What’s really happening when our hair gets damaged?
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:And I'm Jim.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to Chemistry For Your Life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Jim, how are you doing this week?
Jam:I'm doing really great. How about you?
Melissa:I'm doing good. I realized, though, I forgot to mention last week
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:That the idea for my curly hair show came tangentially from Vianette. So Our friend, friend of the show
Jam:Yes. Friend of the show.
Melissa:Vianette said that she was interested in cosmetic chemistry Uh-huh. A long time ago. And this isn't exactly cosmetic chemistry, but I did have the idea from that conversation.
Jam:So Is Vienna a curly girl?
Melissa:Vianette is a curly girl.
Jam:So this one's that one was for you, Vianette.
Melissa:That one was for you, and Vianette was very hyped when she She sent me a long list of questions. Uh-huh. She's very, very hyped about that episode. So and then I realized I didn't even shout her out.
Jam:I remember she's probably the person I've heard talk about curly stuff the most.
Melissa:Oh, yeah. She's a big proponent of the curly girl method. She's all on the curly girl, read it, says read the handbook. She's very with it. Okay.
Melissa:Let's jump right in.
Jam:I'm ready. Let's do it.
Melissa:Last week, we talked about disulfide bonds.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:The bonds between 2 sulfurs that form the bend in curly hair. Uh-huh. So that's important about hair.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That is a piece that holds hair together.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:It's part of the structural integrity of the hair. Mhmm. But there's more to hair than just disulfide bonds. Mhmm. There are a lot of intermolecular forces.
Jam:Oh, here they show up again.
Melissa:They're back. I told you they were gonna be in everything.
Jam:These midichlorians are in everything.
Melissa:Have you seen that episode of Parks and Rec where they Check the lady by saying there's a midichlorian count in the soil.
Jam:No. It's okay. Oh, gosh. This What an infamous addition to the Star Wars universe. When they did that, it's like gosh.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:So anyway.
Melissa:Well, Parks and Rec. Someone was hiding her email, and they pretended to report on the midichlorian count in the soil. And the lady took it hook, Gline and sinker.
Jam:It does sound like a real thing. I mean, because of chlor. It sounds like chlorine. Yeah. So everything sounds normal in it.
Jam:So
Melissa:I mean, not to me, but okay.
Jam:Well yeah. I mean I mean, in an email or to layperson, it's like, oh, thanks.
Melissa:So not just any old intermolecular forces, although I'm sure all of are at play between the structures and proteins.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:But there is our special favorite kind, my favorite kind, I guess.
Jam:Your favorite kind?
Melissa:Intermolecular force known as hydrogen bonding.
Jam:That's your favorite? I didn't know that. That's the strongest one. Right?
Melissa:I think so. Just because it's in everything.
Jam:I have dispersion because of the geckos.
Melissa:That's true.
Jam:That just is, like, kinda cool. But so hydrogen's the strongest?
Melissa:Hydrogen's the strongest, and it is present in our hair because there are Hydrogen's bonded to nitrogen, oxygen, fluorine, which makes it available for hydrogen bonding.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And hair is porous. Okay. It means it's it's semipermeable. Water can get into the strands of hair that we have.
Jam:That makes sense In terms of our, like, showering and stuff like that, it's
Melissa:not like it just
Jam:the water does stay in there.
Melissa:Mhmm. The water goes in. It doesn't just bounce off.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Now remember, hydrogen bonding, though, also isn't just a bond between 2 atoms. It's not a true bond. It's like an interaction between 2 molecules Mhmm. That's very brief. It's the strongest of all the intermolecular forces, but intermolecular forces are not bonds.
Jam:Right. Right. Right.
Melissa:So compared to those disulfide bonds that were really strong. Mhmm. These intermolecular forces, hydrogen bonds are relatively weaker than a disulfide bond.
Jam:Oh, that's interesting.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Because it's not a bond.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:So legit bond is just gonna be stronger than a not legit bond.
