How do color changing markers change color?
Hey, everyone. As the listener base of Chemistry For Your Life has been expanding, Jim and I have been brainstorming new ways to keep the show growing. Right now, our limiting factors are honestly time and money. So far, we've covered the cost of hosting the show for 1 more year, which is very exciting, and that is totally thanks to you guys, buying merch and donating online to our. However, if we wanna expand To be able to devote more time to the show, to try new things, or bring on special guests, even just to maintain our audio equipment, we need to have the financial flexibility to do those things.
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Jam:Thank you guys so much for listening and for your support. We literally could not have the show without you. And now on to today's episode.
Melissa:Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist. And I'm not. And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Okay, Jam. Today, we are going to walk down nostalgia lane.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:I just hopped right in there. I didn't greet you. Just For the listeners, so you know, Jam and I have just been in a meeting for an hour. So we've already done all our grading, just for the record.
Jam:True. Yeah. That's true.
Melissa:I'm not I'm not cold hearted. I do care about how he's doing, which I assume is pretty good.
Jam:Yeah. Well, you didn't even ask, so you wouldn't know. Well, you're I'm good.
Melissa:You're about to be better because we're gonna walk down nostalgia
Jam:lane. Oh, okay. Awesome.
Melissa:Okay. When you were a kid, did you ever have those markers where You colored with 1 color, and then you had a clear or white marker that went over it and changed the color magically.
Jam:I did very much so have those. Okay. So
Melissa:we're gonna talk. We're gonna undo the magic of magic markers, and we're gonna talk about what Actually, it's happening instead of magic.
Jam:Nice. Okay. Cool. So this is meaning, like, not magic markers like some people Called Sharpies and the and the like magic markers?
Melissa:Right.
Jam:This is, like, actual magic markers.
Melissa:The color changing ones.
Jam:Color changing markers. Got it. Okay. Cool.
Melissa:Mhmm. Specifically, that kind where you have another marker that changes the colors.
Jam:Okay. Sweet. Sweet.
Melissa:Okay. And the reason we're gonna talk about that is because we had an organic chemist write in. His name is Scott. He was really nice. He also mentioned that now he works as a patent agent, so there are chemists who work for patent agencies to check out the chemistry.
Melissa:Uh-huh. And I thought that was good information to include because that just kind of tells you there's other things to do with the chemistry PhD besides just becoming a professor or working in research.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So he wrote in and said that he and his kids have color changing markers, and he didn't know how they worked. And I felt like that was a really good question and a great episode idea for this week.
Jam:Jude, awesome. Sounds perfect to me too.
Melissa:Okay. So here's the very basics basicest way of communicating what happens when you have a color changing marker.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:The clear or white pen that you write over the Old marker that's already on the paper width Uh-huh. Causes a chemical reaction to take place only in the spot where you draw that marker.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And that chemical reaction changes the color.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So that's it. That's the basic explanation.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:It's a chemical reaction right there. If you don't want any more details, you can just move ahead to the part where we talk about our weeks. But I wanna give you more details.
Jam:Yeah. I was gonna say that, like, leaves a lot of the the mystery there where it's like, k. Maybe I woulda guessed it. It's a converse reaction.
Melissa:But it's kind of a little bit complicated. So I just wanted to give people an out. You know? Oh, okay. Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. So All of these are gonna be slightly different chemicals because they're different pigments or colors to make different colored markers.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But, generally, there in your marker one is what we're gonna call the colorful marker that you color with first.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:In marker 1, there are 2 different types of dyes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Usually, 2 different colors of dyes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:One of those dyes can be changed with different conditions, and the other dye will stay the same color no matter what. Well, no matter what it's exposed to in this scenario.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:So that's marker 1. Marker 2 has something in it that will change the conditions of the 1 dye that's able to be changed colors.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Usually, what it does is make the changeable dye lose its color.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So instead of seeing the mixture of 2 dyes, you're now only seeing 1 of the dyes.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:Okay. Does that make sense?
Jam:Yes. I believe so.
Melissa:Can you say it back to me real quick just so we make sure that we're tracking? Because it's kind of hard to explain colors with only voices.
Jam:That's true. Yeah. That is true. Man, I thought you guys could see how amazing this looks. So marker 1 Mhmm.
Jam:Is the one we draw with first. Edit Mhmm. Is colorful. It has 2 types of dyes in it. Mhmm.
Jam:One that will stay the same In this scenario, even if we draw over with a different marker
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And another dye that is able to be affected by the other marker. Mhmm. It can be changed.
