How do ADHD and Adderall™ change the chemistry in our brains?
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helped you understand the chemistry of your everyday life. And if it's your 1st time listening to our podcast or you're new ish, just a little more info. Melissa actually really is a chemist.
Melissa:That's true.
Jam:And she's got her master's. She teaches chemistry at the university. Chemistry. Yeah. Organic chemistry.
Jam:And she is inches away from her PhD.
Melissa:Right. And I probably just a few days away when this comes out.
Jam:Right. Right. So yeah. Very, very close. And then I, on the flip side, truly, truly, I say unto you, I am not
Melissa:the
Jam:chemist in any way, shape, or form. I'm just like many of you. I'm just Here, because I'm interested in chemistry, I wanna learn it. And every episode, I learn it for the 1st time live right in front of your ears.
Melissa:It's true. But I will say, though, Jam is a radio, television, and film expert. That's what his degree is in.
Jam:That's true.
Melissa:And he is the reason that we have awesome sound quality. So we are thankful for the way our expertise mesh to bring you this show.
Jam:Super different expertises that happen to Weirdly just work out, and it is a a weird bonus that I am interested in science and chemistry And stuff, originally, when Melissa and I were talking about this podcast, it was just that I had the technical know how stuff to help her do it. And then I was like, but, also, I wanna Learn it.
Melissa:Also teach me science, he said.
Jam:Can I be the person that learns the science, please?
Melissa:So it worked out perfectly.
Jam:So welcome. We're glad you're here.
Melissa:We're so glad you're here. So and Jim actually already knows the topic of today's episode because I was really excited to share about it because it's something really personal to me. And I just wanted to sort of run by him that that's what we are going to do. So but he still hasn't learned it yet. He just already knows.
Jam:Right. Right. I don't have any advantage.
Melissa:Right. Actually, normally, y'all have the advantage because you know what you're gonna learn when you click on the episode, and he usually doesn't. When we start recording, that's when he finds out what we're gonna talk about usually. Yeah.
Jam:That's true.
Melissa:So what we're gonna talk about today is ADHD and, medication for ADHD. I'm not a neuroscientist, and the brain is really, really complicated. So I'm gonna zoom in just on the function of dopamine in the brain and how Treatments work in the brain. If there are neuroscientists out there who take issue with my oversimplification, I totally understand, but I really wanted to focus on the molecules how they're able to do their jobs. So I kinda wanted to give that disclaimer.
Melissa:And I also wanted to say that part of why I really wanted to share about this is because I was diagnosed with ADHD. And, really, at the end of this episode, I want to take time to share about What it was like to be diagnosed with ADHD, especially at the end of my graduate school career. I've been in graduate school for, my master's degree, my PhD for 7 years now. And so I think people are surprised when they hear that, but it's really, really impacted my life significantly, and I wanna talk about some of those struggles as a scientist because that's something that we don't get a chance to hear about very often and that academia doesn't really emphasize. And so I want to use this platform to address that.
Jam:Mhmm. Awesome.
Melissa:Yeah. So that being said, I think this is gonna be a little bit of a different episode. It's gonna be longer, and I'm gonna be pretty vulnerable and share about what my experiences have been like. We're gonna try to keep a lot of that at the end. So, you know, if after the chemistry lesson, you wanna bounce out, that's fine.
Melissa:But I do want to really take this opportunity to share about what ADHD has looked like for me, which may not Be what people expect ADHD to look like in their lives and possibly have the opportunity to connect with other people who are struggling with something Similar. But first, we're gonna do a science lesson.
Jam:Okay. Sweet.
Melissa:Okay. And I also am gonna sort of pull the rug out from under you because the only way I could Figure out how to teach this was with an analogy. Man. Okay. I know.
Melissa:But it's not a perfect analogy. So But I do think it will help us to kinda be tracking with what's going on in the brain.
Jam:Okay. Okay. Cool.
Melissa:So a ton of what Happens in our brain is regulated by chemicals.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Like, your whole personality I mean, really, your whole body is just chemicals. Everything is made up of atoms, and so the interaction of everything is atom interaction. And so that's all basically just chemistry.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:The specific study of chemistry within biological things is biochemistry. So to be more specific, it is biochemistry. And even more specifically, when we get into the brain, it's neuroscience. And, actually, I love neuroscience, And not very many people know this, but for a hot minute in college, I was a neuroscience major. Oh.
Melissa:And then I realized that I cared more about the molecules than what was thing in the brain. And, ironically, I thought working with human subjects would not be fun. And now all I do is research with human subjects, so that's kinda funny. But
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:But so I switched back to chemistry. I'm so glad I did. I love the chemistry work that I get to do, obviously. Mhmm. But that Goes to show that there's so much chemistry in the brain.
Melissa:Right? There's so many molecules that are at play here. And we're only gonna talk about a few. And some of the big players that we're gonna talk about are called monoamines. They're also sometimes referred to as neurotransmitters.
Melissa:They are molecules that send signals when they bind to receptors in the brain.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:So the reason they're called monoamines is many of these molecules have 1 amine functional group, monoamine.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And a functional group we've talked about before is basically a collection of atoms that can be found over and over. So o h is the one that is an alcohol functional group. It's oxygen and then hydrogen, and it's on a lot of different things, Like, isopropyl alcohol, ethanol, methanol, all these things you've heard before, those are all characterized by having this Alcohol group, this oxygen hydrogen group on them.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So an amine is a similar type of functional group. It has a nitrogen with 3 things bonded to it. In this case, the nitrogen is bound to a a molecule, A chain of carbons, and it has 2 hydrogens on it.
Jam:Okay. And we've talked so amines have come up at some point. I just cannot remember when or why, but That word is familiar to me.
Melissa:I'm sure that they they might have come up when we did the Maillard reaction. But they They're very common in nature because amino acids have I think, technically, they have a Slightly different functional group, but amines are very, very present in nature.
Jam:Okay. Got it.
Melissa:And you've also ammonium is For ammonia, those are types of amines. They are, nitrogen with either 3 or 4 hydrogens around them. Ammonium chloride is a nitrogen with 4 hydrogens around it that then makes a salt when it interacts with chlorine. So It means ammonium, very, very common.
Jam:Got it. Got it. I didn't even think about that that how much it sounds like ammonia Yes. And stuff. But, yeah, that makes sense.