Melissa:Oh, yeah.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:A 100% of the time. I don't know. A 100% is a bold thing to say. Yeah. That's pretty bold as well.
Jam:I'm gonna walk
Melissa:that back.
Jam:At 99, something like that.
Melissa:In any instance I can currently call to my mind, a real true bond is stronger than an intermolecular force.
Jam:Okay. Got it.
Melissa:So the way that water is absorbed into your hair as it goes into those pores, it's actually doing the hydrogen bonding because Water has hydrogen bonding possible because it's hydrogen bonded to oxygen. Mhmm. It can hydrogen bond with the proteins in your hair.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:So the oxygen and water can form intermolecular forces with the hydrogens and the proteins that make up your hair. Mhmm. The polar molecules like nitrogen In the amino acids of your proteins of your hair could maybe form intermolecular forces with the hydrogens in the water. So there Is hydrogen bonding going on between water and the proteins that make up your hair?
Jam:Oh, wow. That's weird. Mhmm. I wouldn't have thought it would be like that. I just think it yep.
Jam:Your my hair's wet.
Melissa:But what is we talked about things getting wet were Intermolecular forces. Yeah. Yeah. And if there's no way for the molecules to interact, then it's waterproof.
Jam:Right. So, yeah, they're interacting for sure.
Melissa:Mhmm. Okay.
Jam:That's weird.
Melissa:Mhmm. So, you know, when you add water to your hair, it does get a little bit more flexible. Mhmm.
Jam:But it
Melissa:doesn't say styled very well when it's wet.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Right? All that makes sense. All that is because Water molecules in your hair are disrupting whatever hydrogen bonding is taking place between the proteins of the hair itself.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So we've got our disulfide bonds that are true bonds that are really Super tight holding hair in place. It gives it its natural shape that doesn't go away, really.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And then we have hydrogen bonds that are more temporary
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That are weaker intermolecular forces that can be impacted and manipulated more easily. Okay. Both of those keep our hair strands together Mhmm. And have everything to do with styling Mhmm. Your hair.
Jam:That is crazy.
Melissa:It is crazy.
Jam:It's just so much deeper than, like I mean, because everything we talk about, basically. But I think hair just feels like such an everyday deal, that I wouldn't have even thought to put in the chemistry category in the 1st place. Like, that's why I think it's labeled a bit like, woah. More so than some other things because, like, carbonated water or cooking something
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Or soap. Those all to me, like, are already, like, oh, yeah. There's probably chemistry for sure. Yeah. But I'm just a little bit like, oh, yeah.
Jam:Dang it. Hair is Chemistry. Hair products, obviously. Chemistry.
Melissa:If you get down into it, everything is made up of atoms, and Then that means that everything is Mhmm. Chemistry.
Jam:How did you guys get atoms into everything, by the way? I haven't really figured that out yet.
Melissa:Super good. Wow. And we have the secret society that does that.
Jam:Does that before? Yeah.
Melissa:Mhmm. Wow. Yeah. This is the
Jam:kind of stuff the government does not want us to know.
Melissa:Okay. Back to reality. So if we're going to heat style your hair
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Even when your hair feels dry, there's still some water molecules in it. That's just the name of the game. Okay. When you heat style your hair
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:You are using heat to evaporate those water molecules Mhmm. And giving your hair an opportunity to form intermolecular forces, hydrogen bonds, between New parts of your hair.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So by heating it, you're disrupting the hydrogen bonding that's taking place between the water in your hair Mhmm. And allowing new bonds to form, hydrogen bonds to form temporarily doing different parts of your hair, giving it a different shape than it would normally take.
Jam:That is crazy. And so is that why, like, say you spend a lot of time doing something with your hair with, like, you're either curling it or you're straightening it.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And then you go outside. And if it's really humid, it undoes what you just did.
Melissa:A 100%.
Jam:That's crazy.
Melissa:Water molecules are coming back in and disrupting the hydrogen bonds that you forced into place with your heat styling
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And Taking your hair back to the way it was before.
