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172 Freeze Dried
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Melissa: [00:00:00] Spooky Halloween!

Jam: this

Melissa: is our Halloween episode. When you put those spooky sounds in

Melissa: our intro song, I love it when you do

Jam: yeah, yeah. I forgot that.

Melissa: a Halloween tradition. Um, I love Halloween, and this is our Halloween, almost, it's a little before, episode. And so, I accidentally spoiled part of today's episode for Jan, which is that we are going to talk about what freeze dried candy and coffee are.

Jam: Nice. Which we had actually talked about this at one point, so you'd come meet a tiny heads up. So I knew it was happening at some point, but I didn't know when until two minutes ago.

Melissa: And you also didn't know that I brought freeze dried

Jam: whoa.

Melissa: that you could see it! There's some freeze dried Skittles, hold them up to the

Jam: Oh my gosh. That's crazy. Look at these guys.

Melissa: And,

Jam: open. So weird.

Melissa: Halloween!

Jam: Oh,

Melissa: that's like a peep, which I don't really like. Peeps, you used to be able to tell it had a [00:01:00] jack o lantern face, but it doesn't after hanging out my backpack.

Melissa: And, my personal favorite, and only candy corn that I like, is the Autumn Harvest where there's Some pumpkins and some little chocolate ones and then the traditional And I think they also maybe have some s'mores candy corn in here, too.

Jam: It's crazy that they like explode open

Jam: and that peep, that peep looks like something, something happened to it.

Melissa: I know it does

Jam: It's like

Melissa: But the skittles especially look weird Yeah, do some spooky sounds

Jam: spooky. You wouldn't think about it,

Melissa: So

Melissa: if

Jam: drying is spookier than we thought.

Melissa: If you're listening, instead of watching, you can go look at what freeze dried candy looks like. You can Google it. Or you can go to our YouTube video where you can look at the ones that we have here. And, um, I think we could even do a bonus episode, try these out on our bonus episode for the Patreon. For our ChemUnity podcast.

Jam: idea. Let's [00:02:00] do it.

Melissa: So, um, I was really excited about these and I saw them when I went to the coffee shop near us And I purchased them in honor of today's episode.

Melissa: So that was my fun surprise I know you don't love surprises, but I thought it'd be okay in this case

Jam: okay. Yeah, I got it. I can handle it.

Melissa: So that's what today's episode is all about freeze dried candy.

Melissa: What's the chemistry behind it? Why does it puff out like that? Let's get into it. Hey, i'm melissa

Jam: I'm jam

Melissa: And I'm a [00:03:00] chemist

Melissa: and welcome to chemistry for your life

Jam: podcast to help you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.

Melissa: Halloween spooky edition

Jam: It's like the only sound I can make, not only Halloween sound I can

Melissa: I don't really have any maybe like a Like an evil

Jam: yeah,

Melissa: I Can't turn fire green though. That's my

Jam: that's a serious thing. I can't, yeah, I cannot match that.

Melissa: I got to bring that back Wait, I try to put a clip of that every year

Melissa: because it was so

Jam: it was so

Jam: fun, man. Good times.

Melissa: So this episode was originally requested by Sandra on Instagram, who also said greetings from Mexico, which I've been to Mexico.

Melissa: I went to see the butterfly migration and also the food in Mexico city was amazing.

Jam: Nice.

Melissa: So shout out back. Love back to Mexico from you Sandra. She was like love from Mexico. I was like love back She originally asked for a Q& R like you mentioned about freeze dried coffee And I started to look [00:04:00] into it that day and I was like, nope, this needs to be a whole

Jam: Mm-Hmm.

Melissa: So I saved it away in my little pocket For Halloween specifically and I had seen these at our little coffee shop and I knew That we were gonna get some they're K's crunchy munchies

Jam: Nice.

Melissa: It's called, Hey there, pumpkin in mix, pumpkin mix.

Melissa: Hey there, pumpkin mix.

Jam: these are called Fris.

Melissa: Yeah. Fake Skittles. Frittles. Freeze dried Skittles

Jam: we go.

