How do deodorant and antiperspirant work?
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:And I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Jam, what's up? What's up? What's up?
Jam:Not a lot. How are you?
Melissa:I'm good. I am just, hanging out, watching the dogs out the window. They I just heard them Clack up the hallway and go out into the backyard. So Nice. That's my afternoon.
Melissa:How are you?
Jam:I'm good. I haven't seen me on the Internet quite as much. Could be double recorded and then didn't record for a week. So there's been a lot less Internet hangs, at least fewer than normal.
Melissa:Yeah. I realized today, I'm just so the listeners know, I have 7 essays due in the next 6 days.
Jam:I'll do one.
Melissa:You'll do 1? Yeah. That'd be great.
Jam:How how important is, like, a good grade to you? Just curious.
Melissa:Pretty important. Yeah.
Jam:Okay. Well well, Maybe I'm not the we'll see.
Melissa:Well, here's the thing. It's sort of my own fault. You know, I had all my family stuff going on. I had more time, but I was unmotivated to utilize my time wisely. So in light of all of that, I'm I Have done what I like to say is made my own bed, and now I'm lying in it.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm. So
Melissa:it's my own fault. But because of that thing going on in my mind where I know about all that happening. I did not realize how long it had been since we'd seen each other until We are logging on, and I thought, oh my gosh. I haven't seen Jam in forever.
Jam:Yeah. We we saw each other at, like, a group video hang on Thursday. But other than that, it'd been, like, a pretty solid, like, at least, like, just shy of 2 weeks, I think. Yeah. So which is funny because it to people listening, they're not they're gonna be like, sounds like you guys have seen each other the same amount that I thought.
Melissa:But, usually, we see each other in real life non quarantine times. I would say 3 times a week. Yeah. Men. Right.
Melissa:Minimum. So
Jam:Yeah. True that.
Melissa:But, anyway, so now we're here.
Jam:We're here.
Melissa:And today's topic is very exciting to me.
Jam:What is it?
Melissa:It comes from 2 listeners. One is Miriam. That's Jam's roommate.
Jam:Oh, sweet. Okay.
Melissa:She's also the graduate student coordinator at my school, and she's, Amazing and has been a big advocate for the show. So
Jam:Yeah. It's a small world. You guys, if you've never been In or around Denton or University of North Texas or whatever. But hearing our podcast in our little friend group and stuff. It probably sounds like it's a pretty small world over here,
Melissa:which is a pretty small world over here.
Jam:Which it is. So
Melissa:It is. Yeah. So that's the 1 person it came from. And then the other person it came from is our Internet friend, Shael.
Jam:Oh, nice.
Melissa:Yes. We met Shail on Instagram, and you guys may remember she wrote in once telling us that she also sings along to our little intro when it's like, I'm Melissa, and I'm Jim, and I'm a chemist, and I'm not. And that just tickled me. And so we ended up striking up a little conversation, and she's asked so many questions, and it's been very fun.
Jam:She's cool, and she's in Australia. Correct?
Melissa:I believe so. Yeah. She's definitely not here. Not in America.
Jam:We've got some Awesome Australian listeners and, awesome listeners from a lot of other places around the world for that matter. And
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. We've got some cool listeners from Brazil Spain and, yeah, a lot of places have reached out.
Jam:And those are just the ones we know of.
Melissa:Yeah. And for the record, we love hearing from you guys, so feel free to also, you who are listening right now, reach out and have a chat.
Jam:Sweet, dude. This is cool that 2 people ask the same question. The women's
Melissa:I know. Isn't that so exciting? I was like, I guess now I have to do it since 2 people have asked for sure. It's a hot topic. It's on people's minds.
Melissa:Yep. So the question is and I'm gonna use Chael's question because she said, I almost said, I don't know if this is chemistry related, but then I realized Everything is chemistry related, which is correct, Shale. So I'm just going to ask, anyway, What does the active ingredient in deodorant or antiperspirant actually do?
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And when you use those natural substitutes, are they still working? And guess what?
Jam:What?
Melissa:It is very chemistry related. It's a great question, but it's also biology related, so I think it would be biochemistry.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:So first, we're gonna talk about what even makes us smell bad, and then we're gonna talk about what antiperspirant is, And then we're gonna talk about what deodorant is.
Jam:Oh, yeah. Interesting. I wondered that too, what the difference between the 2 is.
Melissa:And then I've got some fun facts at the end. This might be kind of a long episode, but I think it's worth it.
