Melissa: 00:09

Hey. I'm Melissa.

Jam: 00:10

I'm Jam.

Melissa: 00:11

And I'm a chemist.

Jam: 00:12

And I'm not.

Melissa: 00:12

And welcome to chemistry for your life.

Jam: 00:14

The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.

Melissa: 00:18

Okay, Jim. There's so much chemistry involved in today's episode.

Jam: 00:21

Good. Good. That's good. It is a chemistry podcast. So

Melissa: 00:26

It kinda came out of left field, then it was so chemistry y and so easy to find resources, so that was very exciting.

Jam: 00:32

Nice.

Melissa: 00:33

So I was on TikTok, and this video came up where a guy was like, happened to the dry cleaner? And he told a story about how he took this fancy jacket, and it still smelled really bad after he took it to the dry cleaner.

Jam: 00:42

Interesting.

Melissa: 00:43

And I the rest of the story doesn't really matter, but I was like, wait. What does happen at the dry cleaner?

Jam: 00:49

Right.

Melissa: 00:50

You know?

Jam: 00:51

Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa: 00:52

And And I was like, surely, it's not just, like, no liquid at all.

Jam: 00:56

Yeah.

Melissa: 00:57

And something in back of my brain made me think, I think this is chemistry. I think this is a lot of chemical solvents or something.

Jam: 01:03

Right.

Melissa: 01:04

Something back in here. So then I thought, I need to know what happens with the dry cleaner. Right.

Jam: 01:09

And you also thought, like, definitely, there was a chemist that I knew. And then you're like, wait. Wait. I'm a chemist.

Melissa: 01:15

Me. I'm the chemist. Yeah. Hi. It's me.

Melissa: 01:19

I'm the chemist. It's me. Okay. So Then I looked into it, and, of course, So Chemistry. Yes.

Melissa: 01:27

And also lots of resources.

Jam: 01:29

Okay. I'm very interested. I don't know anything about this.

Melissa: 01:31

You don't know anything about it at all?

Jam: 01:32

No. Partly because I'm just not a dry cleaning guy. Like, I'm one of those people who, like, avoids that and, like, Doesn't wanna have nice clothes, doesn't wanna put the work in,

Melissa: 01:40

doesn't wanna spend money clothes that last a long time.

Jam: 01:43

But doesn't want clothes that require that level of

Melissa: 01:45

High maintenance.

Jam: 01:46

Yep. Yeah. And doesn't wanna spend that kind of money on something regularly. You know? But this is continuing the theme of like, a couple episodes ago, we did something that reminded me of a bit from Seinfeld.

Melissa: 01:57

Oh, yeah.

Jam: 01:58

Again, quite recently watched an episode where he does a bit about direct leading. He basically says, like, I think it's just a scam. I think I think they're using something wet back there. They just don't want us to know. Something like that was Well, we haven't

Melissa: 02:11

Name this episode yet, but I do have written down in this, are clothes really dry clean only, or is that a scam? So maybe we could just make that the episode, the name of the episode. Yeah. Is dry clean only a scam?

Jam: 02:27

Is dry cleaning actually wet?

Melissa: 02:29

Okay. So that gets us into our first our first little bit of chemistry lesson.

Jam: 02:34

Okay.

Melissa: 02:34

So I think first, what I need to do is define what the what some chemistry terms are.

Jam: 02:41

Okay.

Melissa: 02:42

Okay. So in chemistry, We use the word solvent a lot, and we've talked about it on the podcast before, but it's basically anything that dissolves something else in it. Right? So solvent has, when we write it, it has a v. And when we write it on the board, I remember this so clearly from a high school.

Melissa: 03:02

We wrote s o l and then a huge v and then a small e n t, and then we wrote solute inside the solvent. Okay. Solute gets dissolved in the solvent.

Jam: 03:12

Got it. Got it.

Melissa: 03:13

So solvent dissolves things in it, solute. And a lot of times people are like, oh, chemical solvents, And they mean things other than water. But water is a chemical, and it is also a solvent. Right. So that kind of annoys me.

Melissa: 03:28

But I see what they mean. So solvents Usually is referring to chemical solvents

Jam: 03:33

Right.

Melissa: 03:34

That are not water or the chemical, other chemical solvents.

Jam: 03:37

Right. Got it.

Melissa: 03:38

So, like

Jam: 03:38

That's sort of just the the way it ends up being used out in the world. Is that okay. Got it.

Melissa: 03:43

Yeah. Now the next term I'm gonna define for you in chemistry is dry. So in chemistry, we often dry our non water chemical solvents.

Jam: 03:52

K.

Melissa: 03:53

And what that means for us is remove the water. Okay. So dry doesn't mean not wet. It means no water specifically.

Jam: 04:03

Right.

Melissa: 04:03

So we have these molecular sieves is what they're called that Attract water specifically. Uh-huh. They're like these little beads, and you put them in the oven so that all the water, like, evaporates off them. You basically bake all the water off of them, And then you drop those into your solvent to absorb any water that's hiding in your solvents. You have perfectly dry solvent.

Jam: 04:24

Interesting. Okay.

Melissa: 04:27

So dry cleaning, apparently, is actually just a dry, not water chemical solvent cleaning.

Jam: 04:34

Got it.

Melissa: 04:35

So it's dry because they're not using water. It's not dry because nothing is wet.

Jam: 04:41

Right. You you know what? It's funny. I'm sure that we'll have some listeners Who the this verbiage we've been using by dry and wet Uh-huh. Is gonna set off in their minds the, faux argument.

Jam: 04:53

This is, I believe, just one of those funny Internet things that's not really an actual argument

Melissa: 04:58

Okay.

Jam: 04:58

About whether or not water is wet. Have you heard about this?

Melissa: 05:01

No. I have not.

Jam: 05:03

It's just one of those things where you realize, like and and people get intense about this. They find themselves going down the rabbit hole, having a strong opinion on this very dumb question.