Melissa: frittles. And these just are called freeze dried treats. So let's talk about the chemistry behind what freeze dried candy and coffee are. Are they the same for candy and coffee? Why does it look all puffy and weird? Let's talk about it.

Jam: Okay.

Melissa: So first we kind of have to go way back to, you know, our processes, where do we go from? A solid to a liquid to a gas. Do you jam? And our listeners at home, you can pause and see if you can do it yourself. Can you talk about what the changes in states really are happening at a molecular level?

Jam: Yes, I think I can. [00:05:00] So in a solid, the molecules are packed pretty tightly together. And they also, I feel like the right phrase is, maybe this isn't exactly right, but they don't have the energy as well to like move around. Or the freedom and so what happens as we say you take something like ice for instance you give more energy into it which would be could be in the form of heat right you warm up the molecules start warming and moving more and then they can become a liquid which we would just watch it and it just looks like it's melting um and then it can move around more and there's the molecules have freedom to flow and all that kind of stuff.

Jam: And then with water, once again, when we take water from liquid to gas, we, we, uh, boil it up and evaporate it, we are introducing more and more energy. The molecules have more and more [00:06:00] freedom and ability to move around and they can, um, get further and further apart from each other and go into the air

Melissa: Right.

Jam: and disappear, at least seem to disappear completely.

Melissa: Perfect. So that's what we've set it up as every time. That's exactly how to describe it. You put enough energy in and it is able to move around more and more and more until it melts and then more and more and more until it becomes gas. And that's a great overview of the states of matter. But what we have only talked about a very little is that there's some room to play around with these states of matter.

Melissa: So we talked about supercritical fluid and how if you have really high temperatures but also really high pressure the states of matter get a little gray because it's not really acting like gas or liquid,

Jam: Mm hmm. Right.

Melissa: Well, similarly, pressure plays a role in that progression from a solid to a liquid to a gas.

Melissa: There's a [00:07:00] pressure at which, you know, things progress from solid to liquid to gas, but if you take away some of that pressure, it kind of messes with it a little bit. So, Do you remember the definition of boiling point? This goes way, way, way, way, way back to like I think when you couldn't get that pot of wild water to boil a

Jam: That was a while ago. It was like the first year of our podcast. Um, when steam pressure, um, overtakes atmospheric pressure?

Melissa: It's like equal to and overcoming.

Jam: Okay. Yes.

Melissa: So that means that atmospheric pressure can, if you take away pressure, you can boil at a much lower temperature.

Jam: Right.

Melissa: that also means if you're below a certain pressure. It almost sort of like eliminates the liquid step altogether because there is so little pressure that there never is a liquid state and things can go straight from solid to gas.

Jam: So, like, in a vacuum?

Melissa: It is molecule dependent so [00:08:00] for water that would be in a vacuum.

Jam: Ah,

Melissa: Can you think of something else that is a solid that immediately becomes a gas that you see regularly?

Jam: dry ice.

Melissa: Dry ice. So that process of going straight from solid to a gas is called sublimation.

Jam: Right.

Melissa: It

Jam: Yes. Also, dry ice is solid CO2, right?

Melissa: Yes, it's solid CO2. So like, that's what I mean by it being molecule dependent.

Melissa: So for dry ice at atmospheric pressure, it will sublime. It goes from A solid to a gas immediately. It just has to be cold enough to be a solid to start out with. That's another spooky part of this episode because people use dry ice to make fog and they'll put it in punch, which I don't know, I guess that's safe, but.

Jam: Yeah. I guess as long as you don't get a piece in there and then,

Melissa: I like put it on your mouth or something anyway, so spooky, um, dry ice. [00:09:00] So, yes. So it depends on the molecule, but for dry ice, you can do it at atmospheric pressure for water. You would need to take away some pressure

Jam: Mm hmm.

Melissa: get it cold enough so that it's sort of below that line where even getting into the liquid state is possible.

