What is vanilla? (and imitation vanilla?)
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:This is definitely everyday life for me.
Jam:Oh, really?
Melissa:Yes. Because well, I guess our listeners already know. I always forget, but you don't know fully. We're gonna be talking about the chemistry of vanilla.
Jam:Oh, vanilla is part of your everyday life?
Melissa:I love vanilla. I bake with it a lot. Yeah? There's a lot I don't know about it, but I did know what I'm gonna share a lot of what I'm gonna share with you today about it.
Jam:Nice. I like vanilla too. I mean, I don't use it much as you do. But
Melissa:I put it in my coffee. I put it in my baked goods. Yeah. I put it in anything I can think would be benefited by having some vanilla in there. Just a little bit of vanilla.
Jam:Yeah. I don't know what's baking, but most things I have baked call for vanilla, I think.
Melissa:Mhmm. A lot of sweet things have vanilla in there. Just a nice flavor. So this idea was given to me by a student. I think because of FERPA, I can't share any information, but the student has a Strong interest in botany.
Melissa:Okay. And he specializes in orchids.
Jam:Botany. The study of robots, of course.
Melissa:Right. Right. That's what botany is, and the orchid robots for sure. So vanilla beans are pods that are essentially the fruit of a specific type of orchid.
Jam:Oh, I did not know that.
Melissa:Haven't you ever seen pictures of vanilla beans with some flour in front of it?
Jam:I have. Yes.
Melissa:That's the vanilla orchid.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:Its fancy name is vanilla plan plenifolia. I don't know if I said that right. I'm not a biologist. So It's a specific type of orchid. There are a ton of different types of orchid.
Melissa:My student was really excited and told me a lot of really cool stuff about them. And the vanilla pods contain seeds of these orchids. And then we dry them up, and And we take them and use them to flavor.
Jam:Interesting. Mhmm.
Melissa:And vanilla was very, very rare because To pollinate these vanilla orchids, essentially, a bee has to bring pollen over this very small membrane. And it's kind of difficult to do. And orchids, they can pollinate themselves, so they don't have to bring it from 1 plant to another, but somehow You've gotta get the pollen over this membrane into where it needs to go so that they will create the pods.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:Otherwise, they won't. It has to be pollinated to make the pods that have that we call vanilla beans once they're dried up.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But they learned I think it's actually a child who learned this, that you can literally use a stick, like a toothpick, to self pollinate the vanilla orchid flower.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And it's not there I think there's not a very long time that it's in bloom. So you have to work quickly, And you have to take my student actually showed me this on a different type of orchid. He used a mechanical pencil. So it's really small To scrape up the pollen and put it where it needs to go.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:I know. Isn't that so cool? Yeah. And you have to pollinate it before It can make the seeds. So vanilla is a very, very labor intensive crop.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:He also mentioned, and I didn't have time to confirm this, but it lends itself to child labor because it takes small hands, and it's so simple a child could do it. But it's a lot of work.
Jam:Got it. Yeah.
Melissa:But I wasn't able to confirm that for sure. But because it's so labor intensive, it's very expensive. But once they learned how to pollinate the the flowers consistently, vanilla began to spread and became much more common.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Actually, I thought this was very interesting. I learned it from the Royal Society of Chemistry. They have a chemistry podcast also. They're really short, and they focus on specific Molecules rather than questions the way we do.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And some of them are kinda more advanced, but I think they're really interesting. And they said that when the vanilla pods are picked, they don't smell like vanilla yet because, actually, That vanilla exists in in a bigger molecule. The the molecule that's responsible for the vanilla flavor is bound to something else, glucose. Oh. And then enzymes will Allow as they dry out, we'll allow it to break apart and release the free vanilla molecules.
Jam:Got it. Got it. So it Has to be dried out Yes. For it to be, like, what we want.