Melissa: 05:14

Okay. So is the thing that

Jam: 05:17

Is water wet is

Melissa: 05:18

the question. What's the argument? Like, Water gets other things wet, but it's not itself wet or wet?

Jam: 05:23

Yeah. It really comes down to splitting hairs about what you think the word wet means.

Melissa: 05:26

Oh, okay.

Jam: 05:27

Because people will say water's not wet. The yeah. That's one of the one of the stances. I'm I'm making somebody so mad right now. I'm like, listening is so mad, but They're saying water's not wet.

Jam: 05:41

It gets things wet. And so Okay. But my thought It's like but the wet would just mean that and then especially if we're talking about the chemical

Melissa: 05:51

Mhmm.

Jam: 05:52

Thing, some sort of ratio of presence of water. There's always there's lots of water everywhere. Right? But, like

Melissa: 05:57

We don't really call it wet. We just say, like, it's not a dry solvent.

Jam: 06:01

Right.

Melissa: 06:01

Right. Dry, I guess, does kinda mean wet.

Jam: 06:04

And in this case, it's funny because, like but then the question would be other liquids. So you take something that's not water. You pour all over

Melissa: 06:15

methane?

Jam: 06:15

Yep. You pour all over something else. Is that thing not wet just because it's not water?

Melissa: 06:20

You know?

Jam: 06:21

But it's really a splitting here about language, not about actual science sometimes. You know?

Melissa: 06:27

Yeah. Well and in this in science, if you pour Something all over, something else as long as there's no water in it. I mean, like, technically, sort of, you could say it's dry. Mhmm.

Jam: 06:47

So that's the thing that I think gets people riled up is, like Listen. All that stuff.

Melissa: 06:53

I feel neutral about this argument, which is surprising. Yeah. I feel like it's splitting hairs. And, also, maybe because my life is is made of Balancing between the scientific definition and the life definition. So so dry, my whole life has been not wet Mhmm.

Melissa: 07:09

Quote, unquote. But then But then in science, it's like a dry solvent is a liquid that has no water in it.

Jam: 07:15

Right. Right.

Melissa: 07:16

So, you know, So maybe they're both right.

Jam: 07:19

Here's my opinion. You wanna hear it?

Melissa: 07:21

I do. I think

Jam: 07:23

wet is an inherently Human word.

Melissa: 07:27

Mhmm.

Jam: 07:28

And it is because we are only humans. Most of us that can Or listening and talking and whatever else. And that it specifically refers to how things feel.

Melissa: 07:38

Okay.

Jam: 07:39

And not in a scientific way, but it shouldn't if you're a human And you touch a thing. You describe it as either wet or dry. And what and certain things, whether it's water or not, that are all over something. Say someone pours something that's not water all over your shirt.

Melissa: 07:58

Mhmm.

Jam: 07:59

It will feel Wet.

Melissa: 08:01

Yeah. I mean, I agree with that. Like, I think if I spilled dichloromethane all over some paper towels, I'd say that they were wet.

Jam: 08:08

Yep. Right.

Melissa: 08:09

But I will say I just Googled definition of wet, and it means covered or saturated with water or another liquid.

Jam: 08:16

Or did

Melissa: 08:16

you get it? So the dry cleaners are lying, but they're just using the chemical definition of dry.

Jam: 08:22

And they're not I don't think they're inherently trying to deceive to get back on topic. Seems like They are using it.

Melissa: 08:28

Was right.

Jam: 08:28

Yeah.

Melissa: 08:29

So they it is a scam, and there is there is something wet back there.

Jam: 08:33

Right. But surely the 1st 1st person to coin it Probably wasn't thinking Yeah. I'm a trick everyone to know and people all think that there's no Look at back here. I mean, that just seems unlikely to me.

Melissa: 08:46

That does seem unlikely. Well, maybe maybe the Internet people who are fired up about this will be excited because now they know the science definition and the colloquial definition.

Jam: 08:56

Yep. Yep. And

Melissa: 08:57

So they're both right.

Jam: 08:58

Yep. And I'm sure and I'm sure that that, you know, the Internet, is what defines us as humans.

Melissa: 09:15

So anyway so Seinfeld was right, and there is wet stuff. It's chemicals, but they're dry and that there's no Water.

Jam: 09:22

Okay.

Melissa: 09:23

This is the very that's just lesson number 1, so we should probably crack on.

Jam: 09:27

Okay. I don't think I have a lot of other things to contribute,

Melissa: 09:30

So I

Jam: 09:31

think it'll be okay.

Melissa: 09:31

So that really answers my first question of what happens at the dry cleaners, sort of. But then it's like, why are they using not water solvents?

Jam: 09:38

Right.

Melissa: 09:38

And Do you close really need that, or is it a scam? Is directly and only something a real thing? You know? I just have a lot of questions. So then I was like, what's up with this?

Melissa: 09:47

Yeah. So I found a really helpful video from the American Chemical Society. I'm gonna go I'm gonna use that as my outline, but go a little bit more in-depth on this. Okay. Okay.

Melissa: 09:57

So our chemistry lesson number 1 was the verbiage. K. Chemistry lesson number 2, clothes are all really just different types of Polymers. Okay. Who's surprised by that?

Jam: 10:11

I guess, the only one I'm surprised by is cotton maybe.

Melissa: 10:15

Cotton. So the 3 different types of polymers that make up clothes are synthetic, plant based, or animal based.

Jam: 10:22

Ah, okay.

Melissa: 10:23

And, Synthetic is you know, polyester is a good example or nylon.

Jam: 10:28

Yeah.

Melissa: 10:29

It's made from manmade fibers from hydrocarbons, and you can go learn all about that in our series.

Jam: 10:35

Uh-huh.

