Is crying chemistry? (the fascinating science of tears)
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Okay, Jim. Today, we're gonna do something a little bit different.
Jam:Okay. Different can be scary. So but also cool. So
Melissa:Scary, definitely, but good.
Jam:Okay. Good. Okay. I'm good for good different.
Melissa:Yeah. Definitely good different. So I was trying to decide on an episode topic. And the reason that I I'm always excited for episodes is because I choose topics that I'm excited about because that makes for a good podcast episode.
Jam:I totally get that. You being excited about it, being excited about the research, being excited about writing it, putting it together makes Yeah. It fun, which makes the the experience for the listener better also.
Melissa:Right. A 100%. So I had all these episode ideas, and I just wasn't feeling any of them. And then our friend and My neighbor, Miriam, who loves to ask science questions but never listens to this podcast, so we are mad at her for that.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Because she asked questions and then won't listen to our answers. Yes.
Jam:But she did bring ice cream sandwiches to our small group yesterday, and so you kinda have to balance those things out. You know?
Melissa:Oh, that's kinda fun. Yeah.
Jam:So, like, yes, she doesn't
Melissa:listen sandwiches. Wow.
Jam:Yeah. She doesn't listen to podcasts, but she does bring things like ice cream sandwiches to places, so who's to say? You know?
Melissa:She also did really significantly aid in the completion of My dissertation draft, which we'll talk about at the end.
Jam:Got it. So she does kind of balance out some of her sins, so to speak.
Melissa:A 100%. So she walked by, and she was giving me some episodes ideas. And I was like, meh, meh, meh. And then she said, What about the chemistry of tears? Like, how tears look different under a microscope based on, like, what caused the tears?
Jam:Woah. I never even heard that.
Melissa:I hadn't heard it either. So I went and looked it up, and it turns out that that is a little bit incorrect, but also a little bit not the microscope part, but tears do look sort of different based on different situations, or they are composed of different things.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:And then I learned that tears are so much more. I I don't know why. Maybe this is kind of naive, but I was just sort of functioning under the assumption that tears were salt and water.
Jam:Yes. Same. Because
Melissa:that mostly that's what was in our eyes.
Jam:Yeah. Same. I've always thought that too because basically that's my understanding what, like, contact solution is. Right. And so I thought, that must be basically what tears are because my eye Right.
Jam:Is very, Accepting of this liquid. Right. Of
Melissa:course. That yes. That was my exact same thought process.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:No. There is so much chemistry in the liquid of our eyes, and it is so much more. There is salt and water, but there is so much more than salt and water in our eyes. And there is so much more to tears than salt and water coming out of our eyes.
Jam:Interesting. Okay. Okay.
Melissa:So there's only a small chemistry lesson in this, But everything I'm gonna talk about is facts about the chemistry of our eyes, so it's kind of that's where it's kind of different. Yeah. And the chemistry lesson is one that you've actually already had several times. So it's kind of just a new application of an old lesson.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So let's get into it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:1st of all, in our eyes, there's constantly what's known as, Like a tear layer. And, I apologize in advance to ophthalmologists or people who who study eyes. This was my Best interpretation, if I'm oversimplifying it or if I'm not using the proper terms, I'm doing my best, and please feel free to write in on a q and r. We love to hear from you.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:But I did get this from a textbook about, the physiology of crying, basically.
Jam:Okay. Okay. It was legit.
Melissa:There's what's known as what I saw in literature in this book as a quote, unquote, tear layer
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:In our eyes. And this is actually made up of 3 smaller layers.
Jam:K.
Melissa:And they are very, very, very thin. So a micrometer. So like a very small fraction of a meter. There is a mucus layer that's the closest to our eyeball. That's 1 micrometer.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:I don't really a 100% know what mucus is. So The chemistry of that one, I'm a little unclear on. I'm assuming based on the texture of it that it's nonpolar. And then the next layer is an aqueous layer. So that's most likely made up of water and salt.
Melissa:Usually, when things are called aqueous, that's water based with things dissolved in it. Okay. And that's actually the thickest layer. It's 5 to 10 So it's significantly thicker than the mucus layer.
Jam:And
Melissa:then the very thinnest layer, the outermost layer that's closest to the outside world is a lipid layer. And lipids are fats that are nonpolar, And it's about 0.2 micrometers thick. So a fraction of a fraction of a millimeter, basically.
Jam:Wow. Dang.
