129 Blue Jeans
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Melissa: [00:00:00] Hey, I'm Melissa.

Jam: I'm Jam.

Melissa: And I'm a chemist

Jam: And I'm not

Melissa: and welcome to chemistry for your life.

Jam: the podcast that helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.

Melissa: Okay. So I'm very excited about this episode today. Jam I'm always excited about them,

but

Jam: I was about to say, man,

Melissa: extra excited.

Jam: what else is new?

Melissa: Well, I learned a new thing from a chemist coworker, so that's part of why I'm so excited.

Jam: Oh, nice. Okay. Cool.

New things are cool.

Melissa: out. Yeah. New things are cool.

So shout out to Dr. Corrales for bringing this up in their class. Dr. Corrales teaches the o-chem class that I TA for this semester because I opted not to teach my own class because I'm trying to graduate.

Jam: Right, right.

Melissa: And so I get to sit and learn from Dr. Corrales twice a week, along with their students. [00:01:00] And I was so excited when they shared this tidbit of information.

Jam: Nice. Very I'm very interested. I'm intrigued.

Melissa: So Dr. Corrales learned from an article from chemistry and engineering news, that blue jeans like denim that's visually a blue to our eyes is actually dyed yellow, not blue.

Jam: Okay. Um,

Melissa: There's so,

much chemistry behind.

Jam: so I don't know about that. I'm thinking, did you, could you ask Dr. Corrales like, are you sure?

Melissa: I did one better. And I looked at Dr. Corrales's resources and they are sure. So don't worry.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So they're dyed yellow, but then they turn blue quickly when they're exposed to the air.

Jam: Interesting. Okay.

Melissa: So you get three chemistry lessons. [00:02:00] And actually, I think you've learned some about all of these chemistry lessons before, but you'll get to revisit three chemistry lessons that tie into what happens here.

Jam: Okay. Interesting.

Melissa: And then they have a little analogy that I came up with, but I'm hoping you can come up with a better one.

Jam: Or a dumber one. Whichever adjective is more

Melissa: No, definitely a better one. I think you'd be able to do a better one.

Jam: Okay. Okay. I'll try my best.

Melissa: Lesson number one is like dissolves like

so similar three things interact with similar things molecularly

Jam: Okay.

Definitely. Remember you saying that for sure. Like

Melissa: Yes.

Jam: multiple times.

Melissa: And your, probably your teacher said that too, in your high school chemistry class.

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: And then two, color comes from the way molecules absorb energy. And that is dependent on the way those molecules are structured.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: Okay.

And then three, oxidation and reduction in chemistry is all about [00:03:00] increasing bonds to oxygen or decreasing bonds to oxygen.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: It's a little bit more complicated than that, but that's a simple enough definition for this conversation. So those are the three main lessons. So that's an overview of what you're going to learn. So now let's go kind of in depth on each one.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So one like dissolves, like this has to do with the polarity of your molecule. Right. So we've talked about this all the way back in like the second episode where we talked about geckos on walls, some molecules are polar And some molecules are non-polar. And when we talk about polarity in chemistry, it's all about the distribution of electrons. So if you have a concentration of electrons in one area, Your molecule, there's going to be a partial negative there because electrons are negative, in the absence of electrons on the other side, will give you a partial positive.

Jam: And we talked about this even back to the first episode with like water and soap [00:04:00] and grease and fat and lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa: Oh yeah, you're Right, We talked about that in the very first episode. So you can go back and listen to those. Slightly more in depth, but just as a brief overview. So there are molecules that are polar and molecules that are non-polar, molecules where the electrons are evenly distributed and molecules where the electrons are not quite evenly distributed.

And so there's partial positive and negative or poles

And you've seen this in your everyday life because everyone has seen oil and water, not mixed together.

Jam: Right, right.

Melissa: And if you haven't go into your kitchen and get a bowl of oil or a bowl of water and pour the other one on top. So oil likes oil, water likes water, but oil doesn't like water because oil is non-polar and water is polar.