Melissa:Yes. Exactly. So the thing that gives us this vanilla that I keep referring to
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Is vanillin.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:It's part of the valenoid family, which we talked about Those when we talked about capsaicin? Uh-huh. So there are a bunch of other things besides just capsaicin that's also in the family, but it is essentially a benzene ring with some functional groups around it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:The one's an aldehyde, one's a methoxy group, and one's, An Oh group. Okay. Okay. So I don't think it super matters that you remember exactly each of these functional groups or whatever, But I did wanna say that it's a benzene ring with functional groups because as I've been researching this podcast, a lot of different times I've heard people say things like, Benzene is really bad, which it is, but benzene rings are a part of a lot of things that are good, like vanilla. And I heard a doctor say, Aldehydes in the body are bad.
Melissa:They're essentially poison. But that's not true because vanilla is not a poison, at least not in the doses we use it in.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So I thought it was a good way to represent that that these blanket statements aren't really that accurate.
Jam:I see. Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. So Vanillin is the main vanilla flavor that you taste when you are getting flavor from a vanilla bean, a natural vanilla source, or when you have artificial vanilla.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:They're the same. Do you wanna guess about what makes natural vanilla and artificial vanilla different? If they both have this vanillin in there?
Jam:Dang. I have one of these in just a general sense, but I don't really
Melissa:know. Okay. I'll tell you. There are 200 differences roughly.
Jam:Oh my gosh.
Melissa:Those 200 differences are about 200 different organic molecules. They give up all those subtle flavors into a natural vanilla source.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So whenever there's a reaction in nature, a lot of times there's side products or, You know, this, that, something in the plant that gives it a little extra flavor.
Jam:Like maple syrup.
Melissa:Like we talked about with maple syrup. Yeah. Exactly.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:And so vanilla This comes from natural sources like the vanilla orchid can have about 200 different organic molecules that give it a more subtle flavor, and These can vary in different regions. Because the plants are growing in different conditions, the different stressors will cause it to put out different molecules. So For example, vanilla grown in Madagascar is known to have a really bourbon taste. It's called bourbon vanilla because that's the flavor associated with The vanilla that's grown in that region. Yeah.
Melissa:So the different environments can cause different organic molecules that give these subtle flavors.
Jam:Yeah. It's very much the same with coffee too. Mhmm. Like coffee grown in different areas can have super different taste.
Melissa:Jim, don't get ahead. We're not doing coffee yet.
Jam:Oh, sorry.
Melissa:But, yes, that's definitely true. So the difference is that vanilla plants have these 200 different organic molecules that vanilla that comes from plants, I should say.
Jam:Oh, yeah.
Melissa:Has these 200 different organic molecules, but vanilla extract is pretty much just the vanillin. It's missing all that extra vanilla flavor.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So ironically, when people call something pure vanilla versus imitation vanilla, The quote, unquote pure vanilla is actually less pure because all of the impurities in the vanilla are what gives it those extra flavors. 200 different impurities
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Besides just the main vanillin. And the imitation vanilla that's just vanillin is actually very pure.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So that's kinda funny.
Jam:Yeah. That's interesting. It's kind of counterintuitive.
Melissa:Yeah. It kind of is almost as if we think pure is better. Yeah. But in this case, pure is one note and less depth of flavor.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And the Actual with all the different side products, less pure has more depth of flavor.
Jam:Yeah. That's interesting.
Melissa:So for me personally, we can talk about how vanillin is made for the artificial vanilla sources Uh-huh. In just a second. But for me, personally, the fact that it's made in the lab versus grown, you know, grown organically or grown naturally is not a big deal.
Jam:I
Melissa:know that one has more depth of flavor, but because it's so labor intensive and it's so Hard to come by. It is very expensive. So I'm not worried about, is this plant based or is this made in Lab, I'm fine with either of those things. I would eat either of those things. But if I'm trying to make a higher end product, then I would go for the more expensive one just because it has more depth The flavor.