Melissa:So very, very thin, and I didn't know that there was fat In our eyes, that's amazing to me.
Jam:Yeah. Seriously. Dang.
Melissa:So within all of those tiers, the tier layer mixed up there is a mixture of electrolytes, so, like sodium, potassium ions, maybe chlorine, other things like that. So, basically, salts is what we would call them. They're just ions that float around in the positive and negatively charged states that Counteract each other and interact with each other. Mhmm. And then there are also organic molecules, but they're pretty small organic molecules.
Melissa:So they're not really, like, Big polymer type molecules. They're small like glucose, urea, other hormones, and then some of these fats are in our eyes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And there's also proteins, and some of those proteins are enzymes that are in our tear fluid.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:There are more than 400 proteins that have been identified in human tier fluid.
Jam:Dang. Wow.
Melissa:400 different proteins. Dang.
Jam:I don't
Melissa:think I even knew there was 400 different proteins that existed. I don't know a lot about Hi, Kim. I was not in the best place as a student that year. Right. And I
Jam:know even
Melissa:less. Amazing.
Jam:Yeah. So 4 100 seems really impressive to me because I hadn't
Melissa:Me 2. So that's amazing. Yeah. So I thought that was really interesting. And the one thing that I really like This is a direct quote from a paper.
Melissa:Uh-huh. It's a 2011 paper, and it's kind of on theme lately, like, when we talked about lobsters with How much there's left that we don't know?
Jam:The
Melissa:quote is our current understanding of the repertoire and function of tear film proteins Remains limited.
Jam:Dang. Weird.
Melissa:And so 2011, they published a statement that these are pretty we have pretty limited understanding Yeah. Of what's going on in our in our in a peer reviewed journal. So in our scientific Collective understanding is very limited.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:But what got me so excited about that is that means that our tears are like A variety of chemicals. They're just a bunch of chemicals floating around in our eyes. Just a bunch of molecules that are Polar and nonpolar. There's there's salts. There's organic molecules.
Melissa:That's just so cool to me.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. And that is crazy. It's, like, so easy easily overlooked too. It's just, like
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Not the thing that most of us would ever think about. We would we would all assume it's really simple probably, and, yeah, just never think it's complicated. Never think it'd be a bunch of layers, bunch of proteins, all that stuff.
Melissa:And so much research about tears. Yeah. So now I wanna ask you to this is your chemistry lesson, and this is I do wanna say this is chemistry off the cuff. So I could not find a peer reviewed journal article that confirmed this, but I'm very confident or pretty confident in why this happens in my own understanding.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:Can you think of a reason why The lipid layer and the aqueous layer can stay separated in our eyes.
Jam:It sounds like it would be because the aqueous layer is Polar because it's made of of a bunch of water, and then the lipid layer is nonpolar because it's Made up of fats. And without something to help those things interact, they do not want to in any way interact.
Melissa:Exactly. I'm so excited. I had a feeling you'd be able to get that. You've learned so much chemistry over the course of listening to this show.
Jam:Also, there's, like, this part of me that I don't remember a lot of, like, biology stuff Or whatever. But I know that the outer layer of cells, like animal cells and human cells that are Mhmm. Are, that we have as is a lipid layer That keeps the cell together. Keeps things in and keeps those stuff out and, you know, just basically keeps it being a cell and keeps everything from just Yes. Falling apart and going everywhere.
Melissa:So that The lipid bilayer?
Jam:Yes. So that's kinda in my brain somewhere still of thinking too, like, oh, that those make great layers. You know?
Melissa:Yeah. Lipids make great layers. That's a good point. I hadn't connected it to that. That's a that is a good point.
Melissa:So, yes, I agree. I think it would have to do with 2 things. I think they may be actually secreted by different glands into our eyes, but it would also probably have to do, I would think with density, letting them separate as well. I guess it's vertical, though. So that kinda makes it hard.
Melissa:But Yes. So those 2 things don't like to interact because the intermolecular forces between polar and nonpolar molecules are difficult. So if this is your first time ever listening to Chemistry For Your Life. We have spent a lot of time talking about polar molecules and nonpolar molecules. And, essentially, polar molecules have an uneven distribution of electrons, making there be some positives and some negatives Parts just like a magnet on your molecule.