Melissa: And in chemistry, we have a thing that's, it's called a phase diagram. I remember so clearly, Ms. Mullis, my high school teacher, also was like, it looks kind of like a butt. So it's also called the butt diagram. And it has pressure on one side and temperature on the other, and it, it's like a curve with a line through it.

Melissa: And there's liquid or solid and then liquid and gas, you know, and if you're below a certain temperature. Temperature and pressure. I think pressure's this way, and temperature's this way. If you're below a certain pressure, it's like, the liquid form's not even possible.

Jam: Wow.

Melissa: so we have to get below that pressure to make water [00:10:00] sublime, but ultimately that is what freeze drying is.

Melissa: Drying is removing the water and we get it so cold and at a low enough pressure that you sublime the water right out of the substance. So you just get the water frozen and then you put it into a vacuum and then slowly start to heat it up and then as it's heating the molecules start to move around more but they are able so rapidly to overcome the vapor pressure that there is no liquid state because there's almost no pressure on them and so they just immediately go into the gas form

Jam: that was crazy.

Melissa: that's sublimation.

Jam: Interesting.

Melissa: that's freeze drying. This is a quick episode.

Jam: I never would have thought. That was it. I know.

Melissa: I know. It's so simple, but I'll tell you. So they sell these candies. This is part of why I bought them. They sell these candies at our local coffee shop. It's a, one of the favorite places that Mason and I go. It's one [00:11:00] of our local coffee shops. Jam doesn't endorse it, but I endorse it. It has a really good bagels.

Jam: Oh, I see

Melissa: And

Jam: now what, what we're talking about

Melissa: Yes. And they have had these on display for like over a year and I'll sit there. Every time I'm in line at the coffee shop and be like, but why does it look like that? And we haven't answered that question exactly yet. But so we'll get to that but then I'm like and but what even is it

Jam: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

Melissa: sit there and I'll wonder about it, but usually it's like you're about to be next in line or whatever There's no time to pull your phone out and then I go sit down and I work because it has a good atmosphere for working So I just sit and look at these frittles and be like what but what is it?

Melissa: And and I was so excited to get an answer.

Jam: Dang. That's

Melissa: It's

Melissa: so simple Yet, I never would have thought of it.

Jam: Yeah. Uhhuh.

Melissa: And they do this for coffee also. The other way that they make instant coffee, so there's two ways to make instant coffee. One is freeze dried, and it's the exact same process. And the other is like, what they call spray drying, where basically they get really small [00:12:00] droplets and they like, let it fall down hot columns to evaporate the water that way.

Melissa: But I, people say that the freeze dried instant coffee is a lot better, and I'm guessing that's because if it's getting cold, it's not degrading nearly as much as if it's being heated up on the way down. So, in both cases, they brew the coffee, and in one, they get the droplets small and then evaporate the water by heating, and in the other one, they get the pieces small and then evaporate the water by freezing it really cold and...

Melissa: Or sorry, yeah, they freeze it, get the pieces small, and then do the sublimation process where they eliminate the water by heating it under a

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: So both of them eliminate the water in just different ways, but if you have frozen coffee, I think it's much less likely to degrade than small droplets of liquid coffee.

Jam: right, right. Okay. Interesting.

Melissa: Yeah?

Jam: Wow,

Melissa: So do you want to take a stab at explaining that back to me? And then we'll talk about, then we'll speculate on why it [00:13:00] looks so weird. Which is kind of like your fun fact for understanding sublimation.

Jam: This is good. Uh, so things, a lot of things have water in them,

Melissa: True.

Jam: just tons of things

Melissa: Tons of things.

Jam: and water in normal circumstances in our atmosphere under the pressure that our atmosphere has behaves in a somewhat predictable way, you know, when it's cold under a certain temperature. It will become solid

Melissa: Mm hmm.

Jam: when it's above that temperature, it will become liquid when it's heated to boiling point, at least depending on the, where your atmosphere is, what, how altitude you're at, it will turn into steam,

Melissa: Mm hmm.

Jam: but if you want to mess with that and remove water without getting something crazy hot,

Melissa: Mm hmm.