Jam:Totally. There's a lot to cover. We we wanna know what makes it smell bad and then what to do at it. So
Melissa:That it's a lot. It is a lot to uncover. So the thing that makes us smell bad in the 1st place is just basically bacteria. Bacteria eats sweat, and then you give it sweat. It's like it's nutrition, kind of.
Melissa:And then it processes it and gives off bad odors.
Jam:Woah. That's weird. What the heck?
Melissa:I know. Isn't it crazy? That's it. That's the basics of why we smell bad.
Jam:So bacteria is already there. It's all around us all the time.
Melissa:Mhmm. And in our armpits or wherever, you know, this tends to smell, it's Warm and moist and dark, and I guess bacteria likes to grow there.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm. And it likes sweat.
Melissa:And it likes to eat sweat.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:So it seems really simple, but also it's a little bit more complicated because There's some fights about what actually is the compound that makes us smell bad. So I found a few research papers That seemed like there was kind of a big bite in the seventies in the scientific world about whether or not this one compound called Trans, I believe, trans two methyl two hexanoic acid is the reason that Specifically, people who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia smell bad, like, have a specific odor. But then other people said, no. That that's not true. Finally, I discovered about doctor George Preddy.
Melissa:Doctor Preddy is a chemist who specialized in perspiration research, which I didn't even know was a thing, At the Monell Chemistry Census Center of Philadelphia. And his group essentially found out that three The two hexyenoic acid was what caused the smell that we would call the way people smell bad, like, the bad smell people make
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:In all people, not just people specifically with diagnosis of mental health disorders.
Jam:That's so weird. I mean, I just don't get why that would be related at all. Not that I would be a good gauge of what makes sense to Be connected medically anyway, but that just seems so weird.
Melissa:It does seem weird, except that that one compound isn't the only thing that we smell Bad. So here's a nice quote from doctor Preti that I thought was really good. He said, we are all little chemistry factory factories. We have bacteria mingling with excretions from our body that forms a variety of odors depending on what part of the body we're talking about. He said there are about 2 dozen compounds contributing to underarm smell, and nearly all of them are acidic in nature.
Melissa:And you can rearrange those compounds To give many millions of combinations so that underarm secretions collected from 6 individuals will all be very different bouquets. So that is some information from doctor Preti that I thought was interesting. And then a few other papers suggested that body odor can change based on where you are in your menstrual Michael, your emotional state, your health, your age, there are some theories that I think there are service dogs that can indicate when their owner is about to have a seizure are smelling a change in chemical excretions from your body.
Jam:Oh, I've heard of that. Not like the chemical part, but I just heard of dogs being able to sense that in some way. Interesting.
Melissa:So body odor is very complex, way more complex than just this 1 compound caused a smell. And they, in the end, seem to think that This mental health diagnosis of schizophrenia was not related to body chemistry Mhmm. And smell. And, really, that that compound they isolated was causing bad smell in most people along with many others. But I thought it was interesting that it's So simple that just the things you give off get converted into bad smell by bacteria, but also all these things can affect it.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Seriously.
Melissa:So chemistry of our bodies.
Jam:That's crazy.
Melissa:It is crazy. And I didn't even know. I think you should probably stop being surprised by this, but I didn't know that there was a chemical census center and that there were researchers that specialized in such things with perspiration research.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So doctor Preddy's work actually informed a lot of what we're gonna talk about today. But, also, he recently passed away, I think, back in March Mhmm. This past March. So This is kind of a way to honor him and say thank you for the work that you've done to contribute, and we're so excited to pass that along to everyone else.
Jam:Yeah. For sure. It's amazing that There are people dedicated to this specific thing. Like you said, it shouldn't be surprising. I guess we hear about that a lot, but it is kind of Weird to wonder.
Jam:I wonder how, like, you know, odors work or whatever. And then to
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:To think, I wonder if there's a group of people that are Working day night, you know, on this exact thing or whatever.
Melissa:Well and it seemed like he was trying to leverage odors and body excretions in order to be a tool to identify medical conditions or other things. Basically, seeing what he could find out to make more efficient products, but also make more efficient diagnosis or to help with our health or whatever. So I thought that was really Pretty interesting and cool.
Jam:Yeah. For sure.
Melissa:And that quote, I believe, was from there's a few articles about him in The New York Times in Chemistry and Engineering News. Mhmm. And all of those were really helpful. So I just wanted to give a shout out to those articles about doctor Priddy and his work and his life.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:So that's the basics of why our body smells weird. But the question that we were asked was how do antiperspirants work? And I'm mixing in how do deodorants work. Both of them work by messing with the bacteria that makes the smell. Okay.