Melissa:And nonpolar molecules have the electrons totally evenly distributed, So there's not really a positive or negative portion. You can get a temporary, like, induce the electrons to move around a little bit. But for the most part, They're evenly spread around. And so this is totally neutral, this nonpolar thing, and then this polar thing is Partially positive, partially negative. And so those things don't really have a good way of interacting together, so they say separate.
Melissa:And you have probably seen that in your everyday life. If you've ever added oil to water for boiling pasta or if you've ever seen oil slicks sitting on top of water in a parking lot, They just don't like to interact. And so that's my guess as to how the lipid bio or the lipid bilayer. Look, you got me thinking in that term now. That's, I guess, of how the lipid layer on our eye stays separate from the aqueous layer, and then I think probably the mucus layer is also Non polar to an extent.
Melissa:It's a guess. That's a guess. I did not look into what mucus is made up of because I'm getting a PhD on a limited Time scale.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. But that would seem to track because if it was if it if it was also polar, you'd think it would mix with the aqueous layer.
Melissa:Right. You think that. That's what I was thinking too. That was that was my thought. Yeah.
Jam:It seems solid, you know, for now.
Melissa:So that right there, that's your biggest Chemistry specific lesson of how chemistry is playing out in our eyes in a functional way.
Jam:Yeah. That is yeah. That's interesting. And, you know, I I was as you were talking, I was thinking about people who get, like, a dry eye or whatever. Mhmm.
Jam:And I've always thought, like, just squirt some saline in there. But it makes sense that, like, if something's going a little wrong with the layers of stuff in your eyes, you can't just squirt some saltwater in. There's this Right. Balance of these layers that is what keeps our eyes healthy and Function well and Right. Not feeling dry and all that stuff.
Jam:So it makes sense that it's kind of a hard problem to solve. That chemistry is when it's working, it's probably in this delicate balance or whatever. Right. And when it's not, how can we we it's not easy to replace, I'm sure. You know?
Melissa:Right. And I would also guess, Because lipids usually are higher molecular weight, so that means they're usually harder to evaporate. I think that's the proper connection there, but lipids usually don't boil off as high of a as easily as water does. So I would also guess that the lipid layer on our eyes helps keep them moisturized to a degree. Although there is A continuous production of tears, and we're never building those up.
Melissa:So there probably is some water loss through our eyes as well.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So, yeah, that's kind of the chemistry lesson. And, actually, the rest of it is sort of gonna be fun facts Since you earned it. Because you made a really good educated, guess about why these layers are gonna be separate. I love that that chemistry brain.
Jam:Yeah. And I love that, like, some of these basic chemistry building blocks that have come around so many different lessons Become more and more familiar every time. And especially, like, the polar non polar thing, which was, like, episode 1. Yeah. I love how many times that's been Either the main part or a significant part, of different chemistry lessons and how many times the same principles are used and helpful and apply in so many different scenarios.
Jam:So just super cool.
Melissa:It is super Cool. And it it's exciting to me that you started to internalize some of those and can predict situations when those things are going to come into play.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. So here's some of the fun chemistry facts. It's still just all about the chemistry of our eyes.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So first, we've talked something similarly to this in our episode about sweat. But similar to sweat, changes in tear film fluid, so the literal tears in our eyes, changes in the chemistry of the tears in our eyes Can result from both eye disease or bodily diseases. Oh. So researchers are working on sensors that can use Tears to detect health conditions.
Jam:Oh, wow.
Melissa:And I saw one for diabetes, and I saw some for, For patients who were in a vegetative state, like, after going through some kind of traumatic incident, that the the chemistry of the tears physically Change it. Dang. Isn't that amazing?
Jam:That is so strange. If, like, if I read that on the Internet, I would have not have believed it. You know?
Melissa:Right. And I feel like it is sort of an untapped potential because it's like, Well, we're not we're poking people's bodies getting their blood out and looking at their chemistry that way, but we could possibly just, like, Do a somewhat noninvasive procedure where we take a little bit of their tear and and, like, just be able to do a sensor that way.
Jam:Yeah. But it makes sense that it's like there is this bodily fluid that is already outside of our body, like, right here that Yeah. Easier to get to in some ways that might have Mhmm. Data about how we're doing. Like, you think about it more, it makes sense, but I would not have assumed that at all.
Melissa:Yes. And they can also make People cry using we'll talk about this a little bit more, but irritating agents. So once of the year, I found used The vapors from freshly cut onions to make people cry to gather their tears.
Jam:Nice. Nice.