Jam: Got it.

Melissa: So that's lesson one.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: Okay. Lesson two is color comes from the way [00:05:00] that molecule was absorbed energy, specifically, light energy

And you're actually going to get to go in depth on this, this upcoming week when we rebroadcast the episode on bleach and how bleach works.

Jam: Nice.

Melissa: So I'll give you a quick overview of that, but it will be better if you go listen to that episode.

Jam: Got it.

Melissa: So the way that molecules are structured, allows them to absorb different amounts of energy. And just because it so happens that molecules that have a lot of alternating double bonds, tend to absorb energy in the visible region of light, which means we can see the light that they reflect back as color.

Jam: Right, right.

Melissa: So typically things that are highly colored like reds, greens, blues, even some of yellows have a lot of alternating, double bonds. So. [00:06:00] That's something to note, but it also is important to note that the way those alternating double bonds distribute electrons means that they are usually also not polar.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: Okay. So that's lesson two is that color comes from the way molecules absorb energy. That's dependent on the way the molecules are structured. And the way that they're structured also means that they're usually not polar.

Jam: Got it. Got it.

Melissa: Due to these alternating double bonds, they kind of create a highway where the electrons can be shared really evenly.

Jam: Got it. Yeah. So they're not concentrated in one sort of side of the, of a molecule more than another. They move about freely.

Melissa: Right. And that characteristic also means that they tend to absorb light in this region. That's visible to us.

Jam: Got it. Okay.

Melissa: Okay.

Now your third lesson is about oxidation and reduction in organic chemistry.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: [00:07:00] We've talked about redox reactions in two settings. We've talked about them when you think of like rust and how oxidation and reduction occur in metals.

But we also talked about that in terms of making more or fewer bonds to oxygen.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: tend to think of it as an organic chemist. I think of oxidation reduction less as just how the electrons are exchanged, which is more the rust type of way of thinking about it. And instead I think about, are we increasing bonds to oxygen or decreasing bonds to oxygen?

So, or, you know, there's a broader definition, more electro negative atoms, get more bonds. That's oxidation, but that's more complicated than you need to know for this episode.

So oftentimes we'll see this in organic chemistry as a group like alcohol, which has one bond between carbon and oxygen being oxidized [00:08:00] to something called a ketone, which has a double bond between carbon and oxygen. There are those double bonds between carbon and oxygen present in indigo dye that goes on jeans.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: Okay.

But if you wanted to reduce it, you would take it from the double bond between the carbon and oxygen to a single bond between carbon and oxygen known as an alcohol.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: Okay.

So those are your three lessons.

One is like dissolves, like, so polar likes non-polar. Two is color comes from the way molecules, absorb energy that has to do with their structure. And usually because of their color in their structure, they're also non-polar

Jam: Right,

Melissa: and three, you can oxidize and reduce molecules by adding more bond stocks region, or taking away bonds to oxygen.

[00:09:00] And there are carbons with two bond stocks didn't present in our indigo dye.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: Okay. So now I'm going to tell you how all three of these come

together.

Jam: Sweet. I'm very curious.

Melissa: Okay.

So indigo dye is non-polar because of its structure and the way its electrons all share these nice alternating double bonds.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So it won't dissolve in water, which means you can't easily dye your jeans in it.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So we use a reducing agent, which reduces those carbon double-bond to oxygen's present in indigo dye down to an alcohol, which interrupts the highway of double bonds. These alternate in double bonds that let all the electrons spread evenly. It interrupts that flow in, create some more polar sites in the [00:10:00] molecule.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: You can make that even more polar by putting it in a basic environment, but that's a different lesson for a different day. I just want people who know chemistry a little bit more to know that you also can put these indigo dyes in a basic environment and it will deprotonate the alcohol. But if that didn't make sense to you, just focus on the fact that we can use a molecule to do a chemical reaction, to reduce our double bonds, to oxygen, to single bonds, to oxygen, which interrupts the flow of electrons, creating polar sites in our molecule.