Melissa:So antiperspirants Stop the sweat from getting to the bacteria. K. It reduces sweat production.
Jam:Kinda makes sense with the name, like Antiperspirant. No perspiring.
Melissa:Antiperspirant. Yeah. Yes. And I discovered while I was working on this that I have a hard time spelling Antiperspirant. I kept changing one of the i's to an e.
Melissa:So I do something similar with chemistry where I often accidentally spell chemistry, Chemistry, and I cannot change my brain from doing.
Jam:Oh, weird. Yeah.
Melissa:Those are my those are my admissions to being a poor speller in today's episode.
Jam:Dude, I have some of those too. Don't worry. Mine aren't those exact ones. And in general, I feel like I'm pretty proud of my spelling, but a couple Mistakes I keep making all the time.
Melissa:Yeah. It's just, you know, can't shake it.
Jam:I'm a I'm I'm I have a hard time with the I before e stuff. There's a lot of words that I really rely on autocorrect just to fix my IE issue. I really think for a little while, I can get it right, but lot of time it is just being in a hurry. So I have that problem too.
Melissa:Well, the only way I could get it right was if I said perspirant instead of perspirant.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:Just like wet nest day. You know? Yep. Gotta do that in your mind. So Oh,
Jam:yeah. I spell out Wednesday in my mind, and I spell out tomorrow in my mind because I sometimes, for some reason, like, Forget which thing is a double letter of unless I spell it out in my head.
Melissa:Yes. Because Disneyland had a Tomorrowland. Like, they had Tomorrowland, and their little guy was Tom Morrow. So I thought that there was supposed to be 2 m's the whole time in tomorrow.
Jam:Okay. Thanks a lot, Disney. You're supposed to be helping kids, okay, not Freaking him out.
Melissa:Because it's 1 m in tomorrow. Right?
Jam:Yeah. T o l l.
Melissa:Okay. So that's how I always remember is that Tom Tomorrow, the little guy from Tomorrowland is not the right way to spell it. That's my spelling rant for today. Okay. So Antiperspirants stop you from sweating as much.
Melissa:They reduce sweat production, and the government regulates how much sweat Production has to be minimized to actually be able to call it an antiperspirant. I think it's, like, 20%. And then deodorants work by trying to kill the bacteria itself. So it doesn't change sweat production at all, but it's just stopping the bacteria from Producing odor. So those are 2 distinct forms of not smelling as weird.
Melissa:So you can either have an antiperspirant or a deodorant. But oftentimes, in antiperspirant, they have some deodorant mixed in, And sometimes they'll just throw on perfume just in case.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:It's an added bonus.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So now you might be wondering, how does antiperspirant stop sweat protection?
Jam:Yes. I am wondering that, especially because I use antiperspirant, not just deodorant. And Partly because because of superstition. I never understood how exactly it works, but it seems like when I look at the deodorant aisle, I'm like, I want this one that is He's gonna also stop sweating, so I'm especially curious about that.
Melissa:Well, that's interesting because there are also a lot of people who worry that Antiperspirants are bad for you.
Jam:Now I'm worried about that too.
Melissa:But It's all based on the use of this one thing, which is aluminum salts.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So aluminum salts are almost always present in antiperspirants. The way that they are suspended in the antiverse print or whatever is different, but they've got the aluminum salts in there. And for a long time, it was just theorized that they dissolve in your sweat and somehow form plugs on the top of your pores, and that doesn't let the sweat out. And that was All I could find. It took me probably 3 hours to finish working on this article because I was Trying to find an article that a research journal article that talked about how the salt plugs formed, And it was very frustrating, but I finally found 1.
Melissa:It seems like a lot is unknown overall, but I found 1 in 2017 where they used basically an imitation of sweat proteins and a very specific type of X-ray To watch the formation of the sweat proteins, which is so interesting, or the formation of the salt aluminum salt Plugs that block your pores from sweating. And they basically found that The aluminum salt, the positive parts positively charged parts of the aluminum salt mixed in with the sweat proteins and then formed A nucleation site. Do you remember that word nucleation?
Jam:From crystals forming?
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Mhmm. They need, like, a starting point kinda thing?
Melissa:Yes. So, basically, it's a starting point for a membrane to form across where the sweat comes out.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And then it collects the sweat, Almost like a membrane across the opening.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:That was my best interpretation of the article. It was very complex, and it was the only one of its kind that I could find. And I looked pretty hard, so that was my best interpretation of that. So, essentially, the salt In the aluminum salt, the positive parts, mixes with your sweat proteins most likely and then forms a membrane across your pores to keep the sweat from coming out.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:Mhmm. And then you can just rinse that off. It the salts will go away in water.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:Positive charges are usually good at dissolving in water, salts in general. Mhmm. So that's That's antiperspirants. You're tracking with me? I'm
Jam:tracking. I'm tracking. Basically, it just
Melissa:keeps it
Jam:from coming out, in short.
