then they hid in a room. And then I [00:29:00] talked with my mom and brother just like normal and, and kinda got brought their stuff in and, and, and chatted a little bit. And then they, uh, my department family was hiding, sent out there two and a half year old, uh, just to wander out into the living room. Um,

Melissa: Oh, that's so cute.

Jam: and they were able her, like, she understands enough to be like, they're like, Hey, can you just kind of sneak like tiptoe out there?

And so just snuck out there. And my mom, like, she was not really paying attention. You know, you wouldn't be expecting to like, you know, look for a kid walking out. And so, uh, She got all the way over to my mom. And then my mom looked up and was like, oh, what are you still doing up? Or something like that?

Like thinking,

Melissa: Like thought It was your, your son.

Jam: Yes, yes. And then, and then it registered like, oh wait, also wait, who, why, why are you here? And then,

Melissa: Wait, you're the wrong one.

Jam: yeah. And then the rest of my family came out and so it was really cool. We got a weekend of, [00:30:00] of all getting to hangout and it was, you know, really short. But it was definitely worth it and pull up the surprise.

Well, and we had nine people, including the kids packed into my house. So that was a little crazy, but yeah.

Melissa: Oh, that's really fun. Thanks for sharing about that Jam. I love hearing about cute kids hanging I love surprising people about so

Jam: Yeah. So it was definitely a fun, definitely fun. What about you what's been happening in your world?

Melissa: Well, last week I kind of shared that I was super stressed out about writing my dissertation and I still am, but. I last time we talked, I was kind of in the pit of it or a still trying to do everything like live my normal life. See my friends I'm really involved in our church. I have all these things that are going on normally and also trying to write my dissertation and meet all these deadlines.

And I basically worked every single evening and was still trying to do all my other stuff. [00:31:00] So I decided. That was not sustainable. And I reevaluated my life and I was like, okay, I have to prioritize my physical, mental, emotional health and get this work done. So I kind of gave myself permission to not plan time with people or to say, I'd love to hang out with you if we could just work together.

That's the, the only thing I can really

and be really honest about where I was. In my life. It's like, just until this is done, which should be in less than two months. I basically, I'm just doing And I got some advice from some other people. Who'd also been through it and encourage me to do the same thing.

And that really made everything feel a lot better. I haven't been having so many nightmares and I do work a lot, but it's. For a short period of time, this isn't how I'm going to live the rest of my life, but [00:32:00] it's just really helped I

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: And something else that a few people gave advice on, is it part of what makes it so stressful is not only the sheer amount of work, which that's a lot.

But also, this is a culmination of, you know, ultimately seven years of work. I, I mean, I did stop and get my master's, but that the weight of that is a lot. And you really have to give yourself time to process everything that's happening to you. So that's been really good. And part of that, of balancing my life out a little bit is I, I do make myself do some kind of physical activity every day.

So I fixed my bike and I've been biking. been really fun.

Jam: dude. That's

Melissa: There's a park right by my house. So I can just go out and do a quick few miles and get my energy antsiness out. And it's helped with my anxiety. It's helped with me not having so many nightmares. been really good.

Jam: Did that make total sense? I feel like that's so hard to balance those things, but so important to be like I do need to make room, to get lots of work [00:33:00] done, but you've got to also find a way to, to not be, um, sacrificing mental health and you know, all these things that also are important to being able to finish well, you're working you know, all these things that, and also make your life be, you know, not miserable and just stuff It's so hard to juggle all that.

Melissa: and friendship is really important to me. So I was feeling sad and guilty about like, not prioritizing that, but I think once I was able to communicate like, this is where I'm at, I'm really sorry. I'm not showing up the way I normally do, but. Um, having a really hard time that gave me the freedom. All my friends are like, that's okay.

We totally understand how can we help you. So I think that really was that gave me this sigh of relief that, oh, I can just be honest that this is really hard with myself and with them and switch my priorities for the next two months and just get it done.

Jam: People want to know where you're at. Typically, especially your friends, you know, they want to know what the real what's happening and, and they're okay [00:34:00] with the truth and, and it's helpful for most friends to know that they wouldn't, they wouldn't don't want to be like once they hear that they wouldn't be like, well, I'd want you to put me above everything else.

You know, that's like,

Melissa: definitely. But, but friends and family are important. I do believe that, but I think it's okay for a short time to reorganize your life a little bit and just get through. Sometimes it's just like

Jam: Yeah. Sometimes just have to abandon everyone in your life for a little bit, just to, I'm just getting.

Melissa: Yeah. You're like, actually I hate all of you guys until I'm done with my dissertation, but also I do have a nice coworker he's a new grad student in our lab named David. And he told me that he's been listening to chemistry for your life while he goes on runs. But he started at the very beginning. So he's listening to our lives like two years ago.

And so for David, whenever you arrive here, welcome to the future, which is now your [00:35:00] past,

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: but he's helped me out a lot as well. Just like getting some tasks around the lab done. And whenever I something slips my mind, he's been able to cover for me. So that's been really fun. And it's fun to imagine him getting here to this episode, hearing about himself.

So

Jam: Yeah, that's cool.

Melissa: So. Thanks David, for helping me out and thanks to all of my friends, for being so understanding and my coworkers and all the people have just sat near me while I worked lately. I really appreciate that. It makes me feel less lonely and it's helped me get a lot done.

Jam: Nice. Nice.

Melissa: And then also thanks to you Jam for listening and for all of our listeners, for helping. Remember why I want to get a PhD and why I love chemistry. Seriously. This is one of my favorite things that I get to do. And I'm so thankful that we. So I have the opportunity to teach y'all chemistry so frequently.

Jam: Well, thank you, Melissa, for teaching us about everyday life chemistry stuff. That's super cool. And for being willing to do that every week, and if you listen out there, have a [00:36:00] question about something everyday life that you want to know, the chemistry behind. Please reach out to us. We love y'all's ideas and questions.

Reach out to us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook @chemforyourlife. That's chem F-O-R your life to share your thoughts and ideas with us. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the costs of making. Go to ko-fi.com/chemforyourlife, or get the link in our show notes to donate the cost of a cup of coffee and keep our show going. If you're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast app and rating and writing a review on apple podcasts. That also helps us to share chemistry with even more people.

Melissa: This episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Collini and Jam Robinson references for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jam Robinson is our producer. And we'd like to give a special thanks to M. Kwapil who reviewed this episode,