And that means that it can interact with water now.

Jam: Okay. Which is what we want.

Melissa: Which is what we want.

but it also means that we've changed the structure of the molecule itself. So it is actually now a different molecule that is no longer blue, but yellow.

Jam: Uh, we messed with stuff [00:11:00] that affects the way it takes an energy or district, in, in the region of visual light. And so it stops looking the same.

Melissa: Exactly. We've changed the way that it absorbs energy by changing bonds. So now it doesn't look the same to us.

Jam: That's weird.

Melissa: So it's turns yellow and it's now in the water, in this basic watery environment. And then you dye your jeans that color. So it's yellow.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: And then you take it out and it gets exposed to air, which has oxygen in it, which is an oxidizing agent. So the molecules, the dye molecules then become oxidized. Again.

They returned back to their original state, which is a nice indigo color.

Jam: Interesting, huh.

Melissa: And that is how you jeans get dyed yellow [00:12:00] to become blue jeans.

Jam: Wow. So in that that's true across the board, like most like. Blue Jean dying in manufacturing places, um, have a stage where they're yellow for a bit.

Melissa: I think so. That's why I only could find two resources on this. They're both from the American chemical society. So I think industry secrets, you know, sometimes kind of keep it close to their chest, but they said that 95% of synthetic indigo dye that will need to be reduced in order to be dissolved in water.

Is that yellow color? It should be that we're reduced state. That then is oxidized

Jam: Wow, man. That's weird. That is so interesting. It's like we're trying to solve this one problem. Which is just like, we got to get this dye in the water. So we can actually have a big VAT of it or whatever, so that we can dye these jeans, but like the solution to it also changes the color.

Like, obviously they're not trying [00:13:00] to change the color. That's not their goal, but you're when you're messing with stuff under the hood, sometimes it has consequences like that, or it changes the color temporarily. That's crazy, dude. That's so strange.

Melissa: It also really informs this, like, you know, the function of the molecule and the way we perceive the molecule has everything to do with the bonds And the way it's structured.

Jam: Yeah. Yeah,

Melissa: which as a chemist, I think about that all the time. So when I saw this, I was like that wouldn't be a big deal for me to think about, but I bet that's crazy for other people to think about.

Jam: Totally. And in our other episodes where we've talked about color and, you know, energy being absorbed in all that stuff and things being. Like the, in the visible range of light and all that stuff. It there've been a couple of times in the episodes where I've kind of gotten a little tripped out if I like.

I mean like, but so it's just how we see it in the way the [00:14:00] waves, the

frequency of the it's just man, it's very trippy quickly, especially for people like me, who don't think about it all the time.

Melissa: Well, even for me, it's hard. There are times I'm trying to explain color and I get a little bit too far in it. And I'm like, does any of this make sense? Why is the world the way it is? You know?

so so I tried to come up with an analogy to help us think about this. And I think because I just watched Encanto, the only thing I could come up with was Mulan.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So Mulan wanted to go fight in the army. right.

But she didn't fit in with the army. So she changed herself. She changed the structure of her attitude and her appearance and everything to fit in with the boys in the army.

Jam: right.

Melissa: But after she became accepted there slowly, she did sort of [00:15:00] start to revert to her natural state.

And it was a little bit more jarring, Right.

Because she got kicked out of the army eventually when they

discovered or whatever, but, but, That is how I think of the dye. It, we change it. So it fits in and once it's there and it's infiltrated the water, it gets stuck to it. Bonds really is actually, I think what happens. that's a whole other episode to your denim and it's there in its undercover form. But as the light hits it, it becomes exposed for what it really is, which. Indigo dye. It's not just exposed, it's physically changed and then changed back. But that was the best thing I could come up with. I thought maybe you

could

Jam: No, that's good. I get it. I get it. And that, that really makes sense. And what's fine. In the case of the dye, the indigo dye is that it's already done the job it needs to do. And in Mulan hadn't quite gotten that far yet, I guess, but like,

Melissa: that's

Jam: but it's kind of [00:16:00] cool that in the case of dying denim, it's like, oh, it's already gotten in there.