Melissa: 10:36

And so they have these monomers, these molecules. So large molecule made up by of a bunch of small molecules. And these monomers are just basically made up usually of carbons and hydrogens. And then plant based like cotton and linen

Jam: 10:52

Uh-huh.

Melissa: 10:53

It's cellulose, which is a polymer made up of glucose monomers.

Jam: 10:57

Okay. Okay.

Melissa: 10:58

It's but it's naturally occurring. There's all kinds of polymers occurring in nature.

Jam: 11:02

Right. Right. Right.

Melissa: 11:03

And then animal based, polymers are wool and silk, for example, they're proteins. So proteins are polymers. They're kind of weird, actually. They, sort of have 2 different types of material. You can think of them as a tube Where the coating on the outside of the tube is 1 material and the stuff inside the tube tube is different.

Melissa: 11:24

So I looked up. I was like this I feel like there's a candy that's like this. And the candy is called, is it's Tuberous. And I think it's not really an American candy, but it's like it looks like a sour straw filled up with with some kind of cream.

Jam: 11:42

Oh, interesting. Yeah. I feel like I've seen a version of that. Maybe there's different names for it. Yeah.

Jam: 11:50

Right there. I feel like I've seen that in, like, In the candy stores, they have a huge variety, you know, and maybe even some, like, past specialties.

Melissa: 11:58

Like the candy store on the square?

Jam: 11:59

Correct.

Melissa: 12:00

The other thing I thought of is sort of like a nerd rope. You know, the outside of it is like solid

Jam: 12:05

Yeah.

Melissa: 12:06

Nerds, and the inside is gooey, whatever.

Jam: 12:08

Yeah.

Melissa: 12:09

Okay. So those are kind of your 3 different, types of polymers that make up your clothes.

Jam: 12:14

K.

Melissa: 12:14

So chemistry lesson 3 is return of intermolecular forces. Why some things need to be dry cleaned and some things need to be water cleaned has to do with the way molecules interact with water.

Jam: 12:27

K.

Melissa: 12:28

So in the very 1st episode we ever talked about, we talked about polar and nonpolar molecules. Mhmm. A very brief review of that is polar molecules have an uneven distribution of their shared electrons.

Jam: 12:41

Right.

Melissa: 12:41

So they have poles, quote, unquote, where part of them are positive and part of them are negative.

Jam: 12:46

K.

Melissa: 12:47

And then nonpolar molecules, they evenly share their electrons, so there's no parts that are positive or negative. Theoretically, they're just all kind of neutral all the way around.

Jam: 12:57

K.

Melissa: 12:58

And polar molecules interact well with other polar molecules, and nonpolar molecules interact well with other nonpolar molecules. But polar molecules don't interact very well with nonpolar molecules.

Jam: 13:09

Right.

Melissa: 13:10

So the saying is like dissolves like.

Jam: 13:12

Mhmm.

Melissa: 13:13

It's easy for polar things to dissolve other polar things. That's why salt goes really well into water because both are, you know, polar sort

Jam: 13:20

of. Got it.

Melissa: 13:21

Okay. So, Anyone who's mad because salt is ionic bond, don't cover me. It's close enough. Okay. So Water is polar, and it wants other polar molecules.

Melissa: 13:34

Okay?

Jam: 13:35

K.

Melissa: 13:35

So let's keep that in mind and go back to the type of clothes and see what their polarities are.

Jam: 13:40

K.

Melissa: 13:41

So synthetic fibers are made from carbons and hydrogens which share electrons relatively well, And, those are not polar, so they don't interact with water well.

Jam: 13:54

K.

Melissa: 13:55

They're just carbons and hydrogens mostly. And so if you wash them in your water washing machine, they will the water will interact with it enough To form you know, to make soap work well with the detergent

Jam: 14:10

and Mhmm.

Melissa: 14:10

Get the grease and dirt off, and it'll wash away anything that's soluble easily in water. And if you're confused about how soap works, go back and listen to that 1st episode.

Jam: 14:20

Mhmm.

Melissa: 14:20

And it that will clean those clothes, And they usually dry pretty quickly. Like, my athletic clothes dry really pretty quickly.

Jam: 14:28

Right. And almost all artificial are Mhmm. Wait. But how do you

Melissa: 14:32

It's synthetic.

Jam: 14:33

Synthetic. There you go. I was like, there's a different word I'm trying I'm rooting for.

Melissa: 14:36

Fake. Yeah. Yeah. Synthetic dries pretty quickly.

Jam: 14:40

Right.

Melissa: 14:40

Sometimes, like, I just got a new shirt, and I noticed that I dropped some water on it, and it just, like, beat it up and rolled off kind of

Jam: 14:47

Yep.

Melissa: 14:48

Is because it's it's a synthetic fiber. So it's, you know, it's not quickly going to absorb into the material. Right. So then the other one plant based is cotton.

Jam: 14:58

K.

Melissa: 14:59

And so these have more than just carbon and hydrogen. There's oxygen and stuff in the in those glucose molecules.

Jam: 15:05

Mhmm.

Melissa: 15:06

And so they do interact with water well because they're more polar polar, so they absorb water quickly.

Jam: 15:13

Got it. Got it.

Melissa: 15:14

And so they'll get saturated. So those may take longer to dry, but they shouldn't have an issue in the in the wash at all. They should be able to interact with water and then dry off just fine.

Jam: 15:23

Got it.

Melissa: 15:24

I will say those can get, they can shrink with high temperatures if they're not preshrunk, but that's not because of the water. That's just because of the temperatures.

Jam: 15:32

Got it.

Melissa: 15:33

So don't use the hot water. Don't use the hot dryer if you're if you have nonsynthetic, you know, plant based fibers.

Jam: 15:40

Got it.

Melissa: 15:42

Okay. And then the third1, I talked about those tubes. Right? This is the most confusing one, and I'm gonna need you to use your brain to in visualize this.