Melissa:So they all, go together. And, many of the of the chemicals in our brain are In this class of monoamines. So they have 1 amine group. Usually, that is more than just amine group that's important. There's a benzene ring, which we've talked about before.
Melissa:It's the ring of carbons, and then there's a carbon chain. And at the end of the carbon chain, there's this Amine group.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So that's kind of what we mean by monoamine. And there can be slight alterations around either the benzene ring or on the carbon chain. But for the most part, you've got a benzene ring attached to a carbon chain, and there's a nitrogen at the end. So you can kind of imagine a 6 membered carbon ring And then a bridge connecting it to an amine kind of a bridge of carbon connecting it to this nitrogen atom at the end.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So this is a class of molecules called monoamines. The big ones are dopamine, Noradrenaline and ephedrine. So you've probably heard of some of those.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Those molecules, Among many other things that they do, they regulate our reward center, and they send chemical signals when they bind to receptors in our brain.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So people with ADHD don't have enough dopamine. Notice that's amine in it? Dopamine? I mean?
Jam:Another area where I didn't even think about the sound being similar.
Melissa:I think you're gonna see that a lot today. Yeah.
Jam:That's crazy.
Melissa:So dopamine, There's not enough of it in the brain. Okay. And there's some there was 1 paper I read that actually there may be other abnormalities in the brain of people with ADHD, Steve, but the biggest thing that we know now and that is treated right now is there's not enough dopamine in their brains in my brain. There's not enough dopamine in my brain Yeah. And everyone else who has this.
Melissa:So when our brains need dopamine To be available to grab up, it's sometimes known as extracellular domain dopamine, like, outside of the cells.
Jam:Got
Melissa:it. There's not enough that can be grabbed up, so our brains cannot send the signals they need to send. So our brains literally cannot function properly.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So there's a lot of ways that impacts those of us without enough dopamine. And a lot of what I think The joke about ADHD is is that you just get distracted, you know, or Yeah. Whatever, and that's part of it. But there's a lot more. So I'm gonna read a quote from, one of the references that we cited in here.
Melissa:You can go find that paper. It's actually an open access journal. Executive control networks are affected in patients with ADHD. The executive control Networks coordinate executive functioning, meaning planning, goal directed behavior, inhibition, working memory, flexible adaptation Patient to context. These networks are underactivated, and they have lower connectivity in individuals with ADHD compared to individuals without the disorder.
Melissa:So Planning, initiation of motor response, changing tasks, reaction to novelty, reward, being able to behave in a way that's in line with your goals, having a good memory, those are all things that can be impacted by not having enough dopamine in your brain. I'll talk about, again, at the end, some of how that plays out in my life, But I think we just have this idea that ADHD is you just get distracted easily. Like, oh, squirrel. Oh, I'm go I'm Right. I'm looking at this other thing now.
Melissa:But it's so much more than that. It's
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It really can impact literally your ability to behave in a way that's in line with your goals. Or Sometimes my husband will be like, are you ready to go for a walk? And I say yes. And what that means to me is actually I'm ready to start switching My brain from 1 task to another, and he's literally ready to walk out the door.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So it plays out in all these subtle ways because your dopamine is regulating so so much of what's happening in your brain.
Jam:Right. Right. And, like, when people generalize to say, like, it's just being distracted or whatever, I think What's tough is that probably most of us would fit that bill.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:So it's gotta be more than just that because We're all I mean, today, with the number of distractions we have in most of our lives
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Always easily distracted compared to maybe the average person, You know, 60 years ago or something like that.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:So it's gotta be more than just distractibility because that's more about external factors, not as much about Right. You know
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Internal. And so that makes total sense to me. There's gotta be there's more more going on in the workings of your brain
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And then just, like, How easily someone could get your attention from one thing to another.
Melissa:Right. I I totally agree. I think a lot of us are more distracted, even people who have, the perfect amount of dopamine in their brain because we are used to getting extra dopamine hits from looking at our phone.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:But people who have ADHD have so much less Dopamine that actually we are our brains Mhmm. Subconsciously are constantly looking for dopamine hits.
Jam:Ah, I see.
Melissa:So we will switch from 1 task to another because we're seeking out things that are going to give us more dopamine. So for me, that looks like picking up my phone over and over.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It also looks like eating sugar until I'm Sick. Because I know that's kinda funny. Right? But I I didn't know how other people could stop eating dessert after 1 or 2. Uh-huh.
Melissa:Because literally people with ADHD crave dessert because it gives a dopamine hit that our brain is missing.
Jam:I see. Not just the, like, sweet taste that everybody loves or whatever.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And we all probably get a little dopamine, but, like, you're craving it more.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:And I do think we can we want those extra dopamine levels. Like, dopamine makes us feel good. Right? So that's why we that's part of why we love dessert is it tastes good. It gives us a dopamine hit.
Melissa:But but it's so much harder for me to control that. Like, there's a cake shop on the way home from work to my house. Uh-huh. And before I started my medicine, I would think as soon as I remember that that cake shop were there, I would, the whole way there, think about it if I should Stop and get cake or not and, like, have to talk myself out of it every single day Wow. Because I wanted it so badly.
Melissa:And then after I started taking my medicine, I was like, oh, that was not Normal. That was like my brain wanted candy so or dessert so badly Yeah. That it just, like, couldn't stop thinking about that.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
Melissa:So that is how it plays out differently than normal normal, quote, unquote, normal. I don't even know if there's, like, a normal person, but People who have the right amount of dopamine.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And then also just, like, the forgetfulness stuff, like, all that also plays out.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So that's what ADHD is and what the symptoms are is literally seeking dopamine hits constantly because you don't have enough.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So that also means that it's hard for us to do the things we're supposed to do, so we procrastinate. We're forgetful. Like, the whole Function of doing what we should be doing. I really want an a in this class, but I cannot make myself do my homework Yeah. Is because your executive is literally not working.