Melissa:That's it. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jam:It
Melissa:makes a nice membrane over your pores. Mhmm. And you pretty much have to, it seems, use aluminum salt maybe because it forms a membrane differently. That just seems to be the thing that's most effective in antiperspirants. Okay.
Melissa:Now deodorants on the other hand, Not always the same stuff. They have a huge array of possible products because they're basically just trying to stop The bacteria from growing or producing bad smells. Mhmm. So one article I read said they basically can be anything from antibiotics to citronella to just alcohol. Anything that kills bacteria, that can be in a deodorant.
Melissa:So it could be anything. So our antiperspirants are this one specific type of thing that does something that very few other things do, it seems. Deodorants can be anything that makes you smell less. So I think the answer to Shayelle's question about Antiperspirants and deodorants is that they're different from one another. So any aluminum free deodorant is probably gonna be Not as efficient in terms of stopping you from sweat as antiperspirants are.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But all natural deodorants or aluminum free deodorants are probably created equally, sort of equally. They're all a free for all kind of. They're just trying to stop you from
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Producing odor.
Jam:So here's a question then. I think I used to think deodorant meant that it just was introducing a new smell to your armpit area. What you're saying is technically for it to be deodorant, It really should be having some method of trying to kill bacteria.
Melissa:That is what it seemed from the interview I read with doctor Preti.
Jam:That's a helpful definition because we do have things that are used for smelling good.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And, otherwise, I I think I discounted The existence of deodorant. Kinda just thinking, Alastair is adding a different smell over here. Like, I kinda need I kinda want something that is doing more than just that. But that makes more sense if it's trying to also kill the bacteria that gives it a lot more credit than I had been giving it in my mind.
Melissa:Well and I've really been struggling with deodorant on my own end. It seems like I'll buy a new deodorant or an antiperspirant, and it'll work for a while, and then it stops working pretty quickly. And one of the most effective things I've ever had is this spray deodorant. It just kinda smells like citrus. Mhmm.
Melissa:And I think I don't know for sure, but as a chemist, my best guess is that it's essentially just Spraying alcohol, like some sort of disinfecting alcohol under my arms, which kills bacteria Mhmm. And Very slightly masks it initially with the citrus scent, but that wears off quickly. Yeah. So I really think that would be an effective way of deodorizing is just Rubbing some alcohol that will even kill bacteria. So it doesn't last forever.
Melissa:You kinda have to reapply. But It seems like anything that kills bacteria is going to deodorize. Yeah. I thought the citronella oil was really interesting too.
Jam:That is interesting. So one thing I just wanna make sure I understand. You're saying that you smell sometimes?
Melissa:No. I don't smell ever. I only smell like flowers constantly.
Jam:K. I'm thinking getting some mixed signals here. It sounds like you guys heard it here first, Melissa, then smells.
Melissa:Okay. Fine. I'll admit it. No. I do sometimes well.
Melissa:I work out hard. I go hard. I've been doing that Erika Davis Fitness. Listen. Right now, her program is $49 for 8 weeks.
Melissa:You guys should really jump in on it while we're still all track trapped in our homes for
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:For our quarantines, and you can also smell bad too for the low, low price of $49 for 8 weeks.
Jam:Dude, I like how you turn that around, though. Like, It sounds bad to say you smell bad, but if you're like, oh, no. It's because I work out hard, and you're like, oh, yeah. True that. Wow.
Jam:That's awesome. It's like You can suddenly make it a thing that's like, hey. Listen. You know? I'm working out hard, and it just comes to territory.
Jam:Or, like, people who who work Hard with their hands, and they get dirty like, hey. Listen. I'm working hard. It's like it kind of you're owning owning the dirt, owning the smell.
Melissa:Oh, a 100%. If you don't smell bad, Then I'm not impressed.
Jam:Are you do you even work out, bro? You don't smell that? I I can't even smell you from over here. You must not be working out hard enough.
Melissa:Well, I do work out hard enough. Okay. So that's the basics of the chemistry behind them and distinguishing between the 2. But the big question about safety has been around aluminum deodorants.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So there was some question about whether aluminum salts played a role in Alzheimer's and also in cancer, specifically Breast cancer because a lot of breast cancer is found in the upper outside quadrant of the breast, so close to the
Jam:Armpit.