Jam:They're like, some hair that doesn't have hydrogen Yes. Bond going on. Doesn't
Melissa:have water in it. Yeah.
Jam:It doesn't have water in it. We're bunch of water hanging out in the air.
Melissa:Mhmm. And
Jam:it's like, like flies to a barbecue.
Melissa:Into the permeable parts of your hair. Yeah. 100%. That's exactly what happens.
Jam:That's interesting. I did not know that.
Melissa:And that's why a shower messes up Pete's styling too.
Jam:Right. Which that makes sense. I mean, we're used to doing that on purpose sometimes to, like, reset.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:But then it makes sense. It's like, oh, you're introducing A bunch of water.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:It's just gonna kinda reset whatever you did.
Melissa:And it goes back to having hydrogen bonds between the water and the hair.
Jam:Yeah. Wow.
Melissa:Amazing. Right?
Jam:That's crazy.
Melissa:My mind was blown. I didn't know this. I found this out last week. There was a really cool video Mhmm. On the American Chemical Society website that Explained it in a in a few upsides where I learned what I'm about to teach you about perms and how I was like, woah.
Melissa:I've been Currently, my hair burst so long, and it never even occurred to me to ask why water makes it be frizzy because you just know that it does. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah.
Jam:You just know yeah. These things, we We know what they do. Not that we know why. We just know that that a put the equals c, and so we just have known that forever. And so we're just content with not even knowing what a and b are.
Jam:Yeah. We're just, like, know that it equals c. My wife and I both have really fine Straight hair?
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:One thing we both have a problem with is that styling it is just really hard. It seems like it doesn't take much for the style thing we've tried to do, like, might just like some hair product or whatever, but, and might try to straighten or curl or whatever. It just doesn't take much for it to just get undone. And I wondered if if it's because the strands of hair themselves are a lot Finer to some degree? Yeah.
Jam:And maybe it's just really easy for the hydrogen bonding to happen again with some moisture in the air Yeah. And just Tape back over and undo what we just did.
Melissa:Maybe so.
Jam:That's like a little bit of, like, layman's science kinda thing, but we both have the same problem, and our hair is really similar.
Melissa:Yeah. I wonder too. Sometimes people say dirty hair will hold that better. Mhmm. And I wonder if it's because it's almost a layer that's sort of between you and the Hydrogen or the water coming in and reforming the hydrogen bonds it wants to.
Jam:I only wash my hair, like, every 6 days or so. And the last
Melissa:insane.
Jam:Yeah. The last day He's always the best.
Melissa:Do you shower more than that? Oh, yeah. Just wanted everyone to know that you weren't great.
Jam:That code has gone unsaid. I shower every day. I just only wash my hair With, like, a shampoo meaning Mhmm. Every 6 days or so.
Melissa:Do you let water get in it every time you shower? Yeah. So, basically, you just don't use shampoo except once every
Jam:Mhmm. Yeah.
Melissa:Some curly girls only use conditioner to wash their hair. It's called co washing.
Jam:Yeah. And, actually, you're not really supposed to I've read that, originally, Conditioner and shampoo weren't, like, intended to be used in tandem like we do. Like, in one sitting, we're like, shampoo and conditioner. Alright. And that's, like, not really why those was initially created.
Jam:I don't really know the history of it,
Melissa:but either.
Jam:I've that's what I've heard.
Melissa:We can well, if there's anyone out there who knows history of shampoo, we'd love to hear from you. Yeah. Teachers, so we don't know.
Jam:And tell us why it's called shampoo. Conditioner makes sense shampoo. Where the heck did that word come from?
Melissa:That's a great question. Okay. Back into it. This is this is a real tangent key episode. So that's how heat styling works, and that's why it's only temporary.
Melissa:So you got it. You Totally understood why that happens. Now do you wanna talk about perms?
Jam:Yes, please.
Melissa:Okay. Perms are amazing
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:Because they don't break with water Uh-huh. Because they're not formed from hydrogen bonds the way curls or heat styles are. Mhmm. The way perms work is by altering your disulfide bonds.