Melissa:Yep.
Jam:So we draw a line With marker 1
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And then we draw over that with marker 2. Marker 2 is able to make One of the colors in that's one of the dyes in marker 1 turned clear instead.
Melissa:That's right.
Jam:Okay. Sweet. So you're just left with one of the colors
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Basically. So
Melissa:Yeah. A good example of this is if you have a green marker. I don't know if this is So they're chemically accurate, but this is just to help you visualize it.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:If you had a green marker, green is usually made up of blue and yellow. Right?
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So if you could somehow color over your green marker to eliminate the yellow, you'd only be left with blue.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:That's basically what happens in a color changing marker.
Jam:Nice. Okay. Cool.
Melissa:So you have 2 colors, and then you eliminate one of them to get a new color.
Jam:Yeah. Nice.
Melissa:So that's a Slightly more complicated explanation of what happens.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Now we're gonna talk about, at the molecular level, what happens.
Jam:Okay. Nice.
Melissa:Okay. So this is the nitty gritty. This may sound familiar to you because it is very similar chemistry to what happens in a color changing mug as well.
Jam:Okay. I was But to ask if it was related at all or if it was, like, a totally different kind of process because we talked about that mug Last year, I feel like. I can't remember.
Melissa:Feels like a while ago. About a year ago. This has come up a lot, but do you remember the word conjugation?
Jam:Yes. I do remember that word.
Melissa:Okay. Conjugation, it means alternating double bonds.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Means other things in different context, but in chemistry, it means alternating double bonds.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:And those double bonds, the way they alternate sort of makes it where the electrons can move around and have a nice highway.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And when you have that phenomenon On of the conjugation with electrons being able to move around, if there's a lot of alternating double bonds, it's called highly conjugated.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:That is a characteristic of a molecule that has a lot of color. The reason it does that, we've talked About this in the bleach episode and even in the color changing mug episode is because color is determined by the amount of energy that electrons can Absorb, basically. We go way more in-depth on this on the bleach episode.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And something about the conjugated bonds allows the electrons to absorb energy in just the right range to give the molecule color.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That's a very brief overview. If you want more in-depth, you can head on back to the bleach episode. Okay. Okay. So We have pigments and dyes at play in these markers, and they are highly conjugated.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:And then you expose the highly conjugated dye to Something basic, has extra electrons, and a reducing agent that Does an oxidation reduction reaction like we talked about in the rest episode.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And both of those things Add in electrons.
Jam:K.
Melissa:Enough electrons to break One of those double bonds and make 2 separate single bonds out of it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So, basically, adding in electrons disrupts the electron highway. It stops traffic. And when the traffic is stopped, it changes The way that the electrons can absorb energy, and therefore, it can eliminate the color altogether.
Jam:Weird.
Melissa:This is also similar to the concept we talked about in why things fade in the sun. Right.
Jam:Right. Dude, crazy.
Melissa:Yeah. It it is crazy. And it it really is a concept. It's come up so many times, but it still is just hard to grasp because it's just kinda weird that alternating double bonds means color. And if you break one of those alternating double bonds, that means no color.
Jam:Yeah. That's really strange.
Melissa:Interrupts the flow. So just to summarize, in color changing markers, in marker 1, there are 2 dyes, One that is very stable and one that can be impacted as a result of the changing conditions
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:That will be introduced from marker 2. When marker 2 is introduced, it will impact one of the dyes and make it colorless by literally changing the molecular structure of it. Mhmm. So once the molecular Structure is changed. It's no longer a dye, basically.
Melissa:It's just something else, basically. That's funny because The base and the reducing agent cause it. That's a little chemistry joke for myself. So it Change is the actual structure of the molecule to make it so that it's no longer colorful, and then you're left
Jam:with
Melissa:just 1 color. The the original marker, one of the dies has been destroyed.
Jam:Dang. Wow.
Melissa:So that's an overview of magic markers and how they work. So I've destroyed the magic for you like the marker number 2 destroy destroys the dye.
Jam:Wow. Dang.
Melissa:Yeah. Do you wanna take a stab at explaining that back to me?
Jam:Yes. So I think one of the things that helped me kinda visualize what's going on the best was you used the word traffic to Describe what's going on at the molecular level in these markers in the dyes. So the dyes in marker one, When you've drawn a line with it, we're seeing a lot of color. Mhmm. And that's because they have a lot of alternating Double bonds or conjugation.
Jam:Right. So the reason that they appear really colorful is that The with those alternating double bonds acting like a highway, like you said, they can move around very freely in a way that happens to be in a range of visible light and color to us That makes those dyes really colorful?
