How are tattoos removed?
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Okay. So are you ready for part 2?
Jam:Part
Melissa:Oh, wait.
Jam:Part tattoo. You have
Melissa:a look on your face, and I was like, did I forget something? No. You're just preparing to make a dumb joke.
Jam:I was just looking for a chance.
Melissa:I apologize in advance if I seem to have the sleepy time sillies. We're yet again doing a late night recording session, And I'm fading fast.
Jam:Chemistry at night.
Melissa:Chemistry after dark.
Jam:It gets a little spookier.
Melissa:And it is kind of, you know, It's an adult topic. Tattoos are for adults.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Tattoos are for grown ups. Chemistry after 18. Yeah. Well, today, we're gonna talk about how to get rid of tattoos.
Jam:Nice. Which was the original question?
Melissa:That was the original question. So we're Actually going to get to listener Kate's question today, which was how does tattoo removal work? Right. But we really did have to know how they got into our skin first because it matters So much. They're very much related because of how the getting rid of them process works.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:So if you didn't get a chance to listen to that episode, we released it 2 weeks ago. It's about how tattoos get into our skin and why they stay there for a long time. But for today, we're gonna talk about how we get rid of tattoos, how tattoo removal works. So this is one of those questions. I feel like it comes up a lot where there's a really Simple answer, but then it's actually a lot more complicated if you dig into the chemistry of it.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So I'm gonna tell you the very simple idea, and then we're gonna Dig in.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Okay.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:Me like simple.
Melissa:Hey. Simple is good. Yeah. I like a Simple, effective design of things.
Jam:You know? Yes.
Melissa:So the simple explanation, the simple effective explanation is essentially laser tattoo removal. I'm focusing on laser tattoo because that's really the gold standard. Other ones are pretty unsafe. So laser tattoo removal Works by targeting the pigment, breaking that pigment down into smaller pieces because remember the macrophages weren't able to get rid of it because it was Too large?
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So it breaks the pigment down into smaller pieces, and then the immune system is able to do its work. The macrophage is able to Carry carry away the particles that they perceive to be invaders and take them to the lymphatic System where they can be removed as they're seen as a threat, so they're removed from your body.
Jam:Oh, wow.
Melissa:So your immune system is protecting you.
Jam:Dang. Interesting. It's just changing that one thing Mhmm. That is a huge deal for, Well, you know, why they're able to stay in place, why our body lets them be. Yes.
Jam:Just changing their size of the particles is pretty much all it needs to do.
Melissa:That's it.
Jam:Wow. Dang. I did not expect that. Not that I really knew what to expect anywhere because It's I
Melissa:should have asked you that at the beginning if you had any thoughts.
Jam:Yeah. I don't know what I would've said, honestly. I would have been like, I mean, lasers are epic. And so when something encounters a laser, what choice does it have but to But to go away. Yes.
Melissa:Well, that's a great segue actually because that answers our question is essentially, it just makes the Sizes of the particle manageable for the immune system to get rid of them the way it's always wanted to from the very beginning. But it doesn't answer a lot of other questions like, Why does a laser break down the pigment to smaller sizes? Yeah. How does it target the individual pigments and not the rest of your skin? And, honestly, what even is a LASER?
Jam:Right. And that did you know that LASER is an acronym? But I don't know what it's
Melissa:for. More.
Jam:Well
Melissa:It actually has been introduced as a real word into the dictionary, nonacronym style.
Jam:Yeah. That never means anything, Unfortunately. It's like
Melissa:Jim just said it doesn't mean anything.
Jam:Watch me, like, the whole, like, it's in the dictionary now. It's like, okay. Like, that doesn't mean what it once did. I don't know if it ever meant anything. But anyway But
Melissa:now it is it is the word laser is in now and used to describe the thing that the Acronym used to stand for.
Jam:Got it. Got it. So Do are lasers still accurately described by whatever the acronym is?
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Okay. So it's not like lasers are different than they were.
Melissa:No. Lasers are the same. They just decided to because it was used so commonly. Yeah. To just switch it into okay.