Melissa:That was kind of an older one, though.
Jam:Yeah. And then another study they used, any movies where, animals die
Melissa:tragically? Literally, actually.
Jam:Oh, really?
Melissa:So let's talk about that. Okay. Yes. So tears are typically categorized into 3 different kinds. There's basal tears, which are the ones that are, I would describe them as kind of maintaining that trilayer Okay.
Melissa:Situation. They're always produced. They're the tears that are keeping your eyes in healthy condition all the time.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:And then there's what's known as reflex tears, which are in response to a physical eye irritant. So an irritant such as onion fumes or there's other I think they're called lachrymating agents because it comes from, the, Something called the lacrimonial gland, I think, in your eye.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:So those agents can Trigger your eye to produce tears or even, like, smoke will make my eyes water. Right? Like, if you're around a campfire.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So those are known as reflex tears. They're physically get they're Lushing something out of your eye.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:And then there are emotional tears, and those emotional tears are in response to emotional stimulus either Happy or sad?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And researchers actually think that humans are the only species which has tears that are triggered by emotion. So that's very interesting. And there's a lot of research into what that purpose could have been? Like, what what role did that play in evolution that we maintained that?
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:And then also, the protein content of emotional tears is different than that of irritant tears. So there's a study. It was from longer ago. I think it was the seventies where they literally did what you described. So they Used onions to make people cry and collected those tears, and then they played really sad movies to make people cry and collected those tears.
Melissa:And they, like, What made them wash their face? There's no makeup, so, like, nothing was, going to be, like
Jam:Oh, contaminating the
Melissa:contaminating the sample. Yeah. There was a higher percentage of women than men. There was, like, only 4 male participants and 24 female participants, and they compared the protein content based on the individual person before Before and after. And there was, on average, a 24% increase in the protein content of emotional tears than irritant tears.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:And it was a statistically significant increase. So sometimes it's like, oh, this is a people will say significant, like, oh, this is Large or, like, notable?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But you can run statistics to compare 1 sample to another and see if there's a statistical level that this is unlikely to have occurred as a result of coincidence.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And, Statistically, it was found that this is unlikely to have occurred as a result of coincidence. There is a statistical significance in protein and emotional tears versus irritant
Jam:Wow. Dang it, dude.
Melissa:So that comes back to our friend, Miriam, said different tiers look different under the microscope. And there is some truth to that. So, because there's different protein content and different kind of tears, they are going to dry differently and look different if you look at them under a microscope, and there's also different salt content, and salt can crystallize differently. However, this is kind of a myth that was started because a woman started to An artist would take her dried tears and put them on microscope slides. Like, take a tear on a microscope slide, let it dry, and look at it under the microscope, and really beautiful.
Melissa:Yeah. But it's not scientifically based. So this tier is different than this tier under the microscope, and we can look under the microscope and see that
Jam:this
Melissa:tier is a grief tier or this is a happy tier. We'd There's not there wasn't that.
Jam:Right. Right. But it does seem like emotion tears and irritant tears, there's some there's scientific evidence That's clear that they are different from each other.
Melissa:Yes. But it's not like we can look under a microscope and the structure is different enough that just under scope, we can tell what tiers were from what.
Jam:Yeah. Or, like, which emotion it was. Or
Melissa:Right. There's nothing like that. It's just emotion tiers are different than physical reflex tears.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:And that's it. Interesting. Even more interesting is it appears that emotional tears are believed to be a chemical signal known as a modulator, which means they basically act similar to a pheromone. They can modulate or, control, basically, chemical responses in those around them. So, like, pheromones are how ants and other insects can communicate with each other, and humans have some of that as well.
Melissa:Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So One study found that they they had women cry based on a movie. It was emotional tears. They collected those, and then they had a saline solution that was made up of a similar protein content as tear.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And they made men specifically smell, the saline, and the tears, and there was no smell difference. Mhmm. But then they tested all so the the men could not distinguish which one was tears and which one was saline. It was like, they were wrong every single time they asked, basically. It was, like, 5050.
Jam:And it
Melissa:was, like, to the point where, like, this is statistically random, basically.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And then they started testing physical responses, and they found that men's testosterone and their level of sexual arousal or attraction to pictures of women shown on a screen went down After consistently, statistically significantly, after smelling the tears versus smelling the saline.
Jam:Woah. Wait. So the tiers lowered their
Melissa:Yep.