Jam: 15:50

Got it. Okay. Engaging brain

Melissa: 15:53

now. Okay. So the outside tube of, like, wool or silk fibers, The the nerds on the nerd rope, the licorice on the tuberous part

Jam: 16:03

Yep.

Melissa: 16:04

That is not polar. Okay. So that doesn't interact with water well.

Jam: 16:11

Got it.

Melissa: 16:12

So, like, when a sheep's wool gets misty wet, That's not gonna soak into their fur or their wool. It's not gonna soak into your wool sweater. It kinda stays on top.

Jam: 16:24

Got it?

Melissa: 16:25

Have you ever noticed that with wool?

Jam: 16:26

Yes. I have. Yeah. I have some car to consider, I believe, at least partly wool. Mhmm.

Jam: 16:30

Like that. But

Melissa: 16:32

So that's because that outer edge is not polar.

Jam: 16:35

And my shoes are wool.

Melissa: 16:37

Oh, yeah.

Jam: 16:38

Duh. Didn't mean anything about that.

Melissa: 16:39

Okay. So your shoes are gonna be example of this. So that because the outer edge is not polar

Jam: 16:43

Mhmm.

Melissa: 16:44

They can repel water.

Jam: 16:46

Okay.

Melissa: 16:46

But if you put it enough water. Eventually, it will be able to get through and get to that middle part. And the middle part

Jam: 16:53

Mhmm.

Melissa: 16:53

So on our nerds' group example, this is like the gooey candy inside part. That is polar, and it does like water. So there's a Sort of a tube that's a barrier that keeps our water out or that doesn't interact well with water. And then but if it can if the water molecules can penetrate that polymer and get to the middle part of it, there it will be soaked up, and it will like to stay there because it's not gonna wanna pass through the barrier again.

Jam: 17:22

Got it. Okay.

Melissa: 17:23

So when those fibers get wet, they stay wet. Takes a long time for wool to dry.

Jam: 17:30

Right. Right.

Melissa: 17:31

And it's because it that water does not wanna go through the barrier of nonpolar polymer to get out.

Jam: 17:38

Right. And once it stay in there, it's easier Yeah.

Melissa: 17:40

So it'll just stay in as long as it makes sense to stay in.

Jam: 17:44

Right.

Melissa: 17:44

Okay. But also there's another layer to this, which is You know, if you have a nerd rope and you, stretch it out, the candy sort of starts to fall off and gets messed up. Mhmm. Something similar happens, except it's kind of the opposite, in your in your animal based fibers where As the water gets soaked up, that inside tube is getting fatter and fatter, meaning that the outside coating has to sort of Shrink up and get shorter to accommodate for the growing circumference because it's a limited amount of fabric. K.

Melissa: 18:20

So I'm gonna switch my analogy here.

Jam: 18:22

Okay.

Melissa: 18:25

If if you're happy with the nerd rope, When you stretch it out, it the candy falls off and the outside gets damaged. That's good enough. But did you ever have those, little finger gel things?

Jam: 18:36

Yes. I yes. Yes. Yes.

Melissa: 18:38

Okay. And if you pull them apart, they get skinnier. Yep. But if you push them together, they get fatter?

Jam: 18:44

Yes.

Melissa: 18:45

So that sort of happens. The the tube getting fatter sort of happens to the tube of your, wool fabric. So As the inside gets wet, it's getting fatter and fatter as it absorbs more and more water.

Jam: 18:59

K.

Melissa: 18:59

And so the tube gets shorter and fatter on the

Jam: 19:02

outside. Okay.

Melissa: 19:05

So sometimes when your clothes that are made of those kinds of fabrics get wet and they get to the like, fully soaked and the middle part gets saturated and gets fatter, Then the outer part of that thread will shrink up to accommodate for it, and your clothes get misshapen or shrink.

Jam: 19:29

Wow. Dang.

Melissa: 19:30

So that's why wools and silks are often dry clean only.

Jam: 19:35

Right.

Melissa: 19:35

Sometimes they're dry clean recommended, And that's because, you you know, now they're like blends where it's wool blended with something else that'll sort of help keep the shape. Yeah. Or they have special wool safe fabrics or whatever, or if you just be sure to reshape it after washing, then then, like, stretch it back out, then it should be okay. But others, it it's dry clean only because there's a possibility that it will become shrunken or misshaped.

Jam: 20:02

Got it. Got it. Interesting.

Melissa: 20:04

Isn't that interesting? Yeah. So dry clean only, not fully a scam. Right. But then I was like, well, what happens at the dry cleaner?

Melissa: 20:14

What do they do? What do these solvents do? How do they actually get our clothes clean? Yeah. So this is this is the part that I my mind was blown.

Melissa: 20:25

I was like Okay. Okay. So if you haven't listened to the soap episode, I need you to stop right now and go listen to her very first episode ever about soap.

Jam: 20:34

And forgive us for how different we sound and how, not used to being out of high school.

Melissa: 20:39

Yeah. It was wild back then.

Jam: 20:41

Mhmm.

Melissa: 20:41

It was 2019. I mean, it was, like, three and a half years ago.

Jam: 20:44

We're just kids.

Melissa: 20:47

I I didn't have a boyfriend, much less a husband, and Jim didn't have any babies.

Jam: 20:52

That's right.

Melissa: 20:53

Now he has 2. Mhmm. Okay. So for those of you who have listened or do have, you know, whatever, here's a very brief overview. Is the way that soap works is water washes away things that are polar, but grease and oil and a lot of dirt is not polar.

Melissa: 21:11

So soap sort of surrounds the molecules of the grease and dirt with, one side of the soap likes water and the other side of the soap likes oil and dirt, so the oil and dirt side surrounds it and leaves the water liking side on the outside, and then the water washes it away. Okay. Well, dry cleaning is kind of like the opposite. 1st, they use a nonpolar solvent to get out all the nonpolar, like, Dirt and grease should just wash away with this nonpolar solvent.