Melissa:That's the word it is now, and we don't need to put l dot a dot a. That's s dot or whatever.
Jam:That's true. I am glad we don't have to do that. So I'll give I'll give the dictionary that.
Melissa:So I am gonna say You kinda jumped the gun because I was gonna start with, what is a laser? The word laser started life as an acronym for light amplification. So Light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation. So that's Wow. A lot to say, and it doesn't really mean very much to you right now.
Melissa:But I'm gonna explain what A laser is, and then we'll go back.
Jam:Okay. I did only know the acronym. It's just a cool bit of trivia that I have just had in my head somewhere and never Knew what it stood for. So Oh.
Melissa:I didn't Now you know.
Jam:So now I know. But, yeah, I didn't really dump the gun because I didn't actually know anything. I knew the absolute minimum that makes people wear their eyebrows for, like, half a second at a party. You know?
Melissa:Well, you just did enough to transition into the next phase, so that was kinda good.
Jam:Nice. Nice.
Melissa:Okay. So this gets into light and the movement of light, but essentially, what a laser is It's complicated, so I'm gonna boil it down to the most simple way I can describe it in a bite sized episode.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So typically, outside of lasers, things are constantly absorbing and then reemitting light.
Jam:K.
Melissa:And they typically do so by taking in a photon. Electrons get excited. So they absorb the photon, the electrons get excited. It has to be just the right amount energy for the electrons to be excited, and then they relax back down at some point and give light back off in the form of a photon. So photon is essentially just light particles
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:In a specific packet of energy, kind of.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So that normally happens randomly. And I think that this is really better described with analogy, so I'm going to do the thing I've been doing lately where I Scoop you. And I talked to my husband to try to sort of workshop an analogy, and he came up with a really good one, which was, Normally, light behaves like pool balls when you hit them on the brake, and they're all going everywhere.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:There's just photons being released in just any which way, and it's not a lot of control. Lights just coming in and going back out. It Sort of does so randomly.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So what lasers actually do is they control the emission of light. Okay. So this controlled emission of light is called stimulated emission.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So they do something that forces light to be emitted in the exact way that they want it to be emitted.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So the way this works is if you have a molecule that has already absorbed energy and so the electrons are excited, so that Just means basically that they have extra energy in them. They're not just at the lowest level of energy. They're a little bit more high energy. Literally, they're excited just like when you're excited and your energy's a little bit higher.
Jam:K. Right.
Melissa:If at the moment when it's electrons are still excited, You shoot another photon at the exact right frequency right at that substance, whatever it is that its electrons are excited. It is forced that substance is forced to emit a photon. It's the reverse of absorbing energy. It will immediately Relax back down to the ground state emitting a photon. And so it's almost as if you shot 1 photon at the molecule and then Another one came out at the same time, and now you have 2 that are exactly the same traveling in the same direction, that are at the same wavelength.
Melissa:They're doing the same thing.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And that's what a laser is.
Jam:Woah.
Melissa:And, the analogy for that going back to the pool balls is sometimes, you know, you have the break where they're going all every which way, and sometimes you want the ball to move in a very controlled way. So you use The is that called a scratch ball? What is that ball called?
Jam:Q ball?
Melissa:The Q ball. The the all white one that you use to hit other balls. The photon that they shoot at the molecule is basically like the cue ball.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So the cue ball goes and hits the other molecule whose electrons are already excited. And this is where the analogy breaks down, but imagine then you had 2 cue balls coming out and moving in the same way in the same direction.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Okay.
Melissa:It kinda breaks down there because And cue the cue ball would stop, and the other ball moves. And it's not quite like that. It seems like both photons are still moving. The one that gets emitted and the one that you shot out at the first place.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:That's why it's called stimulated emission is because the environment is set up to stimulate the emission happening exactly the way that scientists or whoever controlling the laser wants the emission to occur. Okay. Meaning that they can Amplify the light, they can control the light. They can make sure that the direction of the light is all uniform, that the color, the wavelength, everything of the light is all uniform. K.