Melissa:Armpit. Right. And there was aluminum salts and some of the stuff that it suspended in to distribute it into your arms found in those tumors. Mhmm. So initially, there was a big worry that our use of deodorant was somehow increasing our use of cancer.
Melissa:But and I had heard that, and I thought that seemed probably true, but I had stopped using a long time ago, so I was like, who knows? We don't know anything about chemistry really.
Jam:Yikes. That's
Melissa:Just kidding. We know a lot.
Jam:Yeah. But, yikes, that's, like, that's scary. It's kind of reminding me some of the Teflon stuff. Just, like, Enough to be, like, a little little scary.
Melissa:It's enough to be a little scary, but it seems that there is not a consensus among research professionals that this is occurring or not.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:So, actually, the Alzheimer's Association, some Patient advocate group has come to the conclusion that research doesn't support that use of antiperspirant increases occurrence of Alzheimer's. And The American Cancer Association, I believe, posted something along the lines of we are not sure that there is an aluminum and cancer correlation. But the best thing I read was a paper, I think, from 2016 Mhmm. That was an overview of All of the data and research that had been done with breast cancer and and aluminum antiperspirants, And it came up with, we don't know. That was their big conclusion that there aren't enough studies to say that there is for sure something or not.
Melissa:Right. So we would need to do more studies to check into this. But, ultimately, right now, it seems that's not corroborated. That doesn't mean it Won't ever be, but right now, it doesn't seem that we know that for sure.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:That's What my research turned up, if there's anyone else who's been researching this who maybe knows something else or wants to add to that, That'd be great. 2016 in terms of papers publishing. I'm surprised there's not something sooner, but it seems like it It's kind of gone back and forth, and so we don't have a true consensus yet.
Jam:Man, interesting. That's tough.
Melissa:It's another one where we just don't know. There there could be. When we're messing with Our bodies and the natural way things are, there could be negative ramifications, but we just don't know.
Jam:Yeah. That's tough. It's hard being humans sometimes.
Melissa:It's hard being humans and trying to make our bodies Do whatever we want them to do Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. So that's all the chemistry.
Melissa:If you wanna tell it back to me, I'm gonna give you some more fun Facts. Some of them chemistry related, some of them not.
Jam:Okay. I can do this, I think. So starting with the smells part, There are so there's not one chemical that we smell that makes us smell, but there's One that's very, very commonly a part of the smelling situation, makeup. And it's that super long one that Sounds crazy. What was it again?
Melissa:3 methyl two hexenoic acid. That doesn't mean anything to anyone unless you're an organic chemistry student. Mhmm. In which case, all that time you spent learning IUPAC names. You're welcome.
Jam:So we that's the chemical, but really is formed from, we sweat, comes out of our pores, and then there's bacteria there. Just like there is bacteria everywhere, especially because it's a, kind of locked in, like, area that's that's not open to the sun very often and is moist and warm. Bacteria loves it. And when we sweat, the bacteria eats The sweat, which is already kinda crazy sounding to me.
Melissa:That is kinda crazy sounding.
Jam:And somehow
Melissa:have a fun fact about that specifically.
Jam:Oh, sweet. And somehow that process gives off the smell. Is that right?
Melissa:Correct.
Jam:So That leaves there to be, like, a few places where if we're trying to combat this whole smell situation, We could either worry about the part that creates a smell, which is where the bacteria eats the sweat, Or
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Or we could prevent the sweat in the 1st place and also hopefully end up, you know, preventing the smell. So it's like Seems like that's the path, the fork in the road where antiperspirant and deodorant have kind of tried 2 different strategies there.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And a person is trying just to stop the sweat, which it does by stops some of the sweat. Probably impossible to stop all of it, where it uses aluminum.
Melissa:You can do it.
Jam:It's a salt. Right? Yes.
Melissa:So it's Aluminum salt.
Jam:Oh, okay. I thought I was trying to think of it, like, the other thing that was part of it. Would it be Chloride or
Melissa:There's other things, but it's a bunch of different aluminum salts. There's a lot of different variations on aluminum salt, but it's all basically aluminum salt.
Jam:Okay. Got it. So The aluminum salt is able to it's positively charged, And it's able to somehow combine with sweat. Right? Isn't that what It first starts starts that reaction kinda thing.
Melissa:The proteins in sweat is what it seemed like. Mhmm. That study was wild. They took, serums from something that cows produce Uh-huh. As an imitation for the proteins and sweat and watched how that would interact with the salt.