Melissa:So that's what ADHD is. But I wanna talk about the chemistry of ADHD, Not just that the dopamine's not there, but what even the dopamine sort of does and how treatment helps.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So In our brains, there's places where monoamines like dopamine are generated and stored. And then there's also a transport system that will take them over to somewhere else, in that other place, this storage facility. So it's, like, generated and stored here, but then it gets transferred to more of, like, I would say, long term storage, but also it's accessible to the brain when it's in this other storage center. That's Whenever your neurons need it in the storage center, we'll send it out and you can collect it.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So the way I thought about this Actually, is in terms of, my husband's job. So this is my analogy. So my husband works as an engineer at a place where trucks are made.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So and his specific job is actually seats.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So seats are just one part of a truck, But if you don't have a seat, you cannot sell your truck.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:If there's not a seat for the driver to sit in, the the truck essentially is not functioning.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Okay. So in this analogy, the seats are the dopamine in your brain.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And the truck being able to work is your brain.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So there is a place where they outsource their seats from. So that would be, like, the initial Synthesize and generate seats and short term stored there.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And then it gets transported to to the factory where my husband works, where the trucks are made.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And they're also stored there, but when they need to be used, they can be used Because they're stored in a way that's accessible there.
Jam:They're readily available.
Melissa:Readily available.
Jam:Put new truck anytime they need to.
Melissa:Yes. K. So we've got The seat manufacturer place Uh-huh. Where the seats are made and and stored, and then they get transported to the factory 3 that the trucks are made in.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Okay. So there's also, Within this whole system, say, a department who is responsible for getting rid of any extra seats if you have an excess, like somebody who will take them and ship them off elsewhere.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:Those are the major players here. Okay. So the monoamines, specifically dopamine, this seat are the seats. The truck Being finished is our brain being able to do executive function, and then there is an enzyme that breaks down Extra dopamine in your brain. That's the person who's in charge of getting rid of extra seats.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:The Factory where the seats are made is called the cytosolic storage pool for anyone who cares. And the, place where it's Stored that the brain can more easily access it is the vesicular. So I think it's like vesicle storage pool.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So, again, this is simplified way down. I'm not really talking a lot about synapses or, like, how the brain gets it or the receptors or anything. I'm just talking about What the dopamine does, and then I'm gonna talk about how the amphetamine gets in there K. And changes it. Okay.
Melissa:So those are the big players. The seat factory, the truck factory, and the, Person who gets rid of the extra seats.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So that's your the seat factory is the place that makes the seats. That's the place that makes your dopamine.
Jam:K.
Melissa:Then it gets transported over here to the the place where the truck factory can use it. Mhmm. And then the truck factory is your brain. Okay. Great.
Melissa:Now imagine this is a reality, actually, that there are a lot there's just shortage Right now, there's a ton of short shortages right now in the industry. Yeah. So The truck company cannot get the seats that it needs. The the people who are in charge of getting the seats out are are going to try to pull the seats that they need to put in these trucks, and the seats just aren't there.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:They don't have all the seats they need, so they can't make the trucks.
Jam:In some way, there aren't enough seats at the truck factory readily available.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Okay. Got it.
Melissa:And that's partially because The seat factory isn't making the seats it needs to make.
Jam:Got it. It's either slow or something's gone wrong over there.
Melissa:Something's gone wrong. Yeah. So the truck company hires a consulting firm. Right?
Jam:Right.
Melissa:The Consulting firm gets in there and shakes things up. Okay? So the consulting firm to solve this problem would do 3 things, not in real life. This is Now I'm talking about what Adderall will do. Uh-huh.
Melissa:But this is like imagine if the consulting firm just went ham and they did, some crazy things. Yeah. One, they, make fake chairs that they can plant At the chair factory. So the chair factory thinks it has enough chairs that it can send out the real ones.
Jam:Okay. Interesting.
Melissa:Kinda make they make dummy chairs, and they trick the chair factory into thinking there's enough chairs to be just sending chairs out.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:Receipts out.
Jam:Seats. Right. So, basically, kind of tricking and thinking like, hey. We gotta we're pretty full. We gotta start getting rid of some of these.
Melissa:Yes. Okay. Exactly. So that's one thing the consulting firm does. The next thing the consulting firm does is retrofit The truck factory to start making its own seats.
Melissa:They're like, we know you have some in storage here, but this is honestly just not enough. So you need to Actually, start pumping some out as well.
Jam:Yeah. Wouldn't it be nice to cut out the middleman kinda thing Mhmm. And have your own seats right here that you could make.
Melissa:Right. And then they give the guy whose job it is to get rid of extra seats. They give him other tasks, so he's distracted. So he's not getting rid of seats.
Jam:Right. Right. Because he will be getting rid of seats needed. That are needed, especially maybe Continuing to do his job, get receipts while they're even maybe
Melissa:In short supply.
Jam:In short supply, he would keep doing his job.
Melissa:So this breaks down the actual analogy a little bit because I don't know why someone would be getting rid of seats that are needed. But Yeah. That's literally what your brain does. So let's bring this analogy back to your brain.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So there's an enzyme in your brain getting rid of dopamine that doesn't need to be got rid of. The The dopamine factory and storage centers don't have enough dopamine, and so we've gotta address all 3 of those things.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So enter Adderall, the consulting firm. Adderall is a trademark name. It's also called are you ready? Yeah. Amphetamine.
Melissa:Amine.
Jam:Amine.
Melissa:Yes. So it's a specific type of amine. The, chemical official name is 1 Phenylpropen 2 amine. The biological short common name is alpha methyl Phenethylamine? They have a weird extra ethylene there, but I they're trying to indicate the length of the bridge between the The ring in the nitrogen.
Melissa:Uh-huh. So that's why it's called amphetamine. This is shorting shortening of that alpha methylphenol. Let me
Jam:Got it. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Melissa:Cool. So Adderall or amphetamine is the consulting firm.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:So Adderall has amphetamine has a very similar structure to all those other monoamines. It has those major features. It has The benzene ring with a bridge to an amine group.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And so it will come and act as an imposter in the That cytosolic storage system where the dopamine is generated and initially stored. And that makes The that storage system think, oh, we gotta kick this out, and we gotta start transporting some out to where the brain can get it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But then at the same time, amphetamine actually kind of hops in that transport system.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And so the receiving place, the vesicle storage thinks it's not getting enough dopamine, So it should probably start releasing more dopamine out. So instead of taking dopamine in, now it's releasing dopamine too. So now you have dopamine being transported to some place out to where it's freely available, and you have being released from the thing that normally takes it up and stores it for a while, and Adderall blocks the enzyme, amphetamine. It's a similar enough structure that it can go in and block that enzyme that's trying to break down extra dopamine.
Jam:Got it. Interesting.