Jam: you can mess with the atmospheric pressure that it's under And that is the key that somebody, some person at some point had the genius idea of how [00:14:00] to sort of freeze dry things while the dry parts kind of entry not makes more sense, but it's

Jam: like by freezing it, but then removing the water, then things can be back at room temperature like there are now.

Jam: And that state is fixed. Like, it's not like, Oh, you got to keep these free side things frozen in the, in the

Melissa: Cause the water's gone.

Jam: So they freeze them first.

Melissa: Mm hmm.

Jam: Right? And then as they warm it up, they warm it up in a much lower atmospheric pressure chamber of some kind, which would mean that it just would not be hard for the water inside of these frittles to reach its new boiling

Jam: point.

Melissa: unquote. Yeah. I mean it is like sort of like a boiling

Jam: Yeah, and where it just evaporates out, skips the liquid stage entirely, goes straight from the solid, because it is frozen at

Melissa: Mm hmm.

Jam: straight into gas, [00:15:00] sublimation, and then we're left with a weird leftover substance that has no water in it anymore and is changed, like irreversibly.

Melissa: Yes. Yeah. And, uh, there is a paper I read, um, I'll have to make sure I included it in the references. I didn't think I would mention it, but the way you said it just now is changed, made me think of it. That they looked at the chemical structure of the proteins in milk, which milk evaporated milk is either freeze dried or, um, spray dried, same as coffee.

Melissa: And they looked at the proteins in the milk after the drying process to see how they were changed and the two changed the milk differently. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Jam: Huh.

Melissa: like, that is wild and beyond my ability to think about. But so it is changed, um, it's, it is changed permanently. And we also use sublimation for purification in chemistry labs.

Melissa: So like there's a thing called ferrocene that sublimates, I think it's ferrocene. So you can, you can put it on like a Petri dish on a hot [00:16:00] plate and have something above it that will collect it and you can heat it up and it will sublimate and then it will hit the thing, you know, above it, that's cooler and condense down back into the solid and form crystals, you know, on the thing that's above it, but whatever else is on there, it won't supplement.

Melissa: You know, if there's impurities, not very many things will supplement at room temperature like that. So. You can leave the impurities behind. They'll melt before they'll sublimate up in, into the salad. So you're unlikely to get that same thing happening. I know. So we use it as purification technique, but it also is used as a preservation because once your water is gone from your food, it's going to stay good for a lot longer.

Melissa: It's very similar to dehydrating. I mean, in both dehydration and in this. The water's just taken

Jam: Right, right.

Melissa: That's the big difference, but in dehydration, you usually don't get such a stark change where it sort of looks like it's exploded outward like these [00:17:00] candies do. And so, can you think of a reason why?

Jam: I think I can.

Melissa: Okay.

Jam: I

Melissa: I'm afraid you're about to make a dumb

Melissa: joke.

Jam: no, no. I think I know, but I'm just like, I'm not sure if it's going to relate or not. But, um, my thought is because the water is going so rapidly from frozen to gas that it's like when something like boils over, you know, like you get all these bubbles and stuff like that. It's like this water is bursting out and having to escape.

Jam: Like, you know, like popcorn is like, you know, we have that like, um, Or I've seen when people put some even just like a liquid under in a vacuum and it behaves totally differently because you take all The air out all the atmosphere or most of it's gone and then suddenly

Melissa: It could boil a lot easier.

Jam: which is what supposedly hat what happened is the vacuum of space to our little bodies, but Is that it?

Melissa: That's pretty much it Yes As solid water turns into gas the molecules are expanding and so they're trying to escape and like in skittles There's this hard Outer [00:18:00] case that it's not going to be able to Escape out of because it's a solid coating case. And so it like pushes out just like popcorn but in these I think This was part of why I got these in the candy corn It's bigger But it doesn't have these like weird cracks in it in the same exact way And I think that's because there's not a hard shell

Jam: Ah, right.

Melissa: and same thing was like taffies and stuff They're just big, you know,

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: and that's freeze dried candy

Jam: that's so cool.