It's become part of the jeans, it has changed the color of the jeans. jeans are denim has been out of cotton. So it's. Some very light color originally. And so it's already done that. It's integrated itself in, and then it's okay if it turns it back, because guess what mission accomplished.

Melissa: Mission accomplished. It's it's changed the color of the denim forever. And now I can oxidize to become the blue

color. We

Jam: That, that analogy helps. And the only thing I can think of that comes to mind for me is something that's just very similar. It's not like a hugely different way of understanding, but just like the classic. You know, Trojan horse myth sort of deal is just hiding inside of something else like that.

Like, oh, Hey, here's just a big old wooden horse, nothing to see here. It's like, okay, cool, come on in. Then in that case, let's just bring this wooden horse inside of our castle. And then once they're in, then they go right [00:17:00] back, you know, come back, come out of it and our soldiers and do what they came to do or whatever.

That's probably not a perfect analogy in that case because they're literally hiding inside of something else. At the molecular level is not what's happening. It's not like it's disguising itself inside of like some sort of larger molecule or whatever,

Melissa: yeah, That's more of like what happened with the, when we talked about air fresheners and how they take in the odorous molecule. yeah,

Cause it's literally changing.

Jam: yeah,

Melissa: And then changing back, it's undergoing a chemical reaction to turn yellow doing the deal and then undergoing a chemical reaction back. But, but just like rust, that's what it wants to do.

It's more stable in the oxidized form. So once it's blue, again,

it'll stay blue.

Jam: That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. I don't know if I can come up with a different, a better analogy like that one really works.

Melissa: Well then do you want to just try to explain those three major concepts?

Jam: Yes. So the first concept [00:18:00] is like dissolves, like, and that's basically the beginning of this whole thing as well, because at the start, the indigo dye in the water are not like

Melissa: Exactly.

Jam: like, not even like at that point, you know what I mean? And

Melissa: yeah. I know exactly like I know exactly what you mean.

Jam: yeah. And so, um, we have to try to figure out how to make them like, and to be more specific for anyone who's like annoyed.

And wants us to use real words. Um, the indigo dye is non-polar to start correct.

Melissa: Yes. It's non-polar Like oil.

Jam: oil

and the water is like water, which is polar. And, and so they at the moment cannot mix, but that is essential to end up to dye these, these blue jeans so

Melissa: Right.

Jam: then the chemists, scheming, and [00:19:00] plotting, and trying to figure out a way to solve this problem. We're like, okay. Is there a way we could make the indigo dye to be polar for a little bit temporarily?

So it could integrate with the, the water and become a big old vat of blueness for us to throw these pants into. And so then the second one has to do with the interesting and very complex.

Topic of just how light even works and how we even see it and perceive it, which has everything to do with the bonds of whatever entrepre talking about, especially in the case of having a really good way for electrons to move throughout and absorb energy. Well, and, um, what's the word then? Reflect [00:20:00] or, or, um,

Melissa: Yeah, so

they, the light, a certain amount of light is absorbed and anything else is reflected back. So that's where we see the color. So, and these alternating double bonds that have an even distribution of electrons, they have, they're very stable until it takes a specific amount of light for those electrons to go to the excited state, that's where they absorb energy.

So that whole thing is kind of complicated,

Jam: so

Melissa: but they absorb an amount and

reflect the

rest

Jam: this, and so in the case of the indigo dye, it has a lot of alternating, double bonds to start. And it is absorbing light and it'll reflecting, um, this very strong blue, the wavelength of what it's reflecting is this very deep blue color. And so it's all that, what we see is all tied up in also the [00:21:00] molecular side of it, um, which is also tied into the fact that it is nonpolar

it is it, that's why it's blue. And so the problem there is that, okay, we want to integrate this with the water, but not only does it not want integrate with the water because it's non-polar but also the reason it's blue is because it's non-polar those, the color and the, all that stuff is all connected.