Melissa:So because it's so structurally similar, it can Basically be an imposter in the part of the brain that's trying to release dopamine and tricks that part of the brain into releasing more, And it also convinces by blocking the amount of dopamine that's actually being transferred, convinces another start of part of the brain to start releasing more dopamine instead of holding on tight to it, and it blocks Just slightly. There are other things that block it better, but it it also blocks this enzyme that breaks down dopamine that's quote, unquote extra in your brain. Because My brain thinks, oh, you got extra dopamine. I'm gonna break it down. But, actually, what it doesn't know is I'm short on dopamine.
Melissa:It's malfunctioning literally.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So it's that guy who's getting rid of seats even though we're short on seats. What are you doing? Why are you doing that? Yeah. Bring the seats back, bro.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So when I take Adderall, when I put amphetamine into my brain, it basically convinces my brain to Release more dopamine. That's the simple version. The complicated version is it does all these 3 mechanisms. But it convinces my brain to release more dopamine so that When dopamine is needed, my brain can use it, and I can focus. Executive function can happen.
Melissa:We can make trucks.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And that's how ADHD negatively impacts your brain and how ADHD medications I use specifically amphetamine. Other things will Anything that has a similar structure will do the same thing, basically.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And that's how it corrects the chemical imbalance in your brain.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Man, interesting. That is fascinating.
Melissa:Yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. I was so excited to learn about Why my brain didn't work?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And I was also so excited to learn about how chemistry made it possible for my brain to work.
Jam:Yeah. It's so interesting because I think my assumption before you had said anything would just be I mean, this is What a total layperson would think anyway. So you know? But would just think, okay. You don't have enough of something.
Jam:The pill must just be that thing.
Melissa:That's what I thought too.
Jam:You know? It's like, oh, this is just some dopamine and a pill.
Melissa:That's what I thought.
Jam:Readily available. Maybe there's some really good reason why that wouldn't work, Couldn't work.
Melissa:It's hard to know why you can't just take dopamine pills.
Jam:Yeah. But, who cares? I mean, if it if this works, great.
Melissa:You know?
Jam:But that's it's just cool how you could find ways to get the brain to just do it Yeah. Instead of just introducing it Yes. On its own. Instead of just here's dopamine, it's like, hey, brain. Let's nudge you a lot.
Jam:Help help you do it yourself. So
Melissa:Yeah. You know? And I don't know if this is True. But I feel like even when I haven't actively just taken some of my medicine, like, if I if I wake up this morning and I haven't taken it yet, My symptoms are still less. Even though I haven't taken it since yesterday, like, almost like my brain knows how to Make more of its own dopamine or something now, or there's, like, still a little bit of extra dopamine.
Melissa:Like, I hadn't had Adderall all day And I was at a party, and someone offered me candy. And I was like, that actually doesn't sound good. And it was a candy that I like. Yeah. And I cannot ever remember a time in my life saying that doesn't sound good to me about candy.
Jam:Wow. Yeah.
Melissa:And I hadn't even had Adderall that day. It was like, oh, my brain just knows that. I don't really need that.
Jam:So it's not like there's a crash. It's not like there's, like, a
Melissa:I haven't experienced that.
Jam:Ran out of all of it, and, There's nothing left, and now I'm way back to I'm back to how I felt before I even
Melissa:started. Some people experience that. So I have someone very Close to me, I think they'd be comfortable in the insurance, but just in case, I want that has very severe ADHD. And they got diagnosed in college, and when they got diagnosed, their the doctor the diagnosis said it was the worst case of untreated ADHD he's ever seen in an adult.
Jam:Oh my gosh.
Melissa:And that person does not take medicine because I think their ADHD is so severe that When they take the medicine and then they come back off, they don't have the coping mechanisms. Like, it they describe it as it's like flexing a muscle, And you flex that muscle all day every day because you're used to getting your brain in check. Yeah. And then you don't have to. And it's incredible because you can do anything you want.
Melissa:But when you come down off of that, then
Jam:Super hard.
Melissa:It's really, really hard. And I noticed that a little the few first, like, 2 weeks or so
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Where it felt like When I wasn't on it, it was hard to not interrupt people. I was more forgetful, you know, that kind of stuff. But the longer I've been on it, It actually kinda feels like the opposite is happening where it's a little bit easier now for me to not be on it. And It's like my brain's like, oh, we've done this.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Almost.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:I don't know for sure. That's just kind of how it feels Yeah.
Jam:To me. And I'm sure that yeah. You've already said this a little bit, but, like, personal experience and because Right. You layer on top of it, that that's something your brain has a hard time doing, making enough dopamine.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And having enough available. And you have the specific personality and lifestyle, job, Friendships Yeah. Situation environment that you have, which I'm sure makes it where it varies so much. But Right. It is so interesting to hear Yeah.
Jam:Details about, One, how it works, but also how it's worked specifically for you and that it's that it's been such a good thing is awesome.
Melissa:Right. Well and I think my case is relatively mild, and I think that person's case is very extreme. So I think it just kinda pens, and every person has a choice. Right? But once you know if there's something imbalance in your brain, then you can make decisions to Kind of address that.
Jam:Yeah. Informed decisions. You can either know I'm not crazy. It's actually I mean, it's really there.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:There are options for me. But sometimes I'm sure the people who just even hearing, This is why you feel that way is because your brain's not doing this this the way it it otherwise would.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:That can even on its own be helpful info, I'm sure.
Melissa:Right. And, Jim, you remember, especially, right, probably right around when my mom started to get really sick, I got really forgetful. We would have to Reschedule. I'd have to go back and get something I forgot. I was, like, constantly forgetting little things.
Melissa:Yeah. And I'll get so mad at myself. Like, Why can I not just remember this? Why can't I just get places on time? Like, I would be angry.
Melissa:Like Yeah. Really discouraged, like, feel like a failure. And it's actually not that I'm a failure. It's that my brain literally couldn't executive function. That's why it was so hard for me to do those things because I didn't have The chemicals that my brain needs to do those things well.
Melissa:Yeah. And when I was dealing with everything going on with my mom, I didn't have any space left in my brain to force it to function the way that I normally did.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So I I do think that's also part of it is that sometimes You can just use outside external coping mechanisms, and sometimes those coping mechanisms fall short and you need chemicals in your brain.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So that's just something I've seen in myself.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. So I already gave an analogy. Mhmm. Do you wanna try to say it back to me, come up with your own analogy? What are your thoughts?
Jam:Why don't I I think the analogy makes a lot of sense to me. And so my brain gears weren't turning in a way that made me think. Sometimes the analogies come up naturally for me because my brain's searching for a way to understand it.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:But in this case, I didn't have to. And so Yeah.