Jam:Woah. So they're getting down into it.
Melissa:They're getting down into it. So, usually, they set your hair however You want it to be in curlers or whatever. Uh-huh. So say you want curly hair. Mhmm.
Melissa:They'll put your hair in curlers, And then they will apply an agent. Mhmm. It's usually a sulfur containing something, which is why it smells bad because sulfur smells bad to us.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And they'll apply this all over your hair to break your sulfide bond. It is something that will come in and basically just break apart the sulfide bonds.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And once your sulfide bonds are broken, it's like your hair is a blank slate. Mhmm. It has nothing that's holding it into place. Uh-huh. But they've put it in the new position you want it to be in.
Melissa:So then they put a different chemical that helps the sulfide bonds reform in the Curly position because your hair is already in that position.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And it fuses your hair back into That shape permanently.
Jam:That is crazy.
Melissa:So you break the sulfide bonds in their natural state, and then you reform them the way you want them to be.
Jam:Wow. What the heck?
Melissa:I know.
Jam:That is nuts. And this also seems like how is that impossible? Like, I I get the steps that you're saying, but it does feel a little bit like So we're just able to break the bonds and then put them back?
Melissa:Listen. Organic chemistry is all about that. I can manipulate atoms and make them go exactly where I wanna go, and I'm always sort of a little bit thinking, this is insane that we can do this. Yeah. Insane.
Jam:That is insane.
Melissa:And so people who are working at hair salons, I don't know who figured out how to do this because it seems pretty amazing to me. Yeah. But they are doing the same thing. They're manipulating the atoms and the bonds in your hair and putting them exactly where they want them.
Jam:Do you think it initially was like, We just discovered that this, like, juice from this plant or whatever does this. And then later, it was discovered like, oh, it's this It's like the disulfide bonds
Melissa:Maybe some.
Jam:Breaking and reforming. Because it there's a lot of things like that like that that we discover as humans.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And then only later do we understand.
Melissa:Like Soap?
Jam:Yes. Mhmm. Like, we don't understand what it's doing till later, but we just happen upon.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And we've got we've had so many years of experimenting, like, And just putting stuff on stuff. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. Our hair, our skin. What does it do?
Jam:Probably tons of things that didn't work out great.
Melissa:But
Jam:then you're like, oh, wow. My hair's curly now. This is cool.
Melissa:Isn't that insane?
Jam:So can you do a this is maybe a dumb question. Can you do a straight permanent permanent perm? Can you make your hair straight and then do it, and then your hair will be straight?
Melissa:Yes. Usually, it's called chemically relaxing your hair to make it straight, And they use often really harsh chemicals to break the sulfur bonds. Like, sometimes they use sodium hydroxide, all kinds of stuff, or different types of hair. So it is possible to make your hair chemically straight. Okay.
Melissa:They just break the disulfide bonds. I don't know if they even They're reforming them in the flat.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:But they just use really abrasive chemicals that'll break the disulfide bonds.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So, yeah, that is possible.
Jam:Interesting. Also sounds like the chemicals would be pretty crazy. Like like Mhmm. I would bet they could be dangerous. I don't know.
Jam:If you like
Melissa:Well, the sodium hydroxide is very dangerous. Those were Very unwise methods of using to impact your hair because it's caustic. It's basically the same as putting acid on your hair. It's very dangerous. And then for perms, I asked, your wife got a perm for, like, beachy waves
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:That were so cute. But I said, How did your perm smell while they were doing it? And she said, super strong, smelly chemicals. And I said, like, maybe rotting eggs? And she said, yeah.
Melissa:Kind of sulfuric. And that is so accurate.
Jam:That's so funny because she wouldn't know about the sulfur part. Diphospholide.
Melissa:If you
Jam:asked her before, she's probably even listened to the other one.
Melissa:Yep. And so she could tell that had that sulfur smell, and they do use Sulfur containing compounds that smell kind of rotten eggs because hydrogen sulfide is in rotten eggs to break the original sulfur bonds. They basically put another for Anne to get in the middle and break it up.