And so

Melissa: form, the color, the structure, the, yeah, the ability to interact with other molecules. Those are all tied intricately together.

Jam: And so then the third concept where they have to start these, you know, hypothetical, I mean, they're real, but I don't know who they are. Chemists who are coming up with this stuff somewhere.

Melissa: I don't know who came up with this stuff.

Jam: Were like, let's mess with the bonds to oxygen and mess with. Um, the polarity, the non polarity of this indigo [00:22:00] dye.

And that's where we're getting to content number three, which is that too. Um, if we increase or decrease the bonds to oxygen atoms, um, we can reduce, or what's the opposite of reduce.

Melissa: Oxidize

Jam: Reduce or oxidize something. And so what they do, I might be forgetting this. W what did they introduce to,

Melissa: It's known as a reducing agent. So it's just something that's good. Uh, breaking the bonds between carbons and oxygens and adding in

hydrogens instead.

Jam: Okay. That part either.

Melissa: So it's usually something with a lot of

hydrogens.

Jam: So they introduce something that is really good at that a little secret agent or a reducing agent. And,

Melissa: Yeah.

Jam: and so it all these [00:23:00] really good bonds to oxygen that are happening, get disrupted, you know, broken or redirected or whatever, because they've introduced something that takes a lot of them or breaks a lot of them or...

Melissa: Yeah, it. just will break them. So if there's a carbon with two bonds to oxygen, it turns it to a carbon with one bond oxygen. So it reduces the number of bonds to that oxygen, but just adding hydrogens in stuff.

Jam: Got it.

Melissa: It's similar to the hydrogenation reaction. We talked about way, way back in like episode four.

Jam: Got it. So as it's happening, imagine if you can, at this like ways zoomed in level, this. Reducing agent is added. And so the bonds to oxygen start going to from double to single, and this highway [00:24:00] that allows electrons to, to move about and be distributed very well slowly starts getting disrupted and changed.

And now there's all these single bonds. And so slowly, um, if we could, you know, sort of watch it or something, it may happen all at once who

Melissa: if he could slow down and watch it at a molecular level, if you could shrink yourself down and slow down time.

Jam: Then it's also,

Melissa: My dream by the way is just shrink down to the molecular level and watch it all happen. That's my

Jam: dream.

That'd be awesome. Very miss Frizzle. Um,

Melissa: Oh my gosh. Yes, that is it. I want to be Ms. Frizzle on the magic school bus And go down to the molecular level.

Jam: And then, because we're starting to mess with stuff that affects how it absorbs energy, absorbs light, reflects light and stuff. This indigo dye stops being blue and starts being yellow.

Melissa: That's right.

That's right.

Jam: but then [00:25:00] it also has become polar has like polar sites. It's not this polar dye. We once knew, and now it can be mixed with water and be... We can create these large vats to dye all of our pants and stuff,

Melissa: Yup.

Jam: we, it seems for a bit that we were dying them yellow because.

Melissa: Yeah. you are dying them yellow.. What the heck? We're trying to get these blue.

Jam: And I guess baked into this, you just kind of said this earlier, but basically they would have to be at the moment, not exposed to a lot of oxygen while they're being dyed correct.

Melissa: Well, I think if there. because usually it's a solution with the oxidizing agent and it's in a basic environment and the water's there. So I don't think it can be reduced back in the situation like the. Things that make it go yellow are still there in the solution. Yeah. So I think they probably [00:26:00] take it out, rinse all that stuff off and then it goes, then it gets exposed to the oxygen and in an environment where that does some

damage.

Jam: Okay. Got it. So these pants are dyed yellow. And then once we remove them from the situation we've already done what we needed to, we, we got the dye in the water that we got the pants in the water and the dye, we got the dye in the pants,

got the pants. Now we can get the pants out of all that mess that we've just

Melissa: Uh huh.

Jam: and get all the chemical stuff off, all the extra dye, all the base all the reducing agent stuff off the pants.

And then. The double bonds to oxygen start to be able to come back together.