Melissa:Yes. I will say you said they move around and that they is electrons.
Jam:Yes. Right. Right.
Melissa:Because electrons are what make up bonds? A bond is made up of 2 electrons, generally shared electrons. And so the alternating double bonds are really like alternating pairs of electrons that can move around.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And they're the thing that absorb light and then reemit the light, and we see light as color or they absorb energy or,
Jam:you
Melissa:know, different things. We've talked about that a lot. Don't wanna get bogged down in the details for our magic marker situation.
Jam:Yeah. So we're seeing that. It's great. We're seeing the what the line we just drew, with our marker number 1. Then we take marker number 2, And we draw on top of it.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And marker number 2, being a violent little marker, Has a lot of stuff going on that is about to disrupt what we just put on our paper with marker number 1.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:So it is very basic. Right? Which means it has a lot of electrons that are extra that it Basically, sort of doesn't want. Right? Would like to get rid of those if it can.
Melissa:Yeah. Usually, Bases are looking for something that doesn't have enough electrons.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And there's also a reducing agent in there that does something similar. It's trying to give away those electrons.
Jam:Nice. I guess you could think of it as, like, mean because it's destroying things, but also it has a lot and it's kinda being generous. So I guess it depends on your Are you like a bases are generous or bases are evil kind of glass half full, gothammerly kind of person?
Melissa:Yeah. It's kinda weird because, Normally, if electrons are taken from 1 molecule, given to another, or if they're shared, it's it's a positive thing. It's a good thing, Not a positive in terms of charge. Positive in terms of you get good feelings, a new thing is made, everything's great.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:But in this case, if a new bond is made, it's taking away from the highway of alternating double bonds. And so even though a new thing is made, it's also sort of destructive.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm. And that highway and traffic and all that metaphor kinda stuff made me think of you're adding all of these electrons into what was a pretty healthy flow ecosystem, whatever you wanna say, of electrons. Just like if you had, you know, a highway that had a lot of cars on it, but it was flowing. Things were good.
Jam:You know, traffic was moving. Everything was in a good, you know, range of the amount of cars we've got on this highway or how many we can handle, And it's we've got a really good traffic system going. No one's no one's getting bogged down and delayed on their way to wherever they're going. And then if you could just imagine being able to suddenly add a lot of cars to it
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Even though It can probably handle them, and since it's not like everything just completely, like, explodes or falls apart, you know, our highways don't completely, like, just fall apart under the pressure of the cars. It does change the flow of things
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Drastically, which in this case, For us seeing the visible light that is being absorbed and then re emitted by these electrons, It changes that, and we do not see it anymore. And the bonds change
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:As well.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Right?
Melissa:While you're talking, I also thought of a river. You know, you've got a riverbed, and that could be the single bonds that make up the back Bone. And then the water is these alternating double bonds, Alexa let electrons flow.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And if you come and build a dam, even though that's building something new Mhmm.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Mhmm. In a way, it's destructive because it keeps the water from flowing. Nice. And it changes the very nature of the river, and it can become a lake or whatever.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Interesting.
Melissa:So we are changing the molecular structure so that the electrons can't flow anymore, and therefore, they're not going to give you The same color that they did before. We're taking something and making it into something new.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm. But in this case, I guess it is a cool thing that is happening.
Melissa:Yeah. It is really cool.
Jam:Yeah. It's not it's destructive in a way, but also it's like the whole point.
Melissa:Yeah. So and we've kind of seen this theme happen before. We saw things fading in the sunlight because the alternating double bonds, get interrupted or destroyed, that is by a different mechanism. It's by sunlight and energy, not by adding in electrons.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:Uh-huh. Or we've seen that with the color changing mugs. That one was controlled by heat. There was an acid base reaction, I think, that happened based on heat that moved electrons around.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And then we're gonna see it here as well. It's It's a reaction that moves electrons around to go from something very colorful to not very colorful.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:And because that's been kind of hard to visualize, I think, I'm gonna go ahead and try really hard to remember if if This episode is out, and you can't find it on social media. You can message us, but I'm gonna try really hard to remember to draw out a little tutorial of What changes in the magic marker? I'll just pick 1 die and show how it changes so that you can visualize it.
Jam:Nice. Cool.
Melissa:Okay. So that's it. I'm I'm very impressed. You were hanging in there with me. I was a little worried about this episode.