Melissa:But for day to day baking, I'm fine using the imitation vanilla knowing it comes from a lab.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:That's me as a chemist.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Either of these, the main component of flavor is the vanillin, and that is the same. That is an identical molecule regardless of its origin.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:They don't want people to be afraid of artificial vanilla because of that. I just want them to know it has less depth of flavor.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.
Melissa:It has less random molecules in it. Yeah. I
Jam:guess, like, depending on what you're baking, if you have a lot of flavors you're adding in anyway, you might be wasting this really nice vanilla. You know? Right. It has lots of other tasty notes to it Because you're adding in other flavors anyway.
Melissa:That maybe just cover it up or something.
Jam:Yeah. Like Like, you might wanna save it for when it's gonna be really appreciated or
Melissa:something. Right. And I have done that where I took actual vanilla beans and put them in something I was making. So but it's just Do you always wanna do that? Do you always wanna do the more expensive, more labor?
Melissa:I think it I read something that vanillin from vanilla beans is 200 times more expensive
Jam:Oh my gosh.
Melissa:Than just synthetic vanilla.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:You know, it's funny. I can't remember the details around this, but I've heard various myths around different synthetic Mhmm. Ways of making vanilla. Like, if something doesn't have the right like ice cream, for instance
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Is vanilla, but it doesn't say vanilla bean, Then it's this gross way of making fake vanilla from something.
Melissa:Well, there are some weird ways of making vanilla. Right.
Jam:And I'm not sure if it's true, but I just feel like, who cares?
Melissa:Still tastes good.
Jam:Yeah. It's still vanilla. Right?
Melissa:Yeah. It's still vanilla. The main flavor is still vanillin. I will say that one of the the American Chemical Society video that I watched that talked about this said that for dairy products, If you don't use vanilla from a natural source, which we'll get into what that means in a second, you have to put on there that it's artificial vanilla. So but that's not true for any other baked good.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:Or it's just dairy products.
Jam:I don't get it.
Melissa:It is weird. Right?
Jam:It seems like Shouldn't matter what it is?
Melissa:Yeah. But it doesn't really matter. All that matters is 1 ice cream might have more flavors. And some American consumers are so used to just plain vanilla extract, the, imitation extract, that they don't really appreciate vanilla bean flavor because it's too much going on. Yeah.
Melissa:Interesting.
Jam:Yeah. It's interesting.
Melissa:So before I get into how vanilla is made, the purely imitation vanilla is what they call it, let me talk about something I call halfway between a natural product and not. So when I thought, Always before, when I thought of what natural vanilla or true vanilla extract was from, I thought of the flour and the bean. Mhmm. But there are companies that have made something such as a strain of yeast, which It's proprietary, so they don't sell the information of how they do it. Yeah.
Melissa:But that yeast can break down a byproduct of rice bran oil to make vanilla.
Jam:Woah.
Melissa:And that is considered natural vanilla and not artificial vanilla.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And there's something similar. Another company, I don't remember what they use, But they basically did a similar fermentation process of a naturally sourced product to make vanilla, I think unnaturally. Uh-huh. They had to modify the yeast, or they had to identify this strain of yeast that would do that. Uh-huh.
Melissa:So and that that's interesting because we have a professor who does research on campus who uses bacteria, I think, to do organic synthesis.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So I think that is a fine line between a natural, Quote, unquote vanilla sauce and a synthetic vanilla sauce.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.
Melissa:It's kinda weird.
Jam:Yeah. And I feel like Natural is such a broad word.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And people kinda have, like, these loose associations with what they think it Means and isn't? Yeah. But, really, it's hard to draw, like, a super strong, clear line around it.
Melissa:Yeah. That if they get it from that kind of company, that extract on a dairy product, you can say, that's natural. Yeah. Same thing with, I think, Hershey's or some some chocolate company recently in the last 5 I think, announced they were going all natural vanilla. But that same year, vanilla crops had a really bad turnout.
Melissa:And so one of the alternate sources they could go to would be something like that, the yeast that produces the vanilla.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:Interesting. Right? Yeah. Okay. So how do scientists make vanilla?