Jam:Response to photographs of And their attraction to wait. Say that again.
Melissa:Yes. So they had pictures of women chum, and they rated their attractiveness level. And Their attractiveness level went down after the men had smelled the tears versus when they showed them after they smelled the saline. Okay. Same picture on different day.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Interesting.
Melissa:And then physically, their testosterone levels in their saliva went down Significantly.
Jam:So even they can't tell consciously tell the difference
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Of saline and tears, it is affecting them,
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Unconsciously, and that was be able to be proven by how they Yes. Both the testosterone levels and how they rated these photos.
Melissa:Yeah. So there's not a detectable smell in tears, but there is a chemical signal in the tears that communicates to the male body, Lower your testosterone levels.
Jam:Uh-huh. Woah. I don't get that. Right? Like, I mean, I'm now I'm like, wait.
Jam:So what advantage does that have? Or, like, what purpose does that serve?
Melissa:Who knows? Maybe they didn't find an increase in empathy. Mhmm. That was my first thought. Was like, maybe when other people cry, your testosterone levels need to come down so that you can be more empathetic
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Or something. Right?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So I can't figure it out. I can't I don't know what the advantage of that would be, but it does appear that tears Don't only serve as, like, an emotional release for us, but they are literally chemically signaling to those around us. Yeah. And having a physical impact on their body chemistry as well.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's not necessarily Increasing empathy, but if you're decreasing if you're able to decrease hostility or something like that, maybe
Melissa:Maybe.
Jam:That's all that the earliest humans were trying to accomplish with it. You know? It's like Right. I'm I'm fearing for my life, so I'm crying, and I'm hoping that that Ease is your hostility toward me, and Yes. Please don't club me over the head with your your club or whatever people used.
Melissa:Right. Yeah. Incredible. That's Isn't that wild?
Jam:That is so wild. Goodness gracious. I did not expect there to be so much interesting stuff about tears.
Melissa:I know. Well, there's more. Woah. So moving over to the forensic side of chemistry Uh-huh. There is very recent evidence that tears contain cells shed from our eyes, epithelial cells in our eyes, that can be used to find DNA evidence.
Melissa:So if you're at a crime scene and someone cried either due to irritants, like a reflex tear or due to emotions, If that has been wiped on a tissue, if it's been wiped on a fabric, there is a possibility that they can use the Shed tears to to obtain enough cells to get DNA evidence out of it.
Jam:Wow. Dang. I know. Interesting. Which I guess
Melissa:I know.
Jam:Also kinda tracks with other other things behind. Other bodily, You know, fluids or cells or whatever, but it's it is fascinating to think, like, oh, yeah. Tears, because they're not just Salt water. So they've got stuff in there that could trace, to us or whatever. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. Amazing. Dang. So that's that's the biggest thing on tears. That's that's some chemistry of the of human tears.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:So Miriam was both right and wrong, and she'll never know because she won't listen to this episode. Yeah. But it was a really good one. So I I really had Fun researching this. This was the thing that got me excited when I when I was not sure where I was gonna go with our episodes.
Jam:Yeah. Team, that's cool.
Melissa:Speaking of excited, I alluded to this. And also speaking of Miriam, I alluded to this earlier, but I'm gonna switch gears into a review of our week.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:And I'm gonna go 1st because it relates very closely.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So I'm not sure if I mentioned that I was going to do this last time we recorded or not, But my husband and I booked a cabin in Oklahoma for me to go and write my, my dissertation and finish up everything that needed to be done. And he was there for a few days, and then he had to go back to work. And so Miriam came with her 2 dogs and stayed with me because it's really in the middle of nowhere. There was not even a deadbolt on the lock. I would have been really scared there by myself.
Jam:Oh, dang. Yeah.
Melissa:So I needed Companionship. So Mason left, and Miriam came in as relief. And, just she just hung out with me. Both of them just hung out with me all day while I worked for 8 to 10 hours a day on my dissertation. And I came out on the other side of it with A completed 1st draft of my dissertation.
Jam:Dude, nice.
Melissa:I also felt so rested because There was no cell service in that cabin. There was no Wi Fi in that cabin. I had to work or rest. There was no mindless scrolling. There's no watching TV.
Melissa:We had campfires. We made s'mores. We just sat on the porch and looked at nature. I mean, it was really, really So restful and beautiful, and I highly recommend it. So I came out feeling like a fresh new person and also having a big weight off shoulder of the 1st draft of my dissertation written.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. And by the time this episode airs, I think I'll I'll be within just a few days of turning my completed dissertation with edits and everything into my committee.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So that's really exciting. We're coming up on the end.