Melissa: Yes, because oxygen in the air is an oxidizing agent.

Jam: Yeah. Which makes sense. Word wise, wording wise, it seems like oxygen should be an oxidizing agent and if not, then somebody messed up when they're naming [00:27:00] stuff.

Melissa: Yeah. Well, people mess up in a lot of ways in naming, but this one is one that makes sense.

Jam: Cool. then finally our blue jeans are blue

Melissa: Yup.

Jam: and all is right in the world. Once again,

Melissa: that's it. You did it.

Good job.

Jam: That's kind of tough. I mean that one, there being so many lessons, obviously a lot of our episodes have multiple chemistry things at play because that's just how real life is. But this having three things, especially some of the hard ones that is like, you know, bonds and light and energy and stuff.

It's kind of trippy.

Melissa: it is. You have to have a good foundational knowledge to understand why this happens. So for organic chemistry, students who have. They're organic chemistry two students. So they've been in three semesters of college level chemistry. We could show them that and they understood what was happening But then I was thinking about boiling it down and I realized that we were going to have to go more but [00:28:00] I thought it was worth it. And I think it's a fun episode. episode.

Jam: That's definitely cool. Definitely fun and challenging. There could be some folks. If this is the first episode you've ever listened to, it might feel like, man, they're all this hard. And it's like, definitely not.

Melissa: Definitely not.

Jam: And you, if you're somebody who knows, like Melissa just saying, who knows a lot of organic again, we're getting chemistry already.

You might be like, this is easy. It's cakewalk, but.

Melissa: I don't know. I still think it's hard even after doing organic chemistry. For what, 10 years. It's still difficult for me to think through all the, all of the aspects of color and how changing, just like a few bonds can totally change the color of a molecule. And what that does to the energy that absorbs it reflects that. Yeah. That's still that's can still confused. Even someone who's been doing it a long time.

Jam: Yeah. Okay, cool.

Melissa: so I don't think anyone will think it's a cakewalk per se.

Yeah.

All right. [00:29:00] Great. Well, I thought that was really fun. I don't have any fun facts for you this week. That was my whole fun fact for you. But I am wondering if you had anything fun happened to you? Cause I feel like I haven't seen you lately, so what's going on in your life?

Jam: Yeah. I had a somewhat fun thing. You may have your own version of too, but, um, last week, many people across the U S were in a similar situation where we had varying amounts of snow hit, like basically almost half the us all at once, which is kind of nuts. But, um, it was kind of cool because my son last time, this happened a year ago was only about seven months old or so.

And was able to recognize that snow is different and be kind of like, this is interesting and stuff, but this time around of course, way more interested, way more able to like actually enjoy the snow than he was last time. And so we, that [00:30:00] was a lot of fun. So we went out and kind of stomped around in the snow with him on the two days of snow we had and just got to watch him be fascinated by it.

And be interested in the fact that it like makes footprints and everything looks really different. And it's kind of fun for the second day when it kind of refreezes a little bit how, like when you step it kind of like crunches in a little bit more, you know,

it's like just more, more of a crispy kind of crunchy snow out there.

And, um, it was a lot of fun. We had to kind of improvise a little bit to get good going out and playing in the snow clothes on him. I didn't really have that. Um, we hadn't needed it so far much. I mean, in Texas, the times it snows are so few that the idea of being like, let me get some really good snow clothes for my, like one year old or whatever.

Melissa: There's not going to be this size again in like two weeks.

Jam: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:00] Every time it snows, he's not going to be the same size as he was last time we had stuff so, and how could we ever know, like, how could we predict what, like, when it's going to snow, what size is it going to be? So, anyway, we, but it was a lot of fun. We improvised and went out and stomped around and, and, um, it's just cool, you know, to see, see him experience something that he has not experienced and experienced, like watching, be curious and all that stuff.

Anyway.

Melissa: And I saw some of those pictures of him staring out the window and pointing at the snow. And it was really cute.