Jam: 21:41

Uh-huh.

Melissa: 21:42

And then for anything that once they dissolve in something polar, They'll use a detergent, so the detergent gets around the polar things. Uh-huh. And then the nonpolar solvent washes it away. So it's like you turn The soap micelle inside out.

Jam: 21:57

Interesting.

Melissa: 21:57

Isn't that cool?

Jam: 21:58

Yeah. It's crazy. So it really is trying to if you do the same the same thing in the sense that it it is still trying to tackle both polar and non polar things

Melissa: 22:06

Yes.

Jam: 22:06

But separately.

Melissa: 22:07

Yes.

Jam: 22:08

And in the opposite order.

Melissa: 22:10

Well, yeah, basically, with water, the water washes away anything polar, and anything nonpolar that's left behind, that's like grease stains on your sugar or whatever.

Jam: 22:18

Right.

Melissa: 22:18

That's where the detergent Should surround those molecules and wash them away.

Jam: 22:22

Yeah.

Melissa: 22:23

But if you have a dry clean only thing and it's a nonpolar coating, you wash then it's nonpolar situation. And then anything that's left behind would be water soluble, but you don't wanna get too much water Yep. On your wool sweater or whatever. So then you use detergent to get around the water soluble stain and wash it away with the solvent. Right.

Jam: 22:42

Right.

Melissa: 22:43

It's wild.

Jam: 22:44

That's crazy. Interesting.

Melissa: 22:45

I know. So that was exciting to me. Basically, it's inverse soap. It's like inverse photography, but inverse soap. But I I saw it in the inverse photography light in my mind, you know, when they do the negatives.

Melissa: 22:57

I was like, this is, like, negative soap. Yeah. So

Jam: 23:00

that was

Melissa: 23:01

exciting to me that that's what happens at the dry cleaner. So, really, they're doing the same thing. They have big drums. Just instead of water, they use solvent.

Jam: 23:10

Yeah.

Melissa: 23:11

There are other solvents chemical solvents that's not water. Yeah. So that's how that's what happens at the dry cleaner. And so now, like I said, some things some wool is treated. It's blended with other things.

Melissa: 23:24

They have, like, wool safe detergent, things like that, so you don't have to always go to the dry Clean. If it says dry clean only, that might be when that's important. But other things might be dry clean recommended. You could probably get away without it.

Jam: 23:36

Yeah.

Melissa: 23:37

The other thing though is if you get soaked with water in your animal protein fibers, it could shrink it up or mess it up, like, if you're out camping or something. So Right. That's something to keep in mind is your wool should probably be an inner layer, and you should probably have a water repellent outer layer. And then also last but not least, sort of a fun fact, if you will. Some synthetic Fibers dissolve in the solvents that they have the dry clean for.

Jam: 24:05

Uh-huh.

Melissa: 24:06

It's like it breaks up the polymer. So you probably don't wanna dry clean your synthetic fibers. You should not. They can be washed in the water just fine anyway.

Jam: 24:15

Interesting.

Melissa: 24:16

So that's all of my fun facts about dry cleaning.

Jam: 24:20

Dang. That's crazy.

Melissa: 24:22

Isn't that so much science? Yeah.

Jam: 24:23

It's very different than I That I thought I don't know what I thought it was gonna be, but you know?

Melissa: 24:27

It's very different.

Jam: 24:28

Yeah.

Melissa: 24:29

Basically, it's just the water will mess up your clothes. Yeah. So you had to find a way to clean it without water? Yeah. The other thing you could do I have a wool sweater.

Melissa: 24:38

I don't even know if this is dry clean. I've never looked. I probably should. It was a hand me down, but I always wear a shirt under it. So it's kind of like a jacket, it doesn't need to be washed very often.

Jam: 24:51

Yeah.

Melissa: 24:51

Right. Like an added layer for warmth. It's like a, oh, on the coldest days, I bust this out, and I wear it, you know, over my undershirt or whatever. So, yeah, I've washed it as frequently as a jacket that I wear a lot. You know?

Jam: 25:04

Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa: 25:05

So I always I also do that. Now I wanna go look and see if it's dry cleaned.

Jam: 25:09

Yeah. Interesting.

Melissa: 25:12

So that's my those are our Those are our dry clean fun facts. Do you wanna take a stab at sharing these chemistry lessons back with me?

Jam: 25:19

Yes. There's a lot of them. So I'm gonna figure gonna forget something.

Melissa: 25:24

That's okay. I'm here to help.

Jam: 25:26

I think the way that makes the most sense to me is to kinda go in the order you went in. 1st, sharing about the different types of polymers we that our clothes are made up of. Mhmm. And that unlocked a lot of things because you realize The real difference is not just in how it's made and how abundant it is or cheap or whatever Yeah. But that it makes a difference in in the The makeup of it in a way that matters to washing it, cleaning it.

Jam: 25:49

So synthetic being, nonpolar through and through.

Melissa: 25:54

Yep.

Jam: 25:54

So nylon, polyester. Cotton being polar. Mhmm. So meaning Works quite well with water.

Melissa: 26:04

Yeah. Absorbs water pretty quick.

Jam: 26:06

Yeah. Pretty quick. And then even on the non polar side with the synthetic stuff with soap, we should be able to Yeah. Get up in there and stuff like that. Yeah.

Melissa: 26:16

I think the thing with synthetic. You know? It might not absorb water very quickly, but it can be, enough water. If it's in enough water, the we'll get any of the surface level dirt and grime off.

Jam: 26:28

Right. Right.

Melissa: 26:28

But I will say sometimes, like, with my athletic clothes that I really work up a stench, sometimes I have to, like, pretreat them to make Sure.

Jam: 26:35

Right. Yeah. And so, basically, it wouldn't really permeate into the fibers of it, but it would get between.