Melissa:I I felt like that was the best way because it's like a storage But one, it's, like, made and stored, moves over here, and then also gets taken up. Yeah. You know? That's not that's hard to understand, but
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:The supply chain in our brain relates very closely to the supply chain in real life so that I thought that was the easiest way to
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Paint the picture.
Jam:So maybe I'm gonna just spit it back to you, and that will also give you a chance to point out anything I misunderstood or something like that.
Melissa:Yeah. Perfect.
Jam:In in pretty layperson terms. But, basically, our brains everyone's brain needs needs and is looking for Dopamine on a very regular basis.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Our brain makes dopamine.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And then certain other parts of our brain are looking for it Mhmm. At certain times
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:For a bunch of reasons. It helps us we feel good with dopamine, but also we just need it to have, what you call, executive
Melissa:Executive function.
Jam:Executive function. And so lots of basic functions that help us get through the day, help us work and live and be a human being.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:We need dopamine for that. Right. So there is the sort of 3 main pieces of this is a place that makes dopamine and stores it there too, and then the place that Takes dopamine and kinda puts it where it needs to go, and then the part of the brain that breaks down dopamine that it thinks is not needed.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:So and I forgot the names of those. Vesicular storage pool. And
Melissa:Yeah. One's an enzyme. The one that breaks a down Right.
Jam:Enzyme. It's
Melissa:I think it's actually called monoamine oxidase. So usually, enzymes are named so nicely, like, This is the thing it breaks down, ACE. Yeah. Yeah. So there's that's the one.
Melissa:The other one I think is called, where it's Synthesized and short term sort of stored is cytosol storage, and then there's vesicle or vesicular.
Jam:Vesicular. Okay.
Melissa:And that's the one where it sort of puts it where it needs to go.
Jam:Right. So there's those 3 parts to this. And When there is not enough dopamine available or being made or being sent out, they're all all their jobs get a little complicated and don't serve you as a human being very well.
Melissa:Right. Me, specifically, and everyone who has ADHD. Yeah.
Jam:And so what Adderall amphetamine does Mhmm. Slash amphetamine does is Basically, something specific to each of those areas. Mhmm. It doesn't just kind of do something with one of them. On the side of the dopamine production area or this or the seat factory Right.
Jam:Specifically, it Fills in fake something.
Melissa:Fake dopamine.
Jam:Fake dopamine.
Melissa:Amphetamine is literally fake dopamine.
Jam:Oh, okay. Okay.
Melissa:Amphetamine looks Looks and acts has so much similar in function Yeah. To dopamine that your brain thinks, oh, this is dopamine. There's so much dopamine here.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So it is the fake seats itself, which that is kinda where the consulting thing breakdown because if not, the consulting people made the fake seats. Yeah. Amphetamine is fake Right. Right. Dopamine in a way.
Jam:So on that side, it but it ends up causing that part of the brain Mhmm. To send out real dopamine out into your brain Yep. To be available Mhmm. Which then allows The part of the brain that wants to take it and use it and put it into practice
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:There's more available.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:It also somehow helps that part of the brain to start making its own?
Melissa:It doesn't quite make its own. It Reverses a pump is how you can think of it. So, normally, it's like I did use the analogy making its own for the factory because that was easier Right. Because it kinda breaks down. Right?
Melissa:But Yeah. Yeah. What technically happens is dopamine is being pumped into there to kinda be stored.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:And when it's It feels it's not getting enough dopamine. It will reverse the pump and unstore things.
Jam:Got
Melissa:it. So probably a better way to describe it is reverse the pump. Yeah. So I don't think it's actually synthesizing new dopamine. It's just taking old dopamine that was in there and saying, oh, we need to release this.
Melissa:We're not getting enough. Got it. This pump has There's way less concentration out there than there is in here. I should send out some dopamine.
Jam:Got it. Okay. So it
Melissa:kind of tricks it into reversing its function. So that's kinda where I was like, oh, we're gonna change the function of the truck factory.
Jam:Got it. And then because amphetamine is so similar, It's also able to trick the enzyme Mhmm. And basically stop it from breaking down the real dopamine
Melissa:Right.
Jam:That's there available. So when you combine all those 3 things that amphetamine's doing, it helps there'd be a much more abundant supply of dopamine available Yeah. Be used by your brain to help sort of fuel the executive function Yes. Of your brain day to day life. And did I miss anything important?
Jam:Ma it's it's called mono monoamine.
Melissa:Oxidase. Yeah.
Jam:Yeah. And then That's the enzyme. Right? Yep. And what else?
Jam:Anything else?
Melissa:I think that's it.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:There was an episode of The American Chemical Society puts out these short YouTube videos called reactions. Uh-huh. And they had about a 2 minute video where they talked about this as well, and they described it as It'd be, like, at a middle school dance, your dopamine's on one side of the room and your receptors are on the other. And that amphetamine just comes in and pushes them out onto the dance floor, pushes the dopamine towards receptors, and holds them there longer.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So that is a very simple version of what happens, but we went into all the details of how it happens literally in the brain, which
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Things it's Doing. As
Jam:if it's a supply chain. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. So it pushes it does push it out onto the dance floor, which is where your brain needs it to be able to grab it, and it holds it there longer by not letting the pump Take Yeah. It into long term storage kind of. Yeah. So that's another analogy if that's helpful to you.
Jam:Yes. That is helpful. That's helpful. I like the supply chain one too. That That I think my brain thinks that way, and I think, you know, middle school dances, none of us really wanna go back to that time of our lives.
Jam:So Yeah. No. If you're like me, you'd rather think about trucks and seats and supply chains instead of the horror of of well, I just wanna force you onto the dance floor. You know? That's not fun.
Melissa:No. It's not. Then that makes amphetamine the bad guy, but actually amphetamine is the good guy.
Jam:Yeah. Seriously.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. And I love the idea that it's a consulting firm. Like, hey. I don't actually my brain's this is my brain.
Melissa:Hey. I don't actually know how to work. Can you help me fix this dopamine problem I have? And the Adderall says, yeah. Actually, I've got some ideas.
Melissa:I'm gonna pretend to be dopamine and trick your brain and make this other party brain mad that it's not getting enough because I'm tricking it too, And I'm also gonna cut off this other guy. Like Yeah. Yeah. It is here's our 3 point attack plan. You know?