Melissa:It's pretty amazing.
Jam:So it interacts with those. And just like the crystal stuff we've talked about in the past, it Mhmm. Is able to have a Nucleation point or site or starting point, which then allows it to Basically, create a little plug for the sweat pores and prevent the sweat from coming out thing or hold it back or whatever.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Because if that works well enough, then the sweat doesn't come out as much, doesn't interact with the bacteria as much, doesn't eat as much of it, and then less smell happens.
Melissa:Boom.
Jam:So that's crazy.
Melissa:I know. And I kept finding people saying, and it just plugs your set of pores, and it just plugs your set of pores. And I was like, I have to find how it does it. And when I found it, it was worth the payoff because that's wild.
Jam:Yeah. Seriously, that is wild. And it seems like It seems like saying just plug sweat pores. It's like, okay. But couldn't I, like, probably find my own way of plugging my sweat pores that wouldn't be good, but, like, I could do that.
Jam:But it's like there's gotta be more complicated. Like, what if I just, like, put some glue all over my armpits or something?
Melissa:I know. Like, it
Jam:seems like that'd probably clog them, But not in a good way.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:So that's the in a perspirant way, it kinda it's trying to stop things earlier in the process. Mhmm. Whereas deodorant is focused on trying to kill bacteria. So it has any type of Saying that's known to kill bacteria like alcohol or citronella oil or something else that can kill?
Melissa:You know something else that can kill bacteria. Soap. Now if you take a back if you have a bacterial infection, you take
Jam:Oh, you take antibiotics?
Melissa:Yep. They have antibiotics and deodorants.
Jam:Oh, nice. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So anything yeah.
Jam:Yeah. There's a lot of things that we've found to be able to kill bacteria because it's But kill the bacteria so that you can sweat as your body wants to without it be getting eaten by bacteria and causing a lot of smell. Obviously, there's probably still some bacteria, but the idea would be to just minimize that As much as possible?
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:I can't really think of I mean, sometimes we have sometimes topics Seem like they really require some version of an analogy. For some reason, neither of these feel like they need that.
Melissa:I think it's really easy to visualize. We all know bacteria. You know? I mean, it almost if you really want, maybe you could just Talk about how cows eat grass and turn it into methane gas, which isn't great. You know?
Melissa:But even that, I mean, we all just know what these things are.
Jam:Right. You know?
Melissa:Yeah. Much easier to visualize a sweat pour and a coating coming over it or bacteria producing odors. So I think it does feel that way. You're right.
Jam:And it's interesting because deodorant is not messing with your body as much because the bacteria it's like, yeah. Just letting you sweat. And Deodorant's kinda not worried about the sweat for the most part. It's just worried about the bacteria, which is arguably not messing with our body, but messing with stuff that just happens to be on our body all the time and especially in our armpits.
Melissa:That's kinda how I feel. That's why I tend towards deodorant over antiperspirant, but, You know, don't hear me say one's necessarily better than the other. I don't feel like I know enough to say that for sure, but I like the idea of something messing with your body less, but I'm kind of a hippie. I don't mind putting things on my body as much as possible. So Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. Are you ready for some fun facts? You did great, by the way.
Jam:Is that it? Did I get those things right?
Melissa:Yeah. You got everything right. That was great. The only thing you didn't talk about was the was the incidents with diseases, but I think that's not really worth going back over. Right.
Melissa:Right. Right. Is we don't know.
Jam:Right. Right. I just be reiterating. Like, there are some theories and then well, they weren't sure. And other theories, and then they weren't sure.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Yeah. And that was interesting to me too because my Grandmother on my dad's side had Alzheimer's, and she died from complications with that. And so I was kinda sure to see if there's gonna be anything concrete there. But once again, sounds like there's not. So
Melissa:It doesn't seem like there is at this time. But, again, I'm not saying for sure, And I'm not someone who studies that, but that's what it seemed to me from what I read.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. Are you ready ready for your fun facts?
Jam:Yes. I'm very ready.
Melissa:K. Fun fact number 1. In recent decades, makers of deodorants and antiperspirants have begun Encapsulating active ingredients in time release polymer enclosures so that the products last longer. Holy. Isn't that amazing?
Jam:That sounds like a game changer. That's that's antiperspirants.
Melissa:I think those are the, like, 24 hour ones. You know?
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. That's antiperspirants and deodorants, and this was from the Calcutta Engineering News article.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And It said also many deodorants and antiperspirant companies have been developing additives that block the action of the bacteria's enzymes for turning odorless sweat into the unpleasant smell.