Melissa:In a lab.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:This is maybe if you're gonna say top tier is from the vanilla orchid. Middle tier is from these Yeast or fermentation processes that give us vanilla
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:This is this is artificial. This is what they call artificial or imitation vanilla extract.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So a thing that I don't think a lot of people know about organic chemistry is if we if we have an end product that we want
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:We can get it from a lot of different places. So we can I think a lot of times people think, oh, if I want c, I have to start with a plus b?
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:But, really, if I want vanilla, I could start with any number of sources.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So the sources from which artificial vanilla comes, sources they make artificial vanilla with is this guaiacol petroleum.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And it has all the functional groups vanillin has except in aldehyde. All you have to do is come up with a a some sort of synthetic method to add this aldehyde on here.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:Another one is from spruce tree lignin. So it's an alcohol that's in the lignin of plants, and that Lignin is something in the plant that sort of strengthens the structure of its cells, if I'm not mistaken.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So in that lignin, it has coniferl alcohol, and that has 2 of the same functional groups as vanillin, but 1 is a long chain of carbons with an alcohol, so that needs to be changed to an.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:So there's all these different starting places you could start with. Another is if you have corn sugar, you can take glucose and really go through a lot more reactions. It doesn't have the same basic Starting shape, it's not a vanilloid like the other ones we've talked about. It's just glucose, and you have to do a lot more, but you can end up getting vanillin from that.
Jam:Interesting. Okay. Okay. So it's kind of a range, but if, like, what which things need more, you know, taken away or added or whatever? Yes.
Jam:Molecularly to make it become vanilla.
Melissa:Yes. And when I was an organic chemist in the organic chemistry lab, I would think through, okay, What starting materials do I already have? What reactions are relatively easy to work, and what reactions are gonna give me a pretty high yield? So some reactions will give you almost 100% of your starting material would be turned into your goal material. In other reactions, it's closer to 60 or 75% of your starting material gives your next product.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:So, actually, as an organic chemist, you kind of have to do a puzzle. We're doing 3 different reactions in a row to with starting from a a really different starting material and end up with your final vanillin option, would that give me a higher overall yield? Would it be easier? Or would actually it be better to do 1 step, but it gives me a lower yield, but I can do that reaction more often?
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And For me, that was about as much as I thought. What would make my life easier as a grad student and give me the most that I wanted of something? But for industry, they're also thinking about economically. What is the best starting material? What can we What reactions can we carry out at an industrial level safely for our workers?
Melissa:They have so many other things to think about.
Jam:Right. Right. And it's just already from the very beginning on a much more insane scale. It's like Yes. We have to be able to get massive amounts of all these things.
Jam:And, yeah, just the the second house would
Melissa:be sell it. Yes.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. And it has to be perfectly pure. So if one reaction pathway gives you a lot of side products and it's really challenging to get your pure vanillin that's food grade, then maybe you don't Wanna take that pathway at an industrial level.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:But maybe for me in a lab, that would be easier if it's just me. You know? Mhmm. So there's a lot of things to consider, and I don't think people always know that about organic chemistry. They I think a lot of times the perception is You have 2 flasks, and you mix them together, and they make something else.
Melissa:And that's it. And that's how you make the thing. When you hear that vanilla is coming from all these different sources, is what we're talking about, is this idea that chemist can take any number of these starting materials and Convert them into vanilla. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:And even vanilla beans, we talked about how When it's in the vanilla bean, it has to go through that aging process because an enzyme actually sort of does a reaction, a chemistry reaction for you, And it breaks the bond between the vanilla and the glucose making those 2 separate molecules, and that's where we get our vanilla flavor. So even the enzymes in your vanilla beans are doing a chemistry reaction.
Jam:Interesting. Yes.