Jam:That's awesome, man. It worked. I mean, like, that plan obviously Seems great on paper to go out and get away from everything, but I'm so so glad it worked so well.
Melissa:It worked So well. Yeah. It was such a nice restful time. It was so nice to only have to worry about my dissertation. I didn't have to worry about maintaining my house.
Melissa:I didn't have to worry about laundry, about We had brought all the food we needed, so we knew what we were eating every single day.
Jam:You know? So it
Melissa:was like, I just woke up, got ready for the day, work. Yeah. Had him a little smoothie and worked, and then had lunch, and then worked some more, and then had a dinner break. And maybe I worked after dinner or maybe I just rested after dinner, but All the meals were so nice because he was just, like, in nature and eating our food on the porch. It was really, really so special.
Melissa:So That was my really exciting thing for this week. I couldn't wait to tell the listeners because I know they're they're pulling for me. They're in this with me. Yeah. So it's such a weight off my shoulder.
Melissa:I feel like a totally new person, so thank goodness for that.
Jam:Dude, that is great. Congrats, and you're getting closer and closer. Every time
Melissa:I know.
Jam:We get to share with listeners where you're at, there's, you know, new ground covered, And it's a week or 2 or 3 closer to you being done, which is awesome.
Melissa:I know. And when we started this podcast in 2019, I was like, Oh, she's getting her PhD. And now we're within, you know, a month of being able to say doctor Collini, which is wild.
Jam:Yeah. Dude, that is wild.
Melissa:Does not feel real. So that is my exciting thing for the week. I am so glad to have happy news to share because for a while, I was like, I'm really having a hard time. I've got a lot on my shoulders, and now I'm like, we're so close. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. So very exciting. So that's my happy thing. That's my a little bit of my weekend review and update for me. How about you?
Melissa:I feel like because I've been in This dissertation land, I haven't heard much about what's going on in your life lately.
Jam:Yes. So okay. Couple thing. I only have, like, one thing, but, the most boring thing that I don't even go to detail about is that, just that feeling you get that feels so good when you've Already finished your taxes for the year?
Melissa:Oh, yeah.
Jam:So, yeah, I've been
Melissa:feel That is a good
Jam:feeling. That. Did a did it in one Intense stretch of time on Monday this week. Nice. When people hear this, they'll be like, you did it late, but it's I did it in time.
Jam:Don't worry.
Melissa:Yeah. We're ahead of the curve right now.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. And the second thing that most already knows that is not news to a lot of people in My life, good news for you guys is that my wife and I are having a second kid.
Melissa:It's been so hard not to talk about it on the podcast.
Jam:So that's
Melissa:Sorry if that was not a happy noise for our listeners. I have I'm so excited.
Jam:So that's been obviously a thing that, you know, Takes up a lot of my thought space and time and a lot of things that Marv and I are working on and planning about or whatever. It's you know? So, That's super exciting.
Melissa:It is so exciting.
Jam:And then the third thing is not as exciting as that, but just a cool change in My week to week life is that a friend of ours, that most of my friends with who used to be her roommate, Nicole.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:We have been
Melissa:After Nicole photography. Check her out.
Jam:She's awesome. So we've been to this thing. So Nicole and her husband have a son who's almost exactly 1 year younger than My son. And so but both Nicole and I do this thing where we work and mold our work around Watching our kids, you know, our kid.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And so what we started doing a couple weeks ago is something we called it baby swap, but it's not really Very accurate, I guess. It's kind of it's kind of confusing title. But, basically, it's that on for about 3 hours on one day, I watch both of the boys, and Nicole gets 3 extra hours of work time. And then at That it a different day, the same week, She does that, and I get 3 extra hours of work time.
Melissa:Baby swap.
Jam:It is sort of, but we're not literally, like it's not like wife swap. We're, like, I take your baby, you
Melissa:take mine. Yeah. That's true.
Jam:That show that was dumb.
Melissa:It's like toddler swap also because neither of them are really babies
Jam:anymore. Exactly. Yeah. Their son is Yeah. Still a baby in a lot of ways, but, not not so different from my son.
Jam:They can have some things they can kind of do together a little bit. You know? So anyway
Melissa:And that's probably really good for them to be able to hang out with each other developmentally. You know, siblings can, like, push each other to try new things and stuff.