Melissa: 26:41

Yeah.

Jam: 26:42

Say something like that. And then on the animal side, not the plant. So cotton is a kind of main main plant one.

Melissa: 26:48

Mhmm.

Jam: 26:48

Animal side, like, wool and silk and stuff. Right? Is, The wool has, like, this nonpolar outer tube

Melissa: 26:58

Yep. That doesn't like water.

Jam: 26:59

Doesn't like water, And then an inner polar filling, so to speak.

Melissa: 27:05

Mhmm.

Jam: 27:06

And that if water does get Through that non polar layer on the outside

Melissa: 27:10

Mhmm.

Jam: 27:11

And, right, and finds the the polar place on the inside. And then it's kinda happy, and so is the inside. It likes the water. They like each other. Water wants to stay in there.

Melissa: 27:21

Mhmm.

Jam: 27:22

And so when that does happen with our wool stuff, It gets real wet, doesn't wanna dry, and, it starts to affect the shape of not only just the garment as a whole, but at the very individual sort of fiber level.

Melissa: 27:37

Yes.

Jam: 27:38

It gets, full and saturated with some water, and then it kind of, Does the the finger trap situation

Melissa: 27:46

Yes.

Jam: 27:47

Where it gets thicker, and so it Shrinks its length Yes. To accommodate or whatever.

Melissa: 27:55

Like, the circumference gets bigger, so the length gets shorter.

Jam: 27:59

Right.

Melissa: 27:59

So it's a finite amount of material.

Jam: 28:02

And so if these and who knows how this is all discovered, but I'm sure that there was some Early before they even understood all the science to this, some early idea of, like, okay. Certain clothes of clothing need to be cleaned a different way.

Melissa: 28:18

Yeah. They

Jam: 28:18

keep kinda getting messed up when we clean this way.

Melissa: 28:20

Yep.

Jam: 28:21

And so dry cleaners, specifically on the side of, like, wool stuff

Melissa: 28:28

Mhmm.

Jam: 28:29

And other fibers like that are a real benefit because they spray A different non water kind of solvent on it.

Melissa: 28:39

I think they soak it in it. I think it gets washed

Jam: 28:41

like Soaked.

Melissa: 28:41

I think it's washed, like, in a washing machine, but with

Jam: 28:44

Wow.

Melissa: 28:45

Solve it instead of I think based on the animation I saw.

Jam: 28:48

That makes so so much sense. I don't know why. I still imagined it being, like, not submerged.

Melissa: 28:52

Yes.

Jam: 28:52

Is it, like, the directly thing? So they submerge it in this other nonpolar Mhmm. Solvent. That's

Melissa: 29:00

not water. That's Water.

Jam: 29:01

That's not water.

Melissa: 29:02

So it's dry, quote, unquote.

Jam: 29:04

Yeah. Quote, unquote, dry as they would last to believe. I'm sure it feels wet, if you put your hand in it. But And it is able to clean off stuff and dissolve stuff Mhmm. Without, getting into the the inner tube section of the, those fibers because it doesn't want to anyway because the intersection inner Area is polar.

Jam: 29:29

Yep. And this solvent is nonpolar. Yep. And so it does that without getting up in the fibers in a way that Messes with their shape.

Melissa: 29:38

Yep.

Jam: 29:38

Just cleans them without that.

Melissa: 29:41

Exactly.

Jam: 29:42

And that is Direct cleaning.

Melissa: 29:47

The only part you missed is they also will add detergent to the solvent that gets any polar, Stains out.

Jam: 29:55

Right. Right. Okay. Got it. Yeah.

Jam: 29:56

Yeah.

Melissa: 29:57

And if you wanna know how that works, it's the film negative of how soap works, go listen to episode 1. Right. And it's pretty amazing. I was really excited about that.

Jam: 30:06

It's so interesting because I feel like what's funny is in a lot of our clothing, we're actually getting Non polar stains.

Melissa: 30:12

Yeah. Grease stains. I get grease stains so bad. Mhmm.

Jam: 30:16

Yeah. And so it's funny to think about they're like, of course, the opposite could happen though. Like Mhmm. On a wool piece, something polar would stay in this nonpolar at least the outside of that fiber is not polar. And

Melissa: 30:29

And your nonpolar solvent's not taking it away Mhmm. Because it's polar. Yeah. Yeah. I also I wondered about, like, what, like, odor molecules from our body.

Melissa: 30:40

You know? Like, things that smell like sulfur y or whatever. I sulfur, I think, would be would tend to be polar depending on what it's surrounded by.

Jam: 30:49

Uh-huh.

Melissa: 30:49

And so I'm like, is that what the detergent really does is it gets out the bad smell? And so then I wondered about that jacket that he said Still smelled bad afterwards?

Jam: 30:58

Right.

Melissa: 30:58

Did they just not use detergent? They just only use the pull the polar solvent or something?

Jam: 31:03

Right. Or maybe he had a, maybe the smell, the bad smell, was a molecule like soap that it has both polar and nonpolar. And so these 2 separate stages didn't touch It was like

Melissa: 31:15

Maybe maybe so.

Jam: 31:16

We had a very unique, very resilient

Melissa: 31:19

smell. I mean, I don't know what else could be not polar. Like, it's polar and not polar, so I don't know why. Yeah. Don't know how.

Melissa: 31:26

And I think they put the detergent in, and then they just like with soap and water, they put soap and then Solve it. So there should at all points, you should be able to get that out.

Jam: 31:35

Right.

Melissa: 31:35

So that was the only thing I could think is they didn't do the detergent stage. They only did The nonpolar solvent stage, and they never put soap in, basically.

Jam: 31:43

Oh, yeah. I see.

Melissa: 31:44

So that was out because so many stains are nonpolar. Maybe they maybe they sneakily get away with that.

Jam: 31:50

Who knows? Yeah.