Melissa:So, essentially, they can make a perfect stream of exactly the same photons or light molecules that come out in this really concentrated way, and that's what a laser is.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:And that means that they're very versatile. Yeah. Because you can have all different kinds of lasers that function by the same property that have different wavelengths, different, You know? Different energies, different colors, like, the all kinds I guess, different wavelengths and different colors is the same thing, but they can make lasers do all kinds of stuff.
Jam:Yeah. Dang. That is so weird.
Melissa:I know. It's basically just a really controlled stream of light.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. When you put it that way, that makes sense. And not and even the pool ball thing is super helpful Yes. For me.
Jam:But it's still like, put the But this yeah. I mean, for most of us think thinking about light as these as photons is so weird.
Melissa:Well and that's also not exactly Right? We mentioned this, while ago, but light has sort of what they call a dual nature
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Where it acts Sometimes like a particle in classical physics, and it sometimes acts like a wave. So that's kinda weird.
Jam:Yeah. That's like, once again, light Seems to, like, defy our understanding.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:It's like the everyday person that understanding of any of this stuff is like it's just so oh, man. It's so hard.
Melissa:I got a bee in the class that talks all about that, about the movement of light and electrons. It was, quantum Wait. Is it quantum mechanics? It's physical chemistry, but they're they kinda break it up into the chemistry of heat and then the chemistry of the Math, like the physical movement of the particles and the photons.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And it's very confusing, and I Have never worked so hard in my life to get a b. Like, I took off 2 weeks of work So that I could sit outside my professor's office and ask questions every single day. Yeah. And I gotta be, and I was so proud because I had I had to work So hard to just keep up with what was happening in that class.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So all that to say, light is Really weird.
Jam:Yeah. Dana is so crazy.
Melissa:And I didn't I read I pulled up a textbook about lasers and read about this idea of The random emission is called spontaneous emission. So the way it normally happens, it just kinda happens on its own. You don't need to put GN to make it happen. That's called spontaneous emission. Yeah.
Melissa:And then this, the controlled kind is again called stimulated emission. And so I looked it up and I read all this stuff, and I was like, yeah. But why doesn't the photon being shot at it stimulate it to emit another Photon.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It's not as if 1 photon comes in and the other one goes out, and another photon comes in and the other one goes out. That was not my interpretation of what was happening. It seemed like the photon they shot at it kept going and was just joined by another one. Yeah. Weird.
Melissa:Right?
Jam:That is so weird.
Melissa:And then I also didn't quite understand how they then reexcited the molecules of the thing that they were the light out. So I had a lot of questions still.
Jam:Yes. And I
Melissa:think that goes to show that lasers are complicated. Mhmm. I know there are chemists who work with lasers. That's what their research and there's actually someone like that at UNT. I wasn't able to get ahold of them, but there's a lot of people who use lasers in their research.
Melissa:So if anyone Wants to answer these questions for us. We'd love to learn about it. But the basic idea is, I think, solid enough for us to be tracking with that essentially They can use the introduction of another photon to stimulate the emission of a of multiple photons. So Yeah. Multiple photons come out in a very controlled way.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:Another analogy that I appreciated that my husband came up with was Random emission, the spontaneous emission is like a bomb. Uh-huh. And stimulated emission is like an explosion that happens in a gun Oh, yeah. Where it's really controlled. Trolled?
Jam:That's really good. That helps a lot.
Melissa:Yeah. It doesn't quite get the photon.
Jam:Right. But it gets to, like, Useful in a different way kind of thing. It's like Yeah. Obviously, light's cool and useful, but, like, if you focused it In a very concentrated thing, there's a
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Different effect.
Melissa:A different effect. Yes. Exactly.
Jam:Yeah. That's interesting.
Melissa:And that's what a laser is. A laser is the gun of the light world.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Well, dang. Mason's kind of Doing both our jobs a little bit.
Melissa:I know. Sort of.
Jam:You know?
Melissa:He did say, take that jam. And when they realized that, that's a good one.
Jam:Somehow, I believe that no matter what the words were that came out of his mouth when he said that, that somehow it still wasn't in no way mean spirited.
Melissa:No. It was good natured For sure.