Melissa: I thought that was a fun one

Jam: So strange and interesting.

Melissa: know Mm hmm

Jam: whoever thought of that. I mean, I'm sure that this initial application was like, not as, not quite as fun, but it was more like, I mean, maybe it was a space program, you know?

Melissa: Who knows?

Jam: it's like, oh, we got to figure something

Melissa: have looked that up. I didn't even think to be like, where did this come from? You know?

Jam: yep, but dehydration makes sense that that's been done forever and people figure it out like, oh if we can just You know make jerky and this meat we can carry it around with us We won't have [00:19:00] to worry about it spoiling and rotting and stuff. It's like makes total sense

Melissa: We'd have to be able to have the technology to get the vacuum out Although I did read it was like how do you freeze dry candy at home? And some people talked about using like it's like I don't think there's truly a way

Jam: Uh huh.

Melissa: dry candy at home Maybe you can get a similar effect by getting it really cold but anyway, so Oh, that was fun.

Melissa: Um, but yeah, great guess on why it gets all bubbly and weird. That was really fun. Okay, so that's it. That's all I have for you. It's a short and sweet Get it episode in honor of Halloween a really fun one that I was really excited about and We can just wrap it up with a fun thing from this week, which we are ahead of Halloween though But I am wearing this in honor of Halloween about to be happening

Jam: right very soon what what's your thing you go first

Melissa: Oh, okay. I guess I will. I had a few that I couldn't decide between, but I landed on [00:20:00] a lot of my friends and my siblings have kids and lately they've been wanting to hang out with me. So like last time I was here, your son was like, Oh, why do you always have to come here and work with dad? When are you going to come hang out with me?

Melissa: And I was like, I mean, I'll come hang out with you. Are you inviting me? And so then we're like, we're going to go to dinner tonight together. And I'm really excited about that. Or my nephew. He likes to come over and, um, like play games at our house. So he called me this weekend. I was like, when can I come over and play games with you?

Melissa: And so I'm I'm starting to like schedule hangouts with my friends, kids on their request, and I'm like, it's just a fun thing for a little kid to want to hang out with you like. First of all, kids are on it. So if they didn't like you, they would not, you know, they don't hide it. And it's just so sweet, like to hear, you know, your little son be like, well, why don't you come here to hang out with me?

Melissa: Why aren't you gonna play with me? That's what I want to do, you know, and it's just like, oh, really? Yeah, so it's [00:21:00] just really sweet. And so, um, yeah, that's been something that's making me happy today. And I'm really looking forward to taking your son out after and... Here. As having dinner together. Yay! Yeah.

Jam: Um, my, as of last week, my mother in law came in, came to live with

Melissa: Yeah.

Jam: so that's been fun. It's been about a week, so when this comes out, it'll have been longer, but, um, yeah, she flew in. She had, she lived out of state, so she flew in, um, it'd been a thing we've been working on for a while. Just like. Pitching the idea, figuring out the logistics, all that kind of stuff, but yep, she moved down here and now my kids get to see her all the time.

Jam: We do too, of course, but like they, you know, they've, it's been really fun where they're like, Oh wow, like she's just here. She'll be here tomorrow too. You know, stuff like that, which is kind of fun for them to slowly realize like, Oh wait, she's just here. She's not just here for a couple of days and then leaving.

Jam: She's [00:22:00] here. Definitely. That's been fun. We've been prepping for that for a while and now that it's here, uh, it's been really fun and feels kind of surreal. And there's not like a lot of things like it kind of feels like once you are out of school or in your case, out of the multiple degrees that you did, you know, but like there's certain things that are like little ear markers of like, Oh wait, that might happen.

Jam: I'll look forward to that in a couple of years from like that. Um, but there's not always a lot of that stuff. It's like, Oh, sometimes adulthood is just like doing the same thing for like years at a time. It's like, just doing it, you know, working, hanging with friends, living, but there's not like a, there's not these chapter markers and stuff like that.

Jam: It's been kind of fun over the past year and a half looking forward to this, working toward it. And now finally, finally she's here. So yep. Got a full house. Yeah.