Melissa:Yeah. I like imagining them that way. So
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And the big thing is because the structure of amphetamine is so similar to the structure of dopamine, that's why it can do all that.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So I'm gonna give you a few bonus things, and then I also wanna talk about how this has impacted my life. Okay. You may have heard of Methamphetamine.
Jam:Yes. I have.
Melissa:It's a drug.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And it's bad for you. And people love to ask me when I tell them that I'm an organic chemist. They say, can you make meth? And I say, Yeah. I could.
Melissa:It's actually pretty easy. That's why people on the street can do it. Yeah. But I can also make life saving medicine. Let's talk about that.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. Methamphetamine is Amphetamine with an extra methyl group. And we've talked about methyl groups before. That's just 1 carbon with 3 hydrogens around it.
Melissa:Mhmm. So that's why it's called methamphetamine. It's the same structure as amphetamine, but it has an extra carbon group. It's different enough that it can Too stimulating.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Which is what people who are using it want. They want to be too stimulated.
Melissa:I don't wanna be too stimulated. I just wanna be able to have enough
Jam:Yeah. It's enough for me just to be stimulated.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. Just like a normal amount. Yeah. So that's interesting, I think.
Melissa:The other interesting thing is actually they used to have ADHD and ADDE. Oh, yeah. They've actually changed that now, and there is all ADHD. Uh-huh. But there's 2 types.
Melissa:There's an inattentive type or hyperactive type.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:I think I presented more as an attentive type.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:I got in trouble a lot for talking in school. Yeah. I didn't always wanna run around and do things.
Jam:Right. For some people, there's a physical element of Needing. Needing.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Yeah. To to yeah. Go ahead. So you're saying, I think.
Melissa:So if you are someone who thinks, oh, I don't think I have ADHD bees, I don't wanna, like, run around all the time. Well, neither do I. Yeah. I do fidget a lot, and that actually is part of that hyperactivity needing to, you know, get out. So I, like, pop my toes constantly.
Melissa:My brother thinks It's disgusting. So there's just, like, things like that that are ways that I'm sort of stimulating myself, but that people don't see as hyperactive necessarily. And, also, there's a lot of interruptions that you you can accidentally interrupt people, and sometimes they do that on this Podcasts have to work really hard not to interrupt when you're talking. It's
Jam:okay. I don't mind.
Melissa:So I think that's some other ways that it plays out as an inattentive type that people often let go unnoticed.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And often, also, it goes undiagnosed in women than men. So A good friend of mine, I'm actually gonna shout her out because I think she would love for me to talk about this. Her name is doctor Katie Quotes on the show before.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Katie was the person who told me one of the first people told me she thought I should get tested because she had gotten tested. She told me, actually, initially, she got tested and it came back negative, and then she got reevaluated by someone else. And they said the reason it came back is you're not having ADHD is because Those tests are designed mostly for elementary school boys who are very hyperactive and can't focus even when someone's paying attention to you. But if you're someone who's high functioning, who's an adult, and if someone's sitting there watching you work, you can take a whole test, and you won't present as being ADHD because you have accountability or, you know, there's, like, a consequence. So I thought that was really, really interesting as well.
Jam:And as the point of being an adult, you have you have found some ways to cope Right. That a child would not have yet
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:In a lot of ways. So it might be super different, super different way of having to to find it and point it out.
Melissa:And that is something I wanna talk about. I mentioned I have clearly pretty good coping mechanisms. I was developing them, I think, in high school and college.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:I did struggle, though. I joke about not being a good student in college, but actually, I was a fine student. I just was untreated ADHD. Yeah. So I Learned a lot of coping mechanisms to where I could really get my work done in a pretty efficient way as an adult in grad school.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And so people are very surprised when I tell them that I have ADHD because I'm so high functioning.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But they don't know those little struggles that Happened day to day, and I think I had very good coping mechanisms. I make lists. I have accountability. I can get myself dopamine by listening to podcasts at the same time as I'm doing other work. But when my mom died, COVID hit.
Melissa:I remember saying, it feels like my brain has changed, and I can't make it work anymore. And I think what happened is that the coping mechanisms that I had developed had begun to fail because I was so overwhelmed. I think that happens with some other people who make it into adulthood without getting diagnosed, and then a major life event happens, and They just start start to really struggle. And I had enough interest in my work and Enough accountability that I I was doing fine. Even with it feeling like it was really hard, I could still get enough done.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But, But, you know, my dissertation was due. And this past March, I I started to really go into a dark place, and I was so anxious all the time. I had like, my stomach would burn. It's kinda like heartburn, but it's, like, actually in your stomach. It's called indigestion rather than it being in your esophagus.
Melissa:Yeah. So I had a ton of indigestion. I was so, so forgetful. One time, my husband and I were trying to go visit his family, and I had to go back upstairs to make sure I locked the door, like, 4 times in our apartment. Like, things were getting really bad, and it got to the point where I was crying every day multiple times a day because I didn't know how I could get all my Done.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And I don't think that came through very much on the podcast because I love this podcast. Yeah. And so I would be happy when I could see Jam and and we could talk, But I was really in a dark space. And part of it was I would have all this work, and I would set aside time to do it. And then I would sit down to do it, and I just couldn't.
Melissa:Yeah. And I didn't know what was wrong with me, and I felt like I was a failure. And, really, what it was is that I just didn't have the dopamine to make my brain do what it needed to do. Yeah. And I remember I got a piece of paper from my boss.
Melissa:I was like, here's here's the quantitative analysis plan that we have. And I remember thinking, like, I don't understand any of this. I'm just crying because I didn't understand any of it. And that was the week I'd actually made an appointment to get tested. And I got the medication, and I The next time I sat down to work on that, not only did I understand it all, but I also was able to work through everything and do all the analyses that we discussed in, like, 4 hours.
Jam:Nice. Nice.
Melissa:And so that's the difference. Right? Like, my stomach was almost immediately settled because so much of my stress and Anxiety was from not being able to make my brain do what it needed to do. My forgetfulness has significantly decreased my ability to do administrative tasks. One time I left my driver's license renewal for 8 months because it just seemed too hard Uh-huh.
Melissa:To do it. You know? Like, those things were just really, really hard for me. Yeah. And having this medication has not only helped me do my work, but so much also in my real life.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And I think that we don't talk about that in academia very much. We sort of pretend like academia happens at a vacuum. You're either good at it or you're not. You show up. You do your work.