Melissa: 31:52

There is another little bit of interesting fact is, you know, a lot Lot of times, non water chemical solvents can be dangerous.

Jam: 31:59

Uh-huh.

Melissa: 31:59

And so there are, some questions about the safety, especially for the workers who run dry clean solvent a lot, so, I'll probably still not use dry clean. Yeah. But I'm excited to know

Jam: 32:18

dry clean a lot.

Melissa: 32:19

Yeah. Definitely. Yep. What about your shoes? Are you just supposed to spot clean them?

Melissa: 32:23

I think you can get away with spot cleaning.

Jam: 32:25

So that's where it's what's tough is because this is a blend, I'm pretty sure.

Melissa: 32:30

Yes. Blends are a little bit

Jam: 32:32

I know the instructions for these are to wash them in the washing machine.

Melissa: 32:35

Probably because it's a blend. I didn't have that included. They're treated or blended.

Jam: 32:38

Yeah. But then I think, I think you air dry I can't remember. I these are relatively new. I haven't had to wash them yet. But, Anyway, I have washed a pair of these in the past, but I can't remember.

Melissa: 32:51

The oh, I wonder if you have to be sure to shape them back guess that's part of it.

Jam: 32:55

Right. Right.

Melissa: 32:56

That'd be interesting.

Jam: 32:57

It'd be so.

Melissa: 32:58

Great. Well, good job, telling me back those chemistry lessons. I appreciated your summary. I thought that was good. And I liked this episode.

Melissa: 33:06

I kinda feel like it, again, got back to some of our roots of, like, An actual chemistry lesson and then applying it to something. Yeah. So that was fun? Yeah. Speaking of fun things, is there anything fun from your week you wanna share about?

Jam: 33:18

Yes. Something fun happened in my week that I'd love to share about. It will seem to some as something that is not very fun, but to me was, thank you very much. So, you know, around here you know, around here, we love cast Around the 50th parts.

Melissa: 33:37

To those fateful episodes.

Jam: 33:38

Uh-huh. A 100% of the chemistry free life hosts love. Gotcha.

Melissa: 33:43

And exclusively use them.

Jam: 33:45

Yep. Exactly.

Melissa: 33:46

No Teflon in our homes.

Jam: 33:48

Not a chance. I do have a one stainless steel pot and aluminum.

Melissa: 33:52

Stainless steel

Jam: 33:53

Window coated cookware. Yeah. Of any kind. So, a friend of ours that we'll sign out Was having trouble with their cast iron skillet. And so I was like, why don't you drop the Cast iron skillet off at the cast iron spa here in my house.

Jam: 34:13

Leave it for a few days and then pick it up. And so I got to reseason. I I stripped their pan all the way down Mhmm. In the on the oven clean setting, and then Re seasoned it, and I did about 7 layers. Yeah.

Jam: 34:30

Because it's always frustrating. I mean, like, when you redo it and you've had a lot of layers or whatever, It it's fine to just start off with, like, 1 just 2 layers like that, but Dang it. I'm gonna hiccup some weird sounds. It's fine. You can just go start using, obviously, with, like, 1 or 2 layers or whatever.

Jam: 34:51

But When you're if you've used it for a long time and you're used to it, it's like well seasoned stuff and someone just reset the clock for you.

Melissa: 34:57

And if you don't know how To season it well than having a good barrier?

Jam: 35:02

Yeah. Having, like, a like, a lot a lot of layers. Yeah. So you can click on it, and you could could actually sort of undo a layer or 2, and there'd still be a good

Melissa: 35:10

Yeah.

Jam: 35:11

Established

Melissa: 35:11

foundation. A nice lots of thin layers This is

Jam: 35:14

what we

Melissa: 35:14

know is important.

Jam: 35:15

Mhmm. Lots of very thin as thin as humanly possible layers of these this polymer. And it was so fun. And what I might do, we used to do sometimes, we'll sort of post things we reference on the Oh, yeah. On our fun things of the week.

Jam: 35:31

I have a A picture of the pan, bare iron right after I shipped it. Uh-huh. And a picture of it 7 layers later.

Melissa: 35:38

It's so satisfying. Fine.

Jam: 35:40

I actually have a picture for almost every layer, but that's a little bit too granular. I think it's cool to look at the first and last one. So maybe we'll post those.

Melissa: 35:47

I think you should yeah. Send it to me, and I'll post it. Jam showed it to me, and I was like, oh, that feels good.

Jam: 35:52

It's just so fun. And I was like, I love doing this. Like, I may be

Melissa: 35:54

Do you wanna do my cast iron?

Jam: 35:56

And I would love to. I think the thing is funny is that I bet if I had, like, a dozen suddenly, I'd get annoyed with it. Yeah. But doing, like, 1 Yeah. At a time like that It's fun.

Jam: 36:04

And I

Melissa: 36:04

How did you do it on a cold day so that having your oven that hot for that long just heated up your whole house and you could save energy?

Jam: 36:11

That would've been awesome. We have been having some somewhat moderate weather here. Yeah.

Melissa: 36:15

It's 80 degrees Fahrenheit today. Yeah. Kill me. Yeah. Don't actually, please.

Melissa: 36:20

I like living.

Jam: 36:20

Oh, 73. Oh, the

Melissa: 36:22

high is supposed to be 80.

Jam: 36:24

Are you sure?

Melissa: 36:25

Listen. I don't believe you.

Jam: 36:27

No. Am I sure? No.

Melissa: 36:31

Monday this week, it was supposed to be. And for those of you who are non Fahrenheit, That's in the 25 range. Okay? We're roughly we're in the mid to high twenties here, sadly. What a bummer.

Jam: 36:48

I, wish I could've done it that way. And one thing I did do though is I Just did I didn't have to completely strip them, but I did try to take advantage of the fact that my oven's gonna be that hot

Melissa: 36:59

Yeah.

Jam: 36:59

A few times. And I did some layers on my cast iron too.