Jam:And that there was a twinkle in his eye. I just
Melissa:There was. Yeah.
Jam:Can't imagine there being any even that he could pretend to be actually mean.
Melissa:Yeah. I know that he doesn't. He says sneakily mean things, but he says them in such a nice way that he can't be mad about it.
Jam:Yeah. You're like, there's no way I could have taking that to be mean even though all the words you said are mean. It's just there's no way that that was how you meant it. When we first portrays all of your you know?
Melissa:When we first started dating, I thought maybe he's too nice. Like, can he keep up with, you know, the the mean jokes I sometimes make or whatever. You know? Uh-huh. And then we were driving Home one day, I said, oh, you can just turn right here.
Melissa:And he said, oh, you mean the direction my blinker is pointing? And he said it so, like, lightheartedly and jokingly. It was clearly not mean spirited, but it also was like, he got me. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So that was when I knew that Mason's funny, and also he's, like, sneakily mean. Yeah. He can keep up. He doesn't mean it, but he can say it. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:That's good.
Melissa:He could just roast us all, and we'd all just, like, laugh along.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:Yes. Okay. Anyway, so good job, Mason, for taking both of our jobs and doing a really good job of explaining how lasers are the guns of the light world.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:So with that in mind, let's get back our original question, which was why do we even learn about lasers. You know? Mhmm. It was so that we could talk about how lasers can remove tattoos for us. Right.
Jam:So, like, when now that we have these photons that are going in a direction and are controlled and concentrated and whatever else. But how does it break up the pigment?
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. That's it. And it's actually very similar to Well, we talked about in how the UV rays from the sun, how why things fade in the sun because UV rays put energy into it.
Jam:Oh, yes.
Melissa:And at some point, they just start to break down because they have so much energy put into it that that it breaks the bonds instead of just Exciting electrons.
Jam:Okay. Right. Right.
Melissa:It's that same idea. So the exact mechanism by which the lasers Actually break down the molecules isn't very clear. There's a few different ideas that, the of the actual mechanics of it. But the basic idea is that they select a laser which will have the proper wavelength, And wavelength, remember, sort of is correlated to color.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:We've talked about that in previous, previous molecules. Previous episodes, especially the one where we asked how bleach removes color Uh-huh. So if you have a laser that's at the right wavelength that matches that color so that that color pigment can absorb that light, then you can target only that color.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:K. And your skin isn't that color. Oh. So you can shine the laser on your skin, and it will target that color and put enough energy in to eventually break the color down.
Jam:Got it. Okay.
Melissa:Now what's interesting is initially the types of lasers they used were, like, solid lasers. There was no pulsing or anything.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And that would do the same thing, but the molecules in the pigments would get so hot that it would actually damage the skin around them.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So they've switched to using primarily pulsing light. It's called QS or quality switching, but basically, it pulses really quickly, Fast enough that the electrons don't have time to relax all the way back down, but that it's not going to significantly damage the skin.
Jam:Got it. Yeah.
Melissa:Isn't that cool?
Jam:That's crazy, dude. I just didn't I would never have even thought that the wavelength would have anything to do with that. Like, I couldn't even get far enough into realizing what the lasers were Yeah. Doing the 1st place.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Let alone that the wavelength would have a really different impact on what it Does what it can, like
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Remove and How
Melissa:it does not hurt your skin for the most part nowadays?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Dang, dude. That's so nuts.
Melissa:So I tried to sort of take it down to the really smallest pieces possible. But, essentially, the way laser tattoo removals work is they pick a laser, which is a concentrated beam of light Mhmm. And they set that laser to pulse, And they pick the wavelength that corresponds to whatever color the pigment they're trying to get rid of is. Mhmm. And they will send that impulses, so it starts to put energy into those pigments, which will then Break down the molecules immediately changing the color because if bonds break, then color changes.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:But then also So your macrophages, your immune system are able to come and get rid of these particles, which they have always been tagged as invaders, but now they're just small enough to get rid of.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:And that's how tattoo removal works.
Jam:Wow. Dude, that is so cool and way crazier than expected.