Jam: While I was still falling we kept he kept doing that almost like he thought, like, we hadn't really seen it or like he, like, I guess the fact that we weren't like mind blown by, it was kind of confusing him. And so he was like, guys, look out there. there's stuff falling from the sky and it's getting everywhere.

Melissa: Yeah.

it was pretty cute. I felt similarly I was very excited about the snow day, but actually what I'm going to talk about [00:32:00] is not my version of that.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: Mine is actually kind of like more of a bummer, but I feel like it's good to share all parts of our lives. And mostly we focus on the fun stuff, but I want people to know, you know, some of what it really feels like to be a chemist day in, day out.

So I've been working on my PhD for seven years and here we are. We're at the end. Maybe it's six years. I don't know. I lose track. I think maybe it's six. I started in 2015. It's 2022. We're nearing the seven year mark. And. I'm supposed to graduate at the end of this semester. I have, um, you know, a deadline to where I need to turn in my dissertation, but that requires a lot of writing.

And it's just been really hard lately. It's been hard to get the motivation to do it. It's scary to come up on the end of doing something that you've been working on for so long. Like what, what am I going to do next? I mean, I have a lot of ideas and I'm [00:33:00] excited about what may happen next. It's also just a really big change.

And so the, the mental work of getting progress made is difficult. And I'm really thankful because I have a really good team supporting me. I have an incredible boss of two incredible bosses. I have, you know, a great husband, great friends, great family, but it has just been a little hard lately to work on that.

And it's been really consuming my brain. So that's the biggest thing that's been going on for

me.

Like.

Jam: dang, man. That's tough, but I get it. I mean, I get what you're saying. It's like, it's good to give a realistic picture. And my guess would be, I mean, I would be surprised if. Most people working at their PhD in all kinds of fields, uh, would not be like, I've totally felt exactly that way multiple times.

Melissa: Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. And I've been lucky with this one. It hasn't been there. Hasn't been as much pressure to get stuff [00:34:00] done in a certain amount of time. that's just not how my team now really functions.

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: Um, but there's a deadline that's imposed outside of all of us, you know, so that, that pressure being there.

But I do think it's really normal.

and I have great people to help me cope with it. And I'm really thankful to all of them, but I just wanted to share that that's, what's been, that really is what's been going on in my mind most of the time lately. And I just wanted to, um, I guess tell our listeners, that's kind of what's happening

so, but this, this part of it stays fun and refreshing, and it is always nice to hear from our listeners. We got that really nice message from Emily C. Last a few weeks ago. And I was like, oh, this is why I'm doing it. You know, it helps me stay encouraged and excited about finishing up and getting to focus more on science communication. So,

Jam: yeah, absolutely.

Melissa: [00:35:00] so that's it. That's what's going on with me.

Jam: Sweet. I mean, so we're kind of like, there's so used to like languages normally in my head is like, cool. That was fun. Or that sounds fun. Or, you know?

Melissa: Yeah,

I just was like, actually it is terrible. No, it's not terrible. It still is very exciting news that I'm this close, like I'm in the final stretch and this is really normal for the final stretch. So it's both exciting and annoying.

Jam: yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

Melissa: But also, I do want to shout out one more time, Dr. Corrales for, um, one being one of those amazing support systems in my life. But also to coming up with this episode idea, this was so such a good idea, and I'm really

thankful for it.

Jam: Yeah, definitely. And if you out there listener have an idea or a question or something you've heard about or something you always just kind of wondered about that could be chemistry. Please let us know. We'd love to hear your ideas or your questions. So you can share this with us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook [00:36:00] @chemforyourlife

that's chem F-O-R your life to share your thoughts and ideas with us. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the costs of making it go to ko-fi.com/chemforyourlife. Or click the link in our show notes to donate the cost of a cup of coffee. If you're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast app.

Or rating and writing a review on apple podcasts That also helps us to share chemistry with even more people.

Melissa: this episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Collini and Jam Robinson references for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jam Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to A Collini and S Navarro who reviewed this episode.