Melissa:You get it all done, and then you're done in, You know, 3 to 5 years with a PhD. Yeah. But that just hasn't been my experience. And I guess I just wanted to take this opportunity to talk about how much mental health can affect you. Yeah.
Melissa:And, Jim, you're around. You saw how dark of a place I was in. Yeah. And you talked about how different it seems now that I have that I'm being treated for this.
Jam:I really could tell, like, from the first time that you I think there are a couple times that we hung out after you've been diagnosed, but you hadn't gotten in the groove of taking your medicine quite yet. Right. Then one time we hung out, and you were like, yeah. I've been taking or whatever. It just I could just kinda tell a difference immediately.
Jam:And it wasn't like, oh, she's smiling more or something like that that basic. It was more about, sort of deeper level functioning seeming more settled.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:The the sort of turmoil of the churning storm of an ocean in your Brain seemed much more, at, calm. I don't know how
Melissa:how
Jam:to put that in a better way.
Melissa:But yeah. That's a I felt Empty, and I I constantly felt like I was at the end of my rope. People would be like, how are you doing? And I'd say, I feel like an empty shell of a human being, and they would laugh, But I missed that that was how I felt.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And I do think the frazzledness, the feeling like I'm never gonna be able to get my work done. I'm such a failure. Like, All of those things. I at the same time, I started taking anxiety medication, but that medication was supposed to take about 4 months or 4 weeks to kick in, about a month. I immediately felt relief of anxiety.
Melissa:So much of my depression and anxiety symptoms actually were coming from my ADHD.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:And so I wanted to address this because I don't think it's talked about in academia. I think there's actually a stigma for being Treated for things that Yeah. With chemicals. Like, oh, if your brain can't make the chemicals and you have to go buy chemicals to help your brain work, that that's bad. But it's I cannot communicate how much has changed my life.
Melissa:And I also think about if I'd had this for the 7 years. I was in a High pressure environment where my brain needed to be optimally functioning, and I didn't have it. Yeah. And if there had been less of a stigma or if we knew more about what those symptoms actually look like other than the just getting distracted there. Yeah.
Melissa:I think it would have been really different. And I I was telling my husband, it kinda feels like I looked back over the last 7 years and realized I've been running a marathon, and I've been holding a 10 pound weight that I didn't need to. Yeah. I've been carrying this thing that I I could have sat down, and I just didn't know that I could. Yeah.
Melissa:And so I just really wanna encourage to all of our listeners or anyone who maybe thinks that they've got something going on, whether it's ADHD, anxiety, depression that you address that and don't put it off because I just can't think about how much less of a dark place I would have gone to if I'd gotten help sooner.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And I first thought I might have it. A lot of people started telling me For the 1st time in August and September, I have a coworker, doctor Carlos. We've heard Mhmm. About them. And just people would start to say things, and I think it's Because a lot of my coping mechanisms had gone down, and that was the 1st time we were together after the pandemic Right.
Melissa:That people started to see things and say, oh, I think you might have this. I'd I've been told it, like, 6 times in over the last semester from different people and serious conversations, not casual conversations. And I still put off going to the doctor until March because I There's so much stigma. I didn't have the right health insurance, this, that, the other. And I just am so I just think so much How much I could have not been in a dark place
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:If I had responded sooner.
Jam:Totally. And it's so hard too because I think what's what's interesting is, like, I was thinking why you're speaking about how I've known you for a long time.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And the way you just described all that stuff about you and about how hard this season has been the past 7 years have been.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:What's so tough is I think when we are the people that are in your personal life who have been for a long time, I think start to just associate that with your personality
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Which they're they're a little mixed, so it's hard to probably draw a straight line
Melissa:between them.
Jam:But Those things are things I think I often just thought, oh, that's what Melissa's like.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:She's not the best at remembering stuff. So I'm just not going to be that mad about it when she forgets something. And maybe if I think of it, I'll run her. You know? Not not the worst thing.
Jam:That's
Melissa:that's true. Dopamine helped my dopamine absence a lot.
Jam:Yeah. And that there are people like that, so it's not always like ADHD is the only option. But I think that's what's probably another hard element of it being diagnosed is lot of people around you love you, who've been your friends for a long time. Probably, last thing on their mind that something is Not right
Melissa:Right.
Jam:In some ways, and they'd rather just think, no. No. This is how she is.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:I don't wanna say or think even that something might be A miss, or not working correctly with my friend's, dopamine or whatever.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:That's most of us wouldn't have even occurred to us.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And with kids, maybe that's a different thing. That's why it gets diagnosed more easily.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:But adults, I think we we
Melissa:Right.
Jam:It just from my, you know, subjective experience, I just would not think to be, like, trying to diagnose people with stuff. Yeah. Very often, I would just think that's every different. You know, that's there's tons of variety there, and it probably would have been been helpful for Some other people to have caught this and been able to direct you sooner instead of just assuming all of it was your personality.
Melissa:Yeah. So I and I think that's probably part of it is after the pandemic has started working with people that I hadn't worked with before. So my coworker, doctor Corrales, they also have ADHD, And they often said, your brain and mine work the same. I think you need to go get tested. Yeah.
Melissa:That's helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And they didn't know me before, and they knew the symptoms. So, actually, I know Several of my friends who I think they have it, and some of them I lived with, and so I would some of them I know have it that I lived with too.
Melissa:Mhmm. And so we kind of all thought it was normal. This is normal. And then I moved in with my husband who definitely does not have ADHD. I mean, he's the Opposite of all these things in me.
Jam:He's got all the dopamine he could ever need.
Melissa:Yeah. He can just do one thing at a time. I I That's when I knew that that something was different. Yeah. With my brain, that was part of it too, is living with someone who was so Not ADHD.
Melissa:That then I thought, I don't think it has to be as hard as it it's been for me. Mhmm. But I had a I have I happen to have a lot of friends who also have ADHD. And so when I lived with those roommates, I didn't know. Yeah.
Melissa:I thought this is normal. Right. So I I think that's part of it too is being in different environments with people who are experiencing you differently, and they have experienced being diagnosed or whatever.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:I think that was big a big thing, but, also, I've lived with myself my whole life. So I know people who have ADHD that were much more severe cases, which is why I got caught so early on.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And that's to me, I thought, I don't have that because I Didn't get diagnosed. Like, I don't have the same symptoms they do. Yeah. And, also, women, oftentimes, it gets they have more of the inattentive type, so it just gets cut off as like, oh, they're absent minded.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Oh, they're chatty. Mhmm. That's why they talk a lot in class because they just are social butterflies. Girls love to chat, and that's how it manifests a lot. Right.