Jam:Mhmm. Wow.
Melissa:So it kind of has they're doing 2 cool new things there. Yeah. And then Preddy, doctor Preddy, who was the basis for a lot of this that I learned, He and his colleagues helped create additional ingredients that could distract the nose of nearby people from the bad stinky sweat smell. So, basically, Your odor receptors, like we talked about, can be inhibited by things that that are molecularly similar
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:But smell good. So you're almost just tricking them.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And it seemed that it was easier to trick men's noses than women's Noses.
Jam:That's weird.
Melissa:Isn't that crazy?
Jam:Yeah. Sounds like that guy and his team were were Working on some pretty cool stuff.
Melissa:Oh my gosh. I should have seen that coming. Okay. The third thing, this is also doctor Prady, and I saw this in a 1995 interview that he did with New York Times. So that was way long ago.
Melissa:They linked to it. Whenever he passed away, they wrote a new article and linked back to that one. And they mentioned that they're working on giving different nutrients to the bacteria that would produce non smelly byproducts. So, basically, just flooding The bacteria with other nutrients that would not make byproducts that smell bad and your odorless sweat would just hang out. Wow.
Melissa:That was in 1995. I don't know how it played out, but that's super interesting too. A fun avenue.
Jam:Yeah. Seriously.
Melissa:And last but not least, Every Friday, we have seminar in my chemistry department.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And we had a woman come who I believe actually is now going to be working at UNT.
Jam:Oh.
Melissa:And she talked to us about some of her research where they use bacteria to synthesize what they want. So this is not just something that happens in our bodies, but people will grow colonies of bacteria, feed them nutrients or chemical substances of some kind, and then the bacteria will have enzymes inside them that produce new compounds. And, basically, The bacteria are doing the synthesis for you.
Jam:Holy.
Melissa:Isn't that amazing?
Jam:Yeah. Seriously.
Melissa:My mind was blown. I didn't know you could do that. I'm not a biochemist, so it's possible that that's common knowledge, but it was not common knowledge to me.
Jam:Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Definitely not to be either.
Jam:I mean, in the sense that, like, I just feel like that's not the kind of thing people think about as possible with bacteria. It's more like a lot of us probably think the they're the bad guys. We're trying to, like, accomplish our stuff, and they're the ones messing stuff up.
Melissa:Right. But they can do really amazing things.
Jam:Yeah. We are
Melissa:So science is crazy and cool, and it can help you smell less bad, and it can help with a lot of other things too.
Jam:Do tweet. That's nuts. There's a lot there. Deodorant, who would've thought?
Melissa:I know. It's pretty dense episode. I almost cut it into 2, but we've a lot of 2 parters lately, so I figured we'd just do a nice long
Jam:one today. Is it talking about our week's time?
Melissa:I think it is. Awesome. Have any other questions, do you?
Jam:I don't think so. But I'll have to chew on for sure.
Melissa:Let's do it.
Jam:Okay. So My thing to share this time is not really a happy one, but, it's, you know, important to share anyway. My favorite coffee shop here in Denton called Crypto zoology. Super weird, very cool local spot, amazing coffee, And I'm very picky. So I'm not just saying I liked their couches or something or the style of the place.
Jam:I loved Most importantly, they had the best coffee in Denton.
Melissa:But their style and vibe also very good.
Jam:Also very good.
Melissa:Great place to study.
Jam:And, also, it's my opinion, by the way, but I definitely think they have the best coffee in Denton. They announced just a couple days ago that they are Having to close not just, like, the temporary closing that a lot of shops and local place have had to do, but they had to having to close permanently. And they won't so heartbreaking. Yeah. So they're not gonna return after after COVID's over.
Jam:So That was super, super sad. So I I mean, I think some people might not totally get it and think it's weird to, like, be that bummed about it. But, if they're not, like, coffee shop kind of people but if you are, then you I know you get it. It's like your favorite spot. The people you go see multiple times a week who remember your your order, remember your name, remember what you do, and just places that you feel like home away from home.
Melissa:Especially as a freelancer, that's almost like your office kind of.
Jam:Totally. There's a lot of times I'd go and and spend all day there. I'd have, like, A meeting or 2 and then also work on stuff in between or whatever. So, it's just a really good spot that, there was an amazing food truck that park outside of there. So it was like, like, all you needed was there.
Jam:Great coffee, great spot to work on stuff, and then some good food right outside. So I'm definitely bummed bummed for the shop owners who I I've gotten to know pretty well and, bummed that The coffee chat won't be around bum on behalf of, like, our whole town as well. So all that to say, like, obviously, that's really sad, and it's been been thinking about that a lot. But we've We've all got our places like that, I think, in our respective towns. A place we really hold dear.