Melissa:Isn't that amazing?
Jam:Yeah. Did any of the resources you found talk about how long it takes for army system to kinda take away those particles of and those so that, like, kinda looks
Melissa:I don't
Jam:think so.
Melissa:So. K. I don't think so, but they did talk about the different types of lasers that they have
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And how some won't hurt the skin relief but they can lead to hyperpigmentation.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And they're not really clear on why. So that basically means there'll be a patch of your skin that has the wrong coloration than the rest of it. Okay. In response to probably to what happened with the laser. And that can happen.
Melissa:Hyperpigmentation can happen as a result of scarring and a lot of different things.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:They also talked about there's different lasers that will target different colors, But I didn't see them talk about that. So but I did think this was really interesting.
Jam:K.
Melissa:There's ruby, which is red lasers that are ideal for targeting red ink
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Which would likely be because of the wavelength that the ruby is able to get excited to, that that wavelength That of the photon that's being emitted Mhmm. And absorbed is likely in the red region of wavelength.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And then, also, my wedding ring is made out of the stone Alexandrite Uh-huh. Which is kind of a bluish green color, and it kinda can look different in different Lights. It kind of will absorb different lights in different settings.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And that's ideal for removing those Shades of pigment. And so and then there's a different kind totally that's really good at removing that as the proper wavelengths to get rid of Black and dark blue inks to target them most efficiently. So they're starting to use techniques where they use different lasers to to target different colors to break it down more efficiently.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But they didn't talk about how long. They they did talk about how as a result of using those lasers, very immediately, the color changes. Yeah. And I think Starts to be gone because they're breaking up these molecules, but then also the macrophages will come and take it away.
Jam:Yeah. Dang. That's crazy, dude.
Melissa:I know. Also, what happens once the macrophages take it away? I don't know. I don't know anything about the immune system.
Jam:That's for other other scientists to know.
Melissa:Yeah. That's maybe we can get your wife in here. Hey. How how does the immune system work? Yeah.
Jam:She'll be able to tell us generally, but she's in pediatrics. So she'd be like, but most of the kids that I Treat. Have not had tattoos removed where I could tell you exactly what's happening in the lymphatic system, but here's a general set. So you should probably you should probably give us a really general, like, How it's supposed to work in most cases or whatever.
Melissa:So aside from me not knowing how the immune system works, that is how tattoo removal works.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:So I'm wondering, Jim, if you wanna I've already stolen your job. Mason really stole your job.
Jam:Yes. Once again, I'm giving it, but I'm also it ended up being that I'm just basically sort of given a little bit easier Yeah.
Melissa:Situation. You're just doing a light summary of what we've gone over.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So do you wanna go ahead and try to do that?
Jam:Yes. I would love to. So here's the thing about tattoos that we talked about last time is that they are Large particles, large molecules of pigment In our skin, trapped there, allowed to remain because our immune system cannot do anything about it. It's too big.
Melissa:Yep. Just contained.
Jam:They're contained. Of quarantined, if you will. And if only we could find a way To make those modules be smaller. Right?
Melissa:Well, depending on if you want them gone or not.
Jam:Right. In the case of removal in the case of removal, we could just make them smaller.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Then our body would our bodies would do a big chunk of the work they already wanna do anyway.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Remove anything that seems like it shouldn't be there. And so amazingly and crazily and bewilderingly, lasers 1st onto the scene.
Melissa:Literally, the light bursts out.
Jam:And this is, like, one of the areas that man, it is hard. And if we do something that has been about light, I always feel like I have such a hard time
Melissa:You know what? Explaining that. Me too, actually.
Jam:Yeah. So the the lasers are even if it's a little hard to understand, Basically, they work to all light is photons Mhmm. Going in directions, Typically, in a
Melissa:All over the place.
Jam:All over the place kinda way. We shine a flashlight, and it kinda goes everywhere, Sort of.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:In a general direction, but it spreads out.
Melissa:Spreads out.