Jam:I I was out of town when she got that perm, and I got back. And then I was smelling the aftermath of it. And to me, it smelled a little
Melissa:it too?
Jam:I could smell oh, yeah. I smelled it for weeks. Like, seriously, a long time. It that even though she would wash her hair and it smelled a little like shampoo, I could still smell The, whatever smell it is. But I kinda described it like almost like burnt hair.
Melissa:Well, that's probably not wildly different
Jam:because might not be, but The eggs thing wasn't part of it for me. I just smelled the I obviously didn't smell the straight up chemicals. I just smelled the result, but, yeah, smelled like burnt hair.
Melissa:Let's get into that then. That's my last section of today's episode. Okay. Damaging hair. Chemistry explains how Heating your hair can damage it
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And how perms can damage it. Mhmm. Which would you like to hear about first?
Jam:So heating And perms? Mhmm.
Melissa:Let's
Jam:do perms first. We were just talking about perms, and then do heating.
Melissa:Every time you break your disulfide bonds and reform them Uh-huh. No reaction is a 100% Perfect?
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So every time you do that, you're reforming some less disulfide bonds.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And that means that you're breaking permanently disulfide bonds that never can reform
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Which over time makes your hair look limp and damaged.
Jam:Mhmm. Wow.
Melissa:Now for heat, it's a different story. Hair is made up of proteins.
Jam:Yes?
Melissa:Proteins have the primary structure, which is just a series of amino acids. It's basically what atoms make up this. Uh-huh. And then there's a secondary structure, which is sort of I think I'm not a biochemist, but I think the disulfide bonds between different Cysteine amino acids technically fall into secondary structure.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But if if you're biochemist and you know better, let me know. And then there's a tertiary structure, which is the overall folding of the whole chain of amino acids in space. There's also a quaternary structure, so that would be even more complex of the way amino acids interact with each other. Okay. But in this case, all you need to know is that that's how complex proteins are.
Melissa:They have their atoms, and then the atoms can interact with each other. Mhmm. And then the chain can start folding in on itself, And it's very complicated. Mhmm. And there's a process by which that folding can be undone.
Melissa:Mhmm. Then the proteins can no no longer Mhmm. Serve the purpose that they were intended to serve. Mhmm. And that process is called denaturing.
Jam:Oh, I've heard that word before.
Melissa:Mhmm. Uh-huh. And denaturing can happen chemically or by heat.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:So if we apply excessive amounts of heat to our hair, We begin to our hair Mhmm. Leaving it weaker and damaged because we've literally and damaged to the proteins.
Jam:Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That makes sense because it seems like you can't you can't really mess with that basic of a building block of a substance like that Right. Within that significant way without it having some, like, irreversible effect.
Melissa:Mhmm. I
Jam:mean, you can't just, like, do that. I mean, you could use a lot of analogies for that. But, like, anything you mess with at that basic of a level, the building blocks of it, it just seems like It's it has to have an effect.
Melissa:Right. And, initially, you're just hoping to mess with the hydrogen bond, but I think it's probably a pretty fine line of how much heat can be applied, reform hydrogen bonds, and not damage the hair.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So if you keep heating, you're going to denature proteins. And that's what some I don't wanna do any spoilers, but That is definitely present in some cooking and maybe a topic that was specifically requested regarding Eggs.
Jam:Woah.
Melissa:Heat does denature proteins, and you can't just apply it to your hair consistently hoping to Do temporary change and not be prepared for the permanent ramifications.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Melissa:Now there's one more thing. Uh-oh. This is for my curly girls. Uh-huh. Curly girls, no.
Melissa:You do not brush your curls.
Jam:Woah. Really?
Melissa:Never. You shouldn't if you're desperate, like, you have a really bad tangle and you're going to do it in the shower when it's wet and with conditioner is the best place to use a brush. But, ideally, you just comb through it with your fingers. You do not brush it, and you definitely don't brush it when it's dry.
Jam:Wow. I did not know that. Why?