Melissa: people. And also when I walked in today, Emily was eating lunch and I was like, what is that? She's like chicken strips that my mom made. And I was like, [00:23:00] you are living the high life, dude. To have some chicken strips homemade for me. Wow. So that's really nice too.

Melissa: And she, she is so sweet. She's yeah, she before we recorded today's episode. She was walking down the door and said

Jam: Yeah.

Melissa: And I was like, oh she like whispered it cuz you didn't want Josh to hear is our jam. Sorry is so cute.

Jam: It's pretty funny because like, so she'll, she's asked me a few times that when I've seen her, she'll be like, um, What's the next episode y'all gonna do? And she's usually a few behind or whatever, but she'll be like, What's the next episode y'all gonna do? And sometimes I'll be able to like, Say, you know, we recorded this one that's coming out next week, But, uh, yesterday she asked me, She phrased it like, What episode are y'all gonna record tomorrow?

Jam: And I was like, remember Barb, like, I don't know, until, until we start. And she's like, Oh, right. Like, She forgets that that's like a thing that you kind of keep me in keep me the dark on or whatever and [00:24:00] so So but she was so curious. I was like, I wish I could tell you but I don't know

Melissa: Yeah

Jam: that's funny That's cool that she asked you

Melissa: so that oh that's a sweet one thanks for sharing that

Jam: Well, thanks for listening

Melissa: Yeah, well, also, um, thanks for listening to me about, about freeze dried candy and being willing to try these, putting up with me surprising you and purchasing something and bringing it to you from a coffee shop you don't like. Um, and thanks to all of you listeners for it.

Melissa: This is a great question. Thanks again, Sandra, for asking it. And thank you so much for suggesting ideas like this. It's just so fun that we get to do this every day. So

Jam: Man, I don't hate, I don't have surprises so much that I'm not gonna be like bah humbug about it. You know what I mean? So I'm not that kind of guy. But yeah. Anyway, thank you for surprising me with that. Thank you for teaching us about freeze drying and having some cool visual aids and some Uh, taste aids that we'll get to try in a little bit.

Jam: Most of the time I have a lot of ideas for topics of chemistry and everyday life, but we want to hear from you. Like we've said so many times, some of the best ideas come from you guys. So please send [00:25:00] those to us on our website at chemforyourlife. com. That's chem f o r y o u r l i f e dot com to share your thoughts and ideas and questions.

Jam: If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, you can go to patreon. com slash chem for your life, or tap the link in our show notes or the description to join our super cool community, chemmunity of patrons. If you're not able to do that, you can still help us by subscribing on our favorite podcast app, rating and writing a review on Apple podcasts, and also subscribing on our YouTube channel.

Jam: Those things help us to share chemistry with even more people.

Melissa: This episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Clooney and Jim Robinson and Jim Robinson is our producer. This episode was made possible by our financial supporters over on Patreon and. They get extra bonus episodes as well. It means, so if you want to listen to us eat this candy, head on over to check out Patreon.

Melissa: It means so much to us that you all want to make chemistry accessible to even more people and we cannot thank you enough. So, thank you to our supporters who are Avishai B, Bree M, Brian [00:26:00] K, Chris and Claire S, Chelsea B, Derek L, Emerson W, Hunter R, Jacob T, Christina G, Katrina H, Latila S, Lynn S, Melissa P, Nicole C.

Melissa: Rachel R, Stephen B, Shadow, Suzanne P, Timothy P, and Venus R. Thank you again for everything you do to make Chemistry for Real Life happen. And an extra special thanks to Brie, who often creates illustrations that go along with episodes of Chemistry for Real Life. You can see those over on our YouTube channel.

Melissa: And please thank Brie by following and supporting her at intropic. artstation. com and at Brie McAllister on Twitter. And I believe those are also in our show notes.

Jam: They are, and if you'd like to learn more about today's chemistry lesson, You can check out the references for this episode in our show notes or in the description of the video.

Melissa: Yay chemistry! Yay Halloween and spooky treats! [00:27:00]