Jam:Yeah. Before we turn on a light above us, and it sort of seems to, like, Filled the room. Yes. Bounced off the walls a little bit. I'll come
Melissa:and stuff. The whole room. Yeah. Definitely. Because it's sort of it's lighting things up, and they're absorbing the light, And then they're emitting the light, and then that light is going in every different direction.
Melissa:They call that incidental photons. They just kind of happen randomly.
Jam:And then but in order to really harness the just the raw power that are that is photons. The energy there and make it be concentrated enough and high enough Mhmm. And, yeah, directed enough that it could do something, They have to stimulate this the emission of photons Mhmm. In a way that is controlled
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:By firing photons at things and getting it to release photons.
Melissa:Yes. So at, molecules or atoms, I guess
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:That already have electrons in the excited state. So they they sort of already are holding on to energy.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:And then the new photon comes along and forces them to release that. Maybe it's a maybe it's almost like a jailbreak. Like, 1 person's free, and they grab someone to run along with them.
Jam:Totally. Yeah.
Melissa:There's That's a good one.
Jam:Yeah. There's momentum. It's like, come on. Let's go. Let's get out of here.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. And they go together in the same direction. They're a team. They're Moving in unison now.
Jam:I like that. I like that.
Melissa:Because that's the big thing. They say that the actual definition of lasers now in the In the, dictionary is monochromatic, meaning the same color, but also on a deeper level, they're also the same wave like they're moving in the same direction. Some of them are polarized, I think, so the light is all traveling in the same up and down motion, although I don't know for sure.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So it's very uniform. Got it. This light stream is very uniform.
Jam:That And so this light stream full of these photons Mhmm. That have or are already excited in energy, all traveling together, a huge deal break.
Melissa:I think photons are sort of Just pure energy. They're they call them light packets or light particles.
Jam:K.
Melissa:And light is energy, sort of.
Jam:They are energy, Which wouldn't we all be if we had the chance to escape from jail, wouldn't we? Wouldn't wouldn't Or
Melissa:just kids when they get to go do something bad that they're not supposed to?
Jam:Or just like kids, It's recess time. You know? Yeah.
Melissa:More like regular light. They're all over the place.
Jam:Oh, yeah. Good point. Okay. Good point. Anyway, whatever their motive, they are pure energy.
Melissa:Pure energy.
Jam:And They are then pointed toward a tattoo.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And if The person who's doing the pointing has already selected the correct wavelength of light to be Pointing at the tattoo. Mhmm. As it fires toward the tattoo, Our skin is a different color, and so it somehow does not interact and mess with and hurt our skin.
Melissa:Right. Because our skin Can't absorb that wavelength. Right? So you really to absorb light, you need to get the light adjust It's a right amount of energy. Mhmm.
Melissa:And the light that's being shot out is the wrong energy for your skin to absorb, but the perfect energy for the pigments It's to absorb.
Jam:Right. And so as soon as it goes through the skin and then hits the pigments, it is the right amount of energy For it to absorb, and that energy starts to mess with the makeup of these large pigment Molecules
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Starts to break them down
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Because it takes energy to break the bonds.
Melissa:That's right. Some people think breaking bonds releases but that's not always true. I mean, it's never true, but sometimes the overall reaction releases energy. But The bonds breaking themselves, you have to put energy in for that to happen.
Jam:And when that's happening, it starts to Make the size of these pigments be such that our immune system can come in and do what it was always trying to do. Yes. Always wanted to do in the 1st place. Take away and get rid of, dispose of these foreign, not naturally occurring in our skin, things that in most cases, our immune system is supposed to do. Some bacteria gets in there.
Jam:Some other stuff gets in there. It's supposed to do that.
Melissa:That's its job.
Jam:And it we're then our the tattoo is gone. Yeah.
Melissa:And that's it.
Jam:Body, that is what a roller coaster.
Melissa:What a
Jam:What a complicated like, I'll you said at the beginning. I mean, you you told us. Simple, but then not simple Right. Once we get into it.
Melissa:And you just say, hey. The laser breaks up Those pigments and then the immune system does away with them. And also when you break them up, they change color, and
Jam:you can't really see them anymore.