Melissa: 37:02

Nice.

Jam: 37:03

Just because why not?

Melissa: 37:04

Why not?

Jam: 37:04

Not gonna hurt at all. Only gonna help. And so I did it so that as much cast iron was getting the benefit of the hot oven as possible.

Melissa: 37:12

I did have a sort of, I posted this on Instagram, but a silly thing happened where it became very apparent to me that my seasoning layer isn't good. It's good enough for some things, but I scrambled some eggs, and it was not pretty.

Jam: 37:28

So Yes. Yes.

Melissa: 37:29

So I probably should pop mine in the oven, but our our oven heats up our whole apartment.

Jam: 37:35

And great.

Melissa: 37:36

So it's just kinda miserable.

Jam: 37:38

Well, if you could part with the pan for a couple days, I would love to do it because it's fun, not because you don't know how to do it. Because you do know how.

Melissa: 37:44

I do know how.

Jam: 37:45

You know what you're doing. But if you wanted to not do it and you want it to be done for you, I would do it.

Melissa: 37:49

Set the cast iron spa. Jam's cast iron spa. Mhmm. Cute.

Jam: 37:53

That's one of those things that is, like Like, unless you're really into cast iron and some culture, kinda they always be like, what the heck is that? A cast iron spa? That does not sound relaxing. You know?

Melissa: 38:05

That's funny.

Jam: 38:06

Okay. What about you? What fun thing did you do do during your week? Is it less nerdy than mine?

Melissa: 38:11

Yeah. It's less nerdy.

Jam: 38:12

Okay.

Melissa: 38:12

But you know what? You already know about it, so that's kind of a bummer.

Jam: 38:15

But Oh, yeah. I hate when I already know.

Melissa: 38:17

I'm just gonna But I so my husband and I Our, like, our lives are too crazy. We need to rein it in. Uh-huh. And so one of the things we're doing is, trying to have, like, a Less technology Saturdays?

Jam: 38:30

Yes.

Melissa: 38:31

And so this past Saturday was our first one, and we, like, planned it all out. And, Then I re I know Jim and his wife also do that. Yes. So we kinda randomly were like, hey. We texted them up.

Melissa: 38:44

Hey. Are you also, doing this. Yeah. And they were about to start a walk, and we'd wanted to go on a walk. So we just drove over to their house, and we had a no cell phones walk.

Melissa: 38:54

And we got donuts, and his son picked up so many rocks.

Jam: 38:59

Uh-huh.

Melissa: 39:00

And, his other The sun is so small, and I got to hold him. He looked really cute. And then he had, like, a little teddy bear type onesie because it was kinda chilly, so that was really cute. So we had a really good time. It's so peaceful.

Melissa: 39:13

We walked. We got donuts. We got coffee. Then we sat at the park for a while, and It was just really nice. It was just a, like, sweet little day, and I really enjoyed it.

Melissa: 39:23

So, and impromptu. Like, it wasn't planned. You know? And I had a few of those impromptu hangouts in the last week where it'd be like, I'd just call somebody up and be like, oh, I haven't seen you since November. Do you wanna go grab dinner?

Melissa: 39:36

Yes. Yeah. That's been nice.

Jam: 39:39

Yeah. That's cool. That was very fun. We love Doing those days, we love getting to hang out with you guys. We also love just having a day where we've decided ahead of time.

Melissa: 39:49

Yeah.

Jam: 39:49

You know, very low tech. Let ourselves, you know, recharge.

Melissa: 39:53

No plan. I love looking up and there's not a plan. It's like, you can do anything because my life is so busy. You know?

Jam: 39:59

You gotta make room for it. It's really hard. Like, I have to get ahead and think, okay. I'm not gonna work on that day. Yep.

Jam: 40:04

I'm not gonna work. So I gotta get ahead. Yeah. But it is always worth it when I pull it

Melissa: 40:08

Yeah. For sure. And, then it made us realize that I'm gonna be out of town every weekend in February, so chaos. Yeah. But it's so it's kind of like preparing.

Melissa: 40:17

We're taking a slow period to prepare for the crazy period coming up. So Right. Awesome. Well, thanks, Jam, for letting us come and hang out with you and for learning about dry cleaning. It was so fun.

Melissa: 40:30

I really enjoyed it, and thanks to all of our listeners for, being along for the ride of me getting excited about who knows what chemistry thing every week.

Jam: 40:39

And thank you for teaching us and for solving solventing

Melissa: 40:45

the mystery know.

Jam: 40:48

What the heck EVA dry cleaning is? And for once and for all settling the Internet debate of is water wet. Wilson, I have a lot of ideas for chemistry in everyday life, but wanna hear from you. If you have a question or ideas, please reach out to us on our website atchemforyourlife.com. That's fem, f o r, your life.com to share your thoughts and ideas.

Jam: 41:05

If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, go to patreon.com/chem for your life, or check the link in our show notes to join our super cool community of patrons. If you're not able to do that, you can still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast app and rating and writing our view on Apple Podcasts. That also helps us share chemistry with even more people.

Melissa: 41:24

This episode of Chemistry For Your Life was created by Melissa Collini and Jam Robinson. Jam Robinson is our producer, and this episode was made possible by our financial supporters over Patreon. It means so much to us that you all want to help make chemistry accessible for even more people. Those supporters are Avishai B, Brie M, Brian K, Chris and Claire S, Chelsea B, Derek L, Emerson W, Hunter R, Jacob T, Christina g, Lynn s, Melissa p, Nicole c, Steven b, Shadow, Suzanne s, Sam n, Steven b and Timothy p, thank you again for everything you do to make chemistry for your life happen.

Jam: 42:06

We'd also like to give a special thanks To our viewers who reviewed this episode before it was released, and if you'd like to learn more about today's chemistry lesson, check out the references for the episode in our show notes or on our website.