Melissa:Well, one time, a boy in 7th grade, who was kind of a jerk, asked me that same question. And then not too long after, we're going to a concert Mhmm. For band. And my hair didn't look really good. And I was young, and I was stupid.
Melissa:And so I thought brushing It might help. And then when I got to the concert, that boy told me I looked like a poodle because your hairdress goes Oh. When you brush it. Uh-huh. Weird.
Melissa:Why? Because when you brush it, you are Messing up the intermolecular forces that makes your hair lay flat and nice.
Jam:That's crazy. Just brushing it.
Melissa:Mhmm. You're
Jam:not even, like, adding some chemicals in there. You're just Having something pass through and separate strands from each other.
Melissa:Yes. I think in curly hair, there's a lot more just than the disulfide bonds that we talked about that form the basic shape. They contribute to frizziness and all of that. But by touching it and messing with it, you're damaging the weaker intermolecular forces that are Play. Even the dispersion forces like geckos have are present anytime 2 molecules are near each other.
Melissa:And I think curly hair just relies on that more to keep those strands together.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:If straight hair was separated out, it wouldn't matter. But curly hair separated out is now a bunch of really small curls that are Yeah. All fighting for a space.
Jam:Weird.
Melissa:So curly curls, don't touch or brush your curls after they're formed. Just Don't touch them, and you'll have a better curly hair day.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:Thanks, intermolecular forces. This is so interesting and so excited for exciting for me because I have spent a lot of time learning how to try to have good hair days and, like, kind of experiment with it. Some hair days are better than the others. Uh-huh. And this really answered a lot of questions for me.
Melissa:Like, I'll have a really nice hair day.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And then as the day goes on, it doesn't look nearly as good. Mhmm. And it's probably because so many things are messing with the intermolecular forces in my hair. Mhmm. So I was I felt very excited and enlightened to have answers for those questions.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:So much of it I mean, so there's a good amount of it. It doesn't apply to me. I have A lot less hair, and it definitely don't have any curls.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:But there is a lot that does. Just knowing about what hair is even like at the molecular level and what Hey. What Forces are at play. Here's a question I have that might not be an easy answer, so we might just not be able to do it. But I just realized The there's that talk about sulfates in shampoos Mhmm.
Jam:And them kinda, like, not being good
Melissa:for
Jam:your hair.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Is that At in the same category of stuff with damage your hair and stuff is
Melissa:I wanna look into it, but I suspect that if something can be bonded with a sulfate sulfur in it. It could also be bonded with sulfur in your hair, meaning it would break disulfide bonds. Haven't looked into That, and I think it merits its whole own episode.
Jam:Deal. Sounds good.
Melissa:So that's it. That's everything I have for you about hair and how we can style it And how we can herd it.
Jam:Okay. I'm gonna do my best to try to recap it
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:In my own words. But it's, like, three Different there are a few different things.
Melissa:Yeah. Maybe we should have let you stop along the way.
Jam:Yeah. What was the first one? I wanna do it in
Melissa:that order. Heat styling?
Jam:Okay. So with heat styling, Because our hair has hydrogen bonding as part of it.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And it's semi permeable, which means water can just hang out in there as well.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And water is all about hydrogen bonding.
Melissa:Oh, a 100%.
Jam:And our hair has hydrogens available to bond as well. Mhmm. Right? So whenever we apply heat like A curling iron, a straightening iron Mhmm. Blow dryer, whatever it is.
Melissa:All that stuff.
Jam:We remove the moisture. Mhmm. The water, which takes away those hydrogen bonds Right. And allows us to shape our hair in a way we want to Mhmm. While those are gone.
Melissa:That's pretty close. Uh-huh. The only thing is new hydrogen bonds, new intermolecular forces are likely forming.
Jam:Did they keep it that way?
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Oh, got it. So it's kinda like in that's that window of, like, removing them and doing stuff, and then they reform. And then it's like, they reform in the way that it already was.
Melissa:Yeah. They
Jam:That that you just shaped it or whatever. Mhmm. Okay. Got it. Got it.