Jam:Might not be coffee for you. You might be at restaurant or whatever. So all I have to say, just do whatever you can to support something local. We can't all support everything, but if you've got your spot, try your best to hold on to it, And do whatever you can within reason to to keep it going so that you can enjoy it once all this is over. So
Melissa:Dang, that was deep, Jim. And just so you guys know, Jam's sporting his hat from the coffee
Jam:shop. Yeah.
Melissa:He got just hours before they closed
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Support them. So he did his best, and it, you know, was tough.
Jam:Yeah. I'm like, man, why didn't that buy it doesn't have?
Melissa:You're like, I'll just pay your rent. Please stay open.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. Man, I wish I was rolling in it. That'd be great.
Jam:But, anyway, that's my thing. Sorry for it being sad, but I think it's real. So
Melissa:That's okay. I've got a happy one that I think you're gonna latch on to as well.
Jam:Okay. Sweet.
Melissa:Okay. So One incredible side effect of everything being weirdly closed down is a lot of teachers have been creative in their online homework resources, and we have been Just blown away by the support that we've been getting from chemistry teachers in high schools reaching out to us, talking about how they're using our show. Some Students have reached out to us and told us that they have been assigned our show as homework, and
Jam:Mhmm. I
Melissa:just can't tell you for me how that warms my heart. You know? I care about chemistry so much. I want people to enjoy learning about chemistry. I think it's really fun and applicable.
Melissa:We are getting to support teachers doing their job, making science accessible even in this weird Coronavirus time.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:It makes me a little emotional just thinking about it. Yeah. And this past week, actually, we got to Meet up with a high school class with mister Hollis' class in Illinois. Jim and I went on a Zoom meeting and met their advanced chemistry student seniors, and we talked about what college was gonna be like and any advice that they had and or that we had for them, and it was just a blast and really fun and just so encouraging for me to hear some of the stuff that they'd been working on. And so just getting to be a part of so many people's experience has been really awesome to hear about and be a part of.
Melissa:I'm just really thankful for that. So
Jam:Dude, yeah. It was totally awesome. I think it was hitting me hard too because I feel like at least on the chemistry side of things, I'm so along for the ride. I mean, that's not the part that that's not my my piece of this. All the tech side and all that stuff is is mine, so it's kinda crazy to realize some of that impact so suddenly by talking to Students who are trying to learn this stuff, and some of them are gonna, you know, try to make careers that are gonna be really involved in chemistry whether they're They're going into medicine or something or whatever.
Jam:It was like, oh, dude. This thing is Has a potential to have real impact to people's lives, which is kinda crazy. I just didn't expect that.
Melissa:Well and even in sharing it, I Could teach people all day long, but I did not have the capability to make a good sound quality product to put out. And you knew how to do all that and put it out places where people could Excess it easily, and you really made that possible. So you yeah. You're have a big impact. And some of the students specifically talked about how Jam's piece of explaining it back makes it easier to understand.
Melissa:So that was really cool.
Jam:And that is why we do that in the 1st place. So it's like it's just good to know that it helps, and it's not just helpful for me. Obviously, that's part of why we do it too so that I can make sure I know it. But, yeah, it was really encouraging. It was awesome to get to meet them.
Jam:They're A lot of them seem like they're gonna go far and have some cool goals and aspirations and stuff. So it's just kinda crazy to have even a little piece of their their life trajectory and their learning. So
Melissa:Yeah. It really was awesome, and I'm really thankful that we got to Got to be a part of that.
Jam:Amen.
Melissa:So thank you so much, mister Hollis, for reaching out and to all of the educators who've reached out To us and students who have told us how we've been able to supplement your experience, that's really been so cool. And thanks to all of you guys who are listening right now. We couldn't do it without you.
Jam:Yeah. Thanks so much, guys. Melissa and I have a lot of ideas for topics of chemistry in everyday life, we wanna hear from you. So if you have thoughts or ideas, please reach out to us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, email at kem for your life. That's kem, f o r, Your life to share your thoughts and ideas.
Jam:If you do this podcast, you can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. If you really like it, you can write a review on Apple Podcasts. That helps us to be able to share chemistry with even more people. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, Go to kodashfi.com/chem for your life, and donate the cost of a cup of coffee.
Melissa:This episode of Chemistry For Your Life was created by Melissa Colini and J. M. Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to In Newell and A.
Melissa:Colini who reviewed this episode.