Melissa:Thanks, enzymes, for helping our chemistry reactions happen. Yeah. So even, you know, even the thing that you're getting from this quote, natural source from this vanilla orchid is going through some kind of chemical transition into what your final product is. It's just in the lab, it's going through a different transition. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. Another fun fact that's sort of related to this, the idea that Vanilla can come from a lot of different sources is Uh-huh. If you're cooking over a campfire, if there's lignin, you know, there's lignin in this Wood from the tree. Uh-huh. It's possible that the campfire will facilitate that chemical reaction and Create vanillin molecules from the wood, and you'll get that vanilla flavor to your meat.
Jam:Oh, interesting.
Melissa:And if you have heard that there is sometimes a vanilla flavor to barrel aged whiskeys and alcohols
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm. It
Melissa:goes through that same process where the wood from the barrel has something in it that can break down to become vanillin molecules. So you'll have vanillin molecules in the alcohol that's been aged in these barrels Uh-huh. Because it's doing a chemical reaction is breaking down some of that, The alcohol and the lignin.
Jam:Interesting. That's crazy. Especially because, like, that stuff is always cool to hear about because
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:People have been aging stuff in barrels For such a long time, obviously, before before knowing the molecular stuff that's going on, but recognizing that there's some benefit flavor wise that they Yeah. The they've been doing it, and they've done that for, you know, long time. But that's it's cool to hear them like, oh, here's why. You know?
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't know that. And I I know that when you cook meat on a campfire or when you're you know, when you have aged whiskey versus something else, it definitely has different flavors.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:And to think that some of those flavors is synthetic vanilla that the that the wood broke down into is kinda cool.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. That's cool.
Melissa:So I think that's really fun.
Jam:Yeah. That's awesome.
Melissa:That's your kind of chemistry lesson for today. That's what I was excited to talk about is the idea that vanillin can come from all these different sources, and they're just different synthetic pathways to get
Jam:There. Okay. Cool.
Melissa:But the other side of that chemistry lesson is once you have vanillin, You can use that to make other things.
Jam:Okay. Like, other than cookies and cakes and stuff?
Melissa:Other than cookies and cakes. Although that's chemistry too. No. I used vanillin. It's solid.
Melissa:In the state that I used it in the lab, we had A bottle of vanillin. So it was a solid vanillin molecule. It smelled so good. And for some reason, it was a solid, like, Rock kind of, so I would have to take a spatula, a chemistry spatula, and their metal and chip off some of it.
Jam:Oh, interesting.
Melissa:And I work with a lot of chemicals that didn't smell good, but, oh, I would always be excited when I had to do a reaction that started with vanilla. Uh-huh. I guess, technically, vanillin. But Yeah. So it would just smell so good.
Melissa:So I used vanillin to ultimately make The thing that I talked about part of what I talked about in the episode where I talked about my master's research about artificial solar cells. You start with vanillin, and I would go through probably 6 or 7 steps to get to a final product, but that was one of the things I started with.
Jam:Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Melissa:And not only me, but also vanillin is a starting material to make a Parkinson's disease drug, And it's also used to make other antibacterial medicines.
Jam:Oh, wow.
Melissa:So I think and I would assume that a lot of Synthetic chemists use it because it's a benzene ring, which those are really useful when you can functionalize them. We've talked about benzene before. We had a whole episode on it. Yeah. They're really useful when you can functionalize them.
Melissa:And then, also, you have the functional groups built in. So it's easier to alter the functional groups that are already there than to add new ones Onto it. So it's just a a nice tool. It's kind of like a Swiss army knife Yeah. Organic chemistry if you have a functionalized Benzene ring.
Jam:That's so interesting to me too because I think, obviously, without going into the benzene ring stuff, just I would not expect vanillin to be One of those things would be useful that way. Like, this was Harvey knife kinda thing. Yes. Of all the things, of all the molecules out there, one that We all pretty much know and enjoy is, in many forms that we have tasted it and encountered it. It's strange to think of it ending up also being very useful.
Jam:That's not intended to me. In a lab. Yes. And for things that are not even remotely close to, like, cakes and bakes and stuff. Yeah.