Melissa:And they can stay that way until something disrupts the intermolecular forces that have been newly formed.
Jam:Like getting your hair wet or, like, intense humidity or something.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And at the same time, because you're messing with things at the molecular level
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Heat Styling your hair can damage it over time because you're you're messing with the bonds. You're messing with the intermacular forces. And every time we do that, it can't necessarily just go back to exactly how it was perfectly.
Melissa:That's actually a better description of the damage that comes with the perm. Oh. So with heat styling, it's actually more that You're applying heat.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And that's not just evaporating water and helping newborns' bonds form. It also is breaking other bonds.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:The permanent bonds that make up the fabric of our proteins.
Jam:Because heat can denature proteins no matter what we're talking about, whether it's hair or something else.
Melissa:Right. Or eggs or whatever.
Jam:Got it. Yeah. Hair and eggs. They're so close together.
Melissa:Hair, eggs. Denaturing proteins is everywhere.
Jam:Yeah. Okay. So that's what happens there. It's the protein level.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And then when if you're doing a perm, you are They're doing a chemical thing to get rid of all the disulfide bonds. They're able to, like Like, just kind of kill those or whatever.
Melissa:Right. They break them. They use something that Mhmm. Chemically disrupts those bonds.
Jam:And Then they add them back in with a different chemical while your hair is styled in the way you want it to end up being. Curls, or waves or whatever it is.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And so they are adding the disulfide bonds back in. But Like I sort of said about the other one in not the not right way. When you're messing with that stuff, even though you're trying to add those bottles back in, It's not perfect. You're not, like, able to get it Right. Back to the natural state that it already is perfectly.
Jam:Second card is damage. Maybe not something that you like super noticeable, but maybe you got if you get, like, a lot of perms in a row or something like that. Right. Your hair would just it would have an effect
Melissa:Over time.
Jam:Over time.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And that's hair?
Melissa:That's hair. You got it.
Jam:Was there anything else? Was that it?
Melissa:Nope. You got it. You did I did heat, perm, damage, and you did heat, damage, perm, damage.
Jam:Yep. Yeah.
Melissa:You got it.
Jam:So as a nonchemist, what I would say is one of the most damaging things you can do to your hair is to dye your hair. Because just be you. You know?
Melissa:Yeah. Just
Jam:be the you that you already are.
Melissa:Actually, that's a good idea to do the chemistry of dyeing your hair.
Jam:That is true.
Melissa:Should we just do an infinite series on all the hair products
Jam:that come out?
Melissa:I mean,
Jam:I even wanna ask about, like, hair products and shampoo and all this stuff like that. There's so much to do.
Melissa:There is. Oh, this is very exciting. Okay. Well, we just added 2 more ideas to the list.
Jam:And and, hopefully, we can kinda bend the chemistry to say what we want a little bit and say like, oh, yeah. Don't don't dye your hair. It's actually horrible.
Melissa:It is not good for you based on my An anecdotal evidence, but, no, we're not gonna bend the science to our will. That's how people stop trusting chemists. Okay. Oh, we're in a society where we can't afford for people to not trust science.
Jam:Okay. Sorry about that, guys. I'm not a scientist. So
Melissa:Don't listen to anything. He says he doesn't know a single thing. Well, now that you've had your nice chemistry lesson, how's your week been?
Jam:It's been interesting. It's been a a week of, the experience of homeownership, the downsides. I've had a few of those this week. We've been trying to relocate our washer and dryer to the original hookups in this house In the garage.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Seems simple. They're still there. The hookup's there. Great. This week, we discovered that there was no power delivered to the actual outlet for the dryer.
Melissa:Oh, man.
Jam:So we gotta get that figured out. We had to install
Melissa:there was power there once.
Jam:There was once. And we had to we already knew this part. We had to, like, kind of get the dryer vent thing figured out and reinstall it because it's not in good condition. You obviously wanna make sure that's Hot air is not blowing some weird place.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And then last night, we discovered that the washer drain doesn't drain as fast as it should, Oh. Which meant that water went everywhere.