Melissa:And so that gets written off. They still can do well in school because they're driven by the their interest or their fear of failure or whatever it is, so they can still finish, but it's really Like, I could get good grades, but it was always procrastination doing it at the last minute, rushing, rushing to get it done. And then I'm like, what What if they had done it sooner? You know?
Jam:And it probably doesn't cause quite as much of it, depending on the age group.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:A problem for everybody else
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:In some way. So if you got a kid who's literally running circles around the classroom Mhmm. It's like,
Melissa:okay.
Jam:Let's stop that for so that all of us Yes. Can learn for a second. But just so and so talking to their buddy next to them a little bit more, that doesn't seem like
Melissa:Like a symptom.
Jam:Right. It it would
Melissa:It is. Yeah.
Jam:It seems like, of course, they would've talked. You know? They wouldn't yeah, that's it makes sense even though it's unfortunate.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:It makes sense that one type gets diagnosed and noticed way more often Because it's it rears its head so much more strongly. Yeah. But that's really unfortunate.
Melissa:So, yeah, I guess I just wanted to be vulnerable about that. I wanted to do some work to destigmatize that a little bit. You know? And I also really just wanted to share my experience. And, again, I spend so much of my life talking about how chemistry can help us.
Melissa:And in this way, chemistry is Truly making my brain work well, and scientists have literally figured out how to optimize chemicals to make the chemical funk function of my brain better.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And so
Jam:That's incredible.
Melissa:Yeah. It's just really, really incredible. And, also, I think there's just so many people in academia. Academia attracts people with ADHD, I think, because it's A flexible schedule, and your work is changing a lot. And there's there's accountability.
Melissa:You have grades. You have this. You have that to push you towards What you wanna do, you're interested in the subject, and that's really important for people who have ADHD. Yeah. So if, you know, that's you.
Melissa:A lot of our listeners I know are in STEM fields or who love academia. Please, if you feel some of these things, Consider getting tested because it it has really changed my life so significantly for the better. Not just because I can remember things, but because I feel like I can literally function. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess I just I really wanted to share about that, the chemistry of it, and then also, I really wanna use this platform to help improve people's lives and make them not scared of how chemistry can help them.
Melissa:So
Jam:And with your example too, it's, I think seems obvious that it's the risks are come to a low of getting tested. Right. Potential benefit's pretty high. So maybe you don't have it. Maybe you just have what everyone has if they're in academia.
Jam:You Random listener out there, where it's just hard and it's crazy and it's just a tough time of your life, whatever.
Melissa:It is too. Yeah.
Jam:But if there's a chance that you Our carrying 10 pound weight on this marathon, it might be worth it for someone to check that out and tell you that because that would be pretty nice. It'd be pretty some pretty nice relief. Yeah. To have that removed. So that's what I think seems, like a pretty obvious and very helpful thing about hearing your story
Melissa:Right.
Jam:For sure.
Melissa:Well and my coworker, doctor Krauss, also was in organic chemistry and I think got a master's in organic chemistry too. And we both said to each other, do you ever think about if we would still have stayed in the organic chemistry lab if we'd been treated back then? Like, we wouldn't do anything different. We love our our lives and our research, obviously, but But I wonder if we'd been treated if we would have stayed in that field.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And, also, I saw a Reddit post where said, is there such thing as a high functioning person with ADHD? And I know so many people who were deep into their PhDs, finish their PhDs or just months away from their dissertation being due. So many people. Now that it's happened to me, I can think of 5 people right now
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:That have PhDs or were, like, right at the edge of their PhD when they got diagnosed. Actually, 6, 7. So that's a lot. Right? And so There you can be very high functioning and still benefit from this.
Melissa:Right? I I have a master's degree in organic chemistry. That's hard. Yeah. And I'm, like, minutes away from a doctoral degree when I was 2 months away when I got diagnosed.
Melissa:Yeah. So You can be very high functioning and still benefit from intervention, especially if external factors are gonna make it more difficult for you to function optimally. Yeah. Okay. I'll get off my soapbox now.
Melissa:I know this is a longer episode than normal, but I always try to use this platform to talk about issues in academia. And I definitely think that Destigmatizing, getting help for mental health is really important, and I think there are a lot of people in our field who would benefit from hearing this.
Jam:Yeah. A 100%. That was really helpful to hear about and then really important to to share about for for the topic of this podcast, the type of audience. We know you guys, a lot of y'all benefit from hearing about stuff that's specific to academia, but some of you guys aren't in academia, but it could still benefit you too.
Melissa:So Definitely.
Jam:So instead of just instead of sharing a highlight from our weeks this week, we'll just have it devoted this time that you guys have just listened to. Then Melissa got to share more about her ADHD Diagnosis and story and stuff, we'll let that be our highlight of the week kind of stuff.
Melissa:Huge highlight. Yeah.
Jam:Huge highlight. I'm not gonna try to follow that. So Let's just leave it there and and transition into wrapping up, and you guys will get to hear highlights of our week at the next episode.
Melissa:Definitely. Thank you so much, Jim, for letting me, take the time to talk about that and for learning about how amphetamine and ADHD work. And thank you so much to all of you listeners. I I know I talk a lot about how much it means to me, but truly in the depths of my despair, this podcast Still brought me light. When I was struggling so deeply and felt like I was a shell of a person, I was still happy to come here and record with Jam and know that you guys were learning chemistry and having fun doing it.
Melissa:So thank you guys so much for giving us the opportunity to have this platform.
Jam:Day for teaching us. Thanks for, 1, suffering through when it was really hard and still sharing with us and having episodes regularly. And we are all very glad that are different now and that you've turned a corner and that you've gotten assistance and your brain has the help it needs. That's awesome. If you out there have questions or ideas about Topics that could be chemistry related, a question in your daily life that you're like, This might be a chemistry.
Jam:Please reach out to us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at Chem for your life. That's chem, f o r, your life to share your thoughts and ideas. If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, Go to kodashfi.com/chem for your life or tap the link in our show notes to donate the cost of a cup of coffee. If you're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing to your favorite podcast app and rating and writing our review on Apple Podcasts. That also helps us to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of Chemistry For Your Life is created by Melissa Collini and Jam Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jim Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to a