Melissa:Well, also part of why I like it is because That idea is because I think a lot of times people think scary chemicals are in a lab.
Jam:Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Melissa:But this is something that was originally isolated from orchid. You know? So, quote, unquote, chemicals doesn't mean anything, actually. Everything's a chemical. Water in your body is a chemical.
Melissa:Your DNA is a chemical. Everything is a chemical.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:The Yeah. The hyaluronic acid that's inside your eyeballs is a chemical, and so is Artificial vanillin and real vanillin, quote, unquote, real, all comes in the form of this molecule, and it's all a chemical. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a fun, also, chemistry lesson and something to think about as, as you think about chemicals in your home is to be more about dangerous chemicals versus safe good chemicals.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:Yeah. So that's it. That's your chemistry lesson on vanillin for this week.
Jam:Okay. Sweet. Can I kinda spit back to you what My takeaways from this one are because it's not like that as much of a specific specific lesson? We talked about some other stuff too. So Right.
Melissa:Also, did you notice you said sweet? Like, vanilla as in sweet things.
Jam:I
Melissa:wasn't I couldn't interrupt you fast enough to point it
Jam:So I think one of the first things that's definitely interesting takeaway is this the fact that, like, Vanilla comes from a flower, the seeds of a flower being dried or whatever.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:It's crazy.
Melissa:Seed pods. Yeah.
Jam:Yeah. The pods. But also the fact that what makes it different is all his other tastes and tasting notes and uniquenesses to it.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:But that it's also so rare, and so it makes sense inexpensive. It makes sense we have these other versions of it.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And that we've used those, like, yeast ways of making vanillin.
Melissa:That they call
Jam:natural. Yes. That are still technically natural because they are using a sort of natural process that is using, like, fungus or bacteria or whatever to our advantage.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:This still forms it, But it's not from the orchid. That's the difference.
Melissa:Yes. Yes.
Jam:And then we have totally synthetic, like, made in a lab vanillin That
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Is not natural in either sense of the word, really, but it's still vanillin for sure.
Melissa:They're all mostly made up of vanillin.
Jam:And we use the word pure, for instance. It's like Yes. Actually more pure in a way To have the lab made vanillin because then it's
Melissa:not Definitely.
Jam:Doesn't have other things in there that give it a taste. It's straight up vanillin.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:But the orchid, you know, vanillin has all kind of stuff in there too, so it's not very pure. It's like that's such a weird thing.
Melissa:Yes. So orchid based vanillin is the least pure because it gives you all these side products that make it delicious and give it depth of flavor.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But it's not pure vanilla when people say that. I don't know why they say that.
Jam:And then the next thing we have talked about that was interesting is just the various ways to make it once you are trying to make, like, it in a lab and how There's lots of different options of where to start
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Molecularly and try to get to the molecular structure of vanillin with that benzene ring. You can start with something that has extra stuff and get the stuff sort of taken away, so to speak. Try to get the other Yep. Molecules or functional groups or whatever, they go away. You can start with something that doesn't have stuff and need to add to it.
Jam:Just that Yeah. Whole deal that I'm not remembering some of the specifics there, but, it's very interesting that there's all these pathways to create Yeah. Vanillin.
Melissa:Yes. In any molecule, really. If I wanna make a molecule, I would have to think through all those same things usually.
Jam:Yeah. Dang.
Melissa:It's rare that there's one way to get to some type of molecule.
Jam:Yeah. Man, vanilla and vanillin, much more Interesting than I would have expected for sure.
Melissa:And much more chemically.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
Melissa:Speaking of chemically, I'm gonna say a happy thing from my week before you get a chance to this time.
Jam:I'll I'll allow it.
Melissa:Well, I know you care about it. And, also, I just wanted to say speaking of chemically. So my students had their 1st chemistry exam today.
Jam:Nice. You make it super, really hard on purpose and
Melissa:try to
Jam:make it, but they couldn't do it.