Melissa:Oh, no. Yeah. Oh.
Jam:Yeah. It started creeping. I mean, it was like it's a garage, so there's a That's a better place than some other places.
Melissa:Oh, right. Yeah. It's on concrete. Car carpet or in
Jam:the house or whatever.
Melissa:We got
Jam:I mean, everybody's got stuff in their garage. Yeah. Started creeping toward my roommate's drum drum set. And, thankfully, he has it on, like, a a mat, and the bottom of that mat is rubber. And so, like
Melissa:is good.
Jam:Unless it was, like, an inch of water, it would not touch his drums at all. So that was great. But so that's my week kind of has been around that project, and it's had its ups and downs. So hopefully hopefully, next week, I can report that it's all wrapped up and everything's great And then my life is is whole again.
Melissa:Good. Well, that's all for. Yeah. Yeah. What a crazy week.
Jam:It really was. Hopefully, it's just less crazy.
Melissa:So if Jim was a little loopy, it's because his mind was half thinking about how it could fix his home situation, his home life.
Jam:Yeah. I was like, what kind of, Like, bonds can I break? What kind of sulfur can I dump down this drain to get that thing figured out? What about you? How was your week?
Melissa:This isn't really about my week, but this past Black Friday, I don't believe in black Black Friday shopping unless it's extreme circumstances.
Jam:Was it Black Friday or Cyber Monday?
Melissa:It's Black Friday.
Jam:Oh, wow.
Melissa:My roommate went Black Friday shopping with her family. Uh-huh. And I live I live I don't think I've told anyone this, but I live with a couple. Mhmm. I rent out their spare bedroom.
Melissa:Mhmm. And that couple has 2 big dogs. Mhmm.
Jam:And
Melissa:they're super cute. I could put a picture of them up.
Jam:Oh, that's a good idea.
Melissa:But they also Track in so much crap onto our hardwood floors. Mhmm. And the 3 of us aren't, like, the cleanest people naturally.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So our floors were not in great condition. Mhmm. And I felt like none of our vacuums were really taking care of business. Like Totally. I tried to vacuum once a week, which is not enough when you have 2 dogs.
Melissa:And the vacuum cleaner could not
Jam:handle the sheer volume
Melissa:of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And so we got My roommate went, and she got a gift for the house Mhmm. Of a Roomba.
Melissa:Mhmm. And she didn't know it at the time, but it turns out it was a gift for me Because it's like my little pet. Yeah. And I love it, and I research about it, and I keep up the maintenance, and it cleans our house every day. Yeah.
Melissa:And I thought that this was a luxury purchase Uh-huh. But it is a basic life necessity purchase.
Jam:It's pretty incredible. We have 1 too, and it's like, It is a game changer.
Melissa:If you have 1 dog that sheds a lot or more than 1 dog, you need a Roomba.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Just wait For next Black Friday, you can get one for, like, $150. Yeah. That's a year from now. Save up $10 every month Uh-huh. And do yourself give yourself the gift A Varumba.
Melissa:Thanks, Irobot, for all you do in my home Mhmm. And in my heart. Mhmm. And thanks, Jim, for hang out at my office and learning about chemistry.
Jam:Anytime or once a week ish, if that's okay with you.
Melissa:Yeah. And thanks to all of you listeners for tuning in and for getting excited, hopefully, about the chemistry of hair with us.
Jam:Melissa and I have a lot of ideas for topics of chemistry in everyday life, but we wanna hear from you. You have questions or ideas, you can reach out to us at Gmail or on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at chem for your life. That's Kim, f o r, Your life to share thoughts and ideas. If you enjoy this podcast, you can subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And if you really like it, you can write a review on Apple Podcasts.
Jam:Helps to be able to share chemistry with even more people. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to the cost of making it, go to kodashfi.com/chem for your life, and donate the cost of a cup of coffee.
Melissa:This episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Collini and Jim Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jim Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to a