Jam:And learn to share and all kinds of stuff. But Right. Also, the fact that, like, we both benefit and have such similar Yes. Lives is, like, getting a extra 3 hours Anytime in the week that I can work and that Nicole can work is enough amount of time to, like, really make a difference. So
Melissa:Also, I saw some pictures. There's a few baby or toddler children photo streams, I guess, because it's like, don't wanna put everything about your child on social media. So we have some, like, groups of friends that are on photo streams, which is an incredible way to do it. Because whenever I don't have Wi Fi or whatever. I can just creep around on babies and be like, oh, it is
Jam:so cute.
Melissa:Yeah. And I don't have Facebook. There's not, like, a big social media that we're all on.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And It is adorable to see them playing with each other. Yeah. It
Jam:is so funny. Yeah. So some of those pictures you saw are from one of the baby swap times where
Melissa:From baby swaps. Yeah.
Jam:So, anyway, that's one of the things where I just think, like, so much of being an adult is figuring out life and how to balance everything. And so Yeah. You know, it's, like, never changes really. It's just the the factors you have to balance change. But, the fact that we figured out some Genius way.
Jam:It's really Nicole's idea so she gets credit of, like, I'm already watching a kid, so why not watch a second kid for a few hours? So that a different day this week, I cannot watch my kid for a few hours and get work.
Melissa:That's really smart.
Jam:Perfect combination of, like, you know, classic bartering and Trading of goods and time and whatever services. So And
Melissa:it gives the rest of us really cute pictures of tiny humans in
Jam:our Exactly. So
Melissa:And it's good for them. And, you know, their son's pretty adventurous and, you know, very, very active, and he's Yeah. Got all kinds of energy, and y'all's son is a little bit more chill, reflective of the parents, I'd say. Yeah. And, You know, just kinda very cautious.
Melissa:Yeah. Doesn't always wanna try new things maybe. And so having them Together, I feel like, could encourage 1 to be more cautious and one to be more adventurous.
Jam:Yes. Yes. And I've thought since, you know, we we're having another kid, we're having a son, another one. And so I felt like a little bit of even the ages will be different. Getting practice of having to watch 2 boys is kinda nice.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:You know? So it feels like very relevant, experience to be gaining. So yeah. Anyway.
Melissa:Wow. That's really cute. I love that. I'm so happy for both of you that that's working out, and I am really thankful for the pictures that I get to look at of them. Just, like, hanging out together and, like, Being little tiny humans experiencing life together is really cute.
Melissa:Yeah. So I love I love it. And it's crazy that we're at the age where You can say the boys.
Jam:Yeah. The boys.
Melissa:We're we're the parents, and we're talking about the boys. Like, wow. Yeah. I mean, I'm not a parent. But, you know, like, we're the age group of the parents.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. It is very weird. Yeah. It's a little it's a little eerie, but, anyway
Melissa:It is.
Jam:That's my smattering of of things from my
Melissa:Of life updates.
Jam:Updates. Exactly.
Melissa:That's very exciting. Well, I'll have a few more live updates coming Around the bend, things are gonna be changing rapidly for me over the course of the next month, and then they'll be calming down significantly. So Buckle up listeners, and then we'll settle into a new routine. But thanks for coming along with me on this wild ride and for Caring about my dissertation updates and the nice messages y'all send on Instagram and Twitter have been so encouraging. It's So exciting to know that I have a whole community who's excited about this next step in my career.
Melissa:So thanks for all of y'all for that. And thanks to Miriam for coming up with a really good episode ideas even though she never learns the answers. Thanks to all of you listeners too for coming and learning about tiers. This was a really fun episode.
Jam:And thank you for teaching us. And just like Miriam's idea of asking this Question about tiers. If you have any thoughts, ideas, or questions that might be chemistry explanations, please don't hesitate to reach out to us. Of the best ideas for episodes come from you guys, so reach out to us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at Kim for your life. That's Kim, f o r, your life to share your thoughts and ideas.
Jam:If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, Go to kodashfi.com/kimforyourlife, or click the link in our show notes to donate the cost of a cup of coffee. You're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing to your favorite podcast app and rating and writing a review on Apple Podcasts. That also helps us to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of chemistry free life was created by Melissa Colini and Jam Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jim Robinson is our producer, and we like to give a special thanks to