Melissa:I tried to make it testing over concepts that we talked about and discussed in class, and they should have had similar problems to What was on the exam in our work? You know? Mhmm. I I don't wanna surprise my students. I tell them exactly what I want them to know so that they'll study that.
Jam:Nice. Interesting idea. Interesting approach, but okay.
Melissa:I think most teachers do that. Not many teachers wanna trick people on the exam. Tori. Like, well, if you just go to class and you listen to what they talk about, you're probably in good shape.
Jam:Yeah. I think it's one of those, like, those Kind of classic, ways of misrepresenting a teacher were Yeah. When a stew I mean, a lot of students, I think, do Think that way even though it's not true, where it's like, man, this trip this teacher's always trying to trip me up. You know? And I understood Yeah.
Jam:I think most of them, they don't really want you want to mess you up by chance.
Melissa:I want my students to dude. Yeah. So that was really fun and exciting, and it's the 1st time I've ever written a full exam start to finish. Like, I've helped other people, but That was really a fun opportunity.
Jam:Nice. Dude, that's great. Very cool. Well, mine has nothing to do with any of that stuff, but But it was a happy
Melissa:I still I do still care about it even though it's not about chemistry.
Jam:Okay. Cool. I think you'll care. I mean, 1, you already know about it. So but, our study, like, the office room that Emma and I have at our house has been one of the sort of last ones for us to Try to figure out some of the details about it, and it's no.
Jam:Nothing's ever done in a house. But Yeah. We there were a few very Specific basic functional things that we hadn't figured out. For instance, a bookshelf.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:We had not gotten a bookshelf situation figured out in this study, which meant that our books were just hanging out in boxes for months months.
Melissa:And that's the room where we record, so I can attest to the Boxes of books in the corner.
Jam:Yes. Absolutely. And so we had yeah. We just kept kicking that can down the road, and then finally got to a point where we found a bookshelf, Figured it we've we were able to measure and realize it could fit perfectly in this one area, and we feel like it could hold, You know, all those we currently have and then some
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And ordered it, took a while to get here, And then finally got the time to put it together. And so now at least this basic part of our our study that's been missing for a while is There. And I'm just glad to have that checked off of our list.
Melissa:Yes. And I've seen it. I laid eyes on it. They got delivered right after we finished an
Jam:sad? Yeah. It did. Yeah. It was like, couldn't have been better timing.
Jam:It was like, we finished, and and it arrived. And so I thought I was gonna had to pause.
Melissa:And then the next week, they were put together, and they look so cute.
Jam:Yeah. It's yeah. We like it, and it's from this really sustainable, approach to furniture company that I've been pretty interested in. So I'll tell you more about it. If you're a nerd, like, about that kind of stuff, message us, and I'll tell you some details.
Jam:But Basic happy thing is that our books have a home.
Melissa:Yes. Very exciting.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Awesome. Well, thanks, Jam for 1, hosting me in your home and letting me see a cute bookshelves, but also for coming and learning about vanilla. I had a lot of fun with this So I learned some, and I also got to share some about what it's like to be a chemist. So all of my favorite things. And thanks to all you listeners as well.
Melissa:We could not do this without you, and we're so thankful for you.
Jam:And thanks for teaching us about such a fun topic, Melissa, about Vanilla and vanilla, and all of us have a relatability to loving things that have vanilla. And I would guess almost all of us do. So Thanks for teaching us about the chemistry behind this thing that we love. And if you, out there listener, have ideas, topics, questions, whatever it is You think might be about chemistry? Throw those our way.
Jam:Send them to us on Instagram, Twitter, Gmail, or Facebook at You're alive to share your thoughts and ideas with us. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, go to kodashfi.com/ Chem for your life, and donate the cost of a cup of coffee. If you're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing in your favorite podcast app and reading and writing a review on Apple Podcasts. That also helps us to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This Episode of Chemistry For Your Life was created by Melissa Collini and Jam Robinson. References for this episode could be found on our website or in our show notes. Jim Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to a Heffner and Inhul who reviewed this episode.