Jam:Yeah. It's definitely complicated, and and it definitely is, like, Very far removed from how we think of these things normally. So I think it is Yeah. Definitely challenging.
Melissa:Yeah. Some things have a very clear, oh, I get it because in In my everyday life, I can see this. Yeah. This one is the ideas of color and light is more abstract, and that's always been a little bit more difficult for me to Yeah. With.
Melissa:So
Jam:Yeah. Same dude. I hear that for sure.
Melissa:Well, that wraps up our chemistry lesson. Do you wanna move into talking about our weeks this week?
Jam:Yes. I've got a small something that was kinda cool about my week this week. I decided to ring in the spring, Which we are in now, I believe Oh,
Melissa:I know what this is gonna be.
Jam:With making my 1st batch of cold brew The for the year?
Melissa:New it. Mhmm.
Jam:2021, I have not made any cold brew yet. And so I getting a little warmer, and I was got able to get my cold brew stuff unpacked from the box it was stashed in And got that going the other day, and I yeah. It's very exciting. It makes me feel like it's definitely spring now that I have Cold brew, and I haven't had it in a long time. So
Melissa:I also started making cold brew this week. Nice. So that's kinda fun.
Jam:We were on the same schedule. You know?
Melissa:Right. It just seemed like time, I guess. My cold brew is less intensive than jams, so I thought it would be easier. So that was part of did it too. Yeah.
Jam:It is. I mean, I guess it's like even though month's a little bit crazier, but it is nice because you You do all that work upfront. You know?
Melissa:That's true.
Jam:It's over, and you just have a batch of Clover. So
Melissa:And that's great.
Jam:So I'm excited about that. That's a big deal. And I might end up tweaking my recipe a little bit more again this year. Who knows? We'll see what happens.
Melissa:Who knows? It's your chemistry experiment.
Jam:What about you? What happened in your week this week?
Melissa:Well, it was my birthday.
Jam:Uh-huh. I knew about that.
Melissa:You did know about that? It was just really nice of my 2nd quarantine birthday.
Jam:Oh, yeah. Weird.
Melissa:Yeah. I do was just on the very beginning of quarantine happening last year at this time.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So It feels very different. Last year was sort of doom and gloom. It was dark. There was things that we didn't know it was gonna happen. It's scary.
Melissa:And this year was hope is on the horizon. Vaccines are coming at us so quick nowadays.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And it feels like things are going to change soon and go back to normal. Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of nice, and it was just kinda chill. I ate a lot of good food.
Melissa:I So Shelly distantly saw some people, and it was really fun. Our friend Miriam made me the cutest little cookie Cake with some succulents on it, so that was precious. So it was a good time.
Jam:Dude, yeah. It's definitely fun. It was cool to see some people and do it in a safe way, but also get to, like, be outside. The weather was nice and feel a little bit, like, a chance to socialize, which is not nearly as common these days and stuff, so it was cool. I'm glad you did that.
Melissa:Yeah. It was really a nice I celebrate birth week, so it was a nice birth week Mhmm. A day. I got 4 new plants, which was really exciting, And our friends do a 30 for 30 gift basket, which is always really fun. And so I got 30 small gifts in a little basket.
Melissa:It was very exciting, and they were all perfectly on point. Exactly the kinds Those small gifts I would want in a basket, and so that felt nice to be so known, including some Spindrift, some Doctor Pepper's, Those little plants, it was very exciting.
Jam:Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, that's fun.
Melissa:Well, thanks, Jam, for, you know, helping me celebrate and a part of my 30 for 30 basket.
Jam:Of course.
Melissa:And thanks for coming and learning about color changing markers. And thanks to all of you listeners as well for coming and learning about color changing markers because we literally could not do this podcast without you, and it is so fun to be able to teach you guys every week.
Jam:And thank you for teaching us. And my, like, childhood self would be amazed to know these details. I remember loving those markers. And you guys, please share your ideas of chemistry in everyday life with us. Melissa and I have some of our own, but Some of the best ideas come from y'all.
Jam:So if you have questions or ideas, reach out to us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at chem for your life. That's chem, f o r, your life to share your thoughts and ideas. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, go to kodashfi.com/ Chem for your life, and doing it at the cost of a cup of coffee. You can give us 1 cup of coffee, or you can subscribe to give us a cup of coffee every month. And if you do that before the end of May, you will get a free sticker and thank you note from Melissa and I.
Jam:But if you're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast Dapp in rating and writing our review on Apple Podcasts. That also helps us to be able to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Collini and Jim Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jam Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to s Navarro and v Garza who reviewed this episode.