Melissa:Yeah. You're like, oh, okay. It checks out. But then if you're like, but why? Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. That thing my nephew will do when he says, why? Why? Over and over and over, and then you just have to keep it going deeper and deeper. That's kind of what we did on this episode.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:You know?
Jam:Totally.
Melissa:Well, good job, Jam. I don't have any fun facts for you. I meant to save that one about Ruby and Alexandrite for the end, but I got too excited and wanted to tell you in response to your question that I didn't have the answer for you, I redirected.
Jam:That's okay because I think fun facts are fun even no matter when they have happened.
Melissa:And, really, this whole episode is a fun fact. I mean, all of our episodes are fun facts.
Jam:Yeah. It's 1 big, long fun fact called chemistry.
Melissa:Called chemistry. That was funny. Okay. Well, Do you wanna wrap it up with a fun fact about your life, Jim?
Jam:I do have a fun fact to share about my life, but the tough thing about it is that The listeners cannot know all the details about this thing that is in the works right now, but let me just Kind
Melissa:of a little secret.
Jam:A little secret. Melissa obviously knows because for a lot of reasons. 1, because we're friends, but also because the project that I'm working on with her husband, who she knows pretty well. Mason and I have been working on something and have been having fun having meetings about this thing and Talking, late and planning and plotting and scheming and
Melissa:Mason stayed out until midnight the other night. I left To go home, to grade papers
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And got home, Mason's like a bedtime person.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And I got home, and I kept checking to see his location because I kept saying as soon as he gets home, I get to go to bed. As soon as he goes home is when I get to stop working and go to bed. Yeah. And he stayed out until midnight. I got almost all my work done.
Melissa:I was so annoyed. Yeah.
Jam:It was pretty funny. And then even my wife texted our group message and was like, oh, I feel so sorry for you guys. Mason, I'm so sorry you're out so late.
Melissa:Oh, because the motion centers are what? On our on
Jam:our cameras on our on our front porch. And I was like, actually, he stayed by his own volition. And we were talking out and planning about stuff. So anyway, that's all I can say right now.
Melissa:You'll hear about it though.
Jam:Oh, yeah. Listeners will hear about it when the time is right, and that time may may be soon. Who knows? And you could also maybe even be involved in it maybe if you wanted. Yeah.
Jam:The listeners could be if they want it to be, but they don't have to be.
Melissa:They don't have to be. No. Mhmm. Well, My happy thing is a lot less cryptic. Okay.
Melissa:I sort of have 2 happy things.
Jam:How could it be?
Melissa:Well, it's my little nephew Edison's birthday.
Jam:Aw.
Melissa:And I've talked about him before. He's so cute. His mom is a photographer in the Dallas area. So if, you know, shout out the Dallas Creations if you want a photography session. She's done really good photos of me and Mason before, but She also not only does she make photography, but she makes really cute kids, and we're just 1 so far, I guess.
Jam:Yeah. And he turned Oh, her kids are cute.
Melissa:That's right. He turned 4 this week, and so he and I got together. And he actually helped me decorate his cake. And by helped, I mean, he told me what to do. Nice.
Melissa:I tried to put icing or frosting or whatever you call it on the sides Uh-huh. Of the cake, and he told me no and refused to let me. And I tried, and he said, no. I don't like it. I don't like it.
Melissa:Interesting. Had very strong opinions. He also picked out The sprinkles and the gumballs that went on top of the cake, and he wanted strawberries on top.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:He picked the flavor. He picked the color of the icing. I mean, he did it all.
Jam:Wow. Here's a question.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:How much did he like how his own decisions turned out?
Melissa:I think he really liked it. Nice. He later, he went back and wanted to open it, and I thought he wanted to or open the fridge. I thought he wanted to eat the cake, and I said, oh, no. We have other cake for you over here.
Melissa:And he was like, no. I just wanna look at it. And I was like,
Jam:Look at what my hands are made here.
Melissa:Yeah. And he did even try to help spread the frosting, but it was a little hard. So he said, you do it. So but it I think it turned Really cute. I mean, it's obviously not the, like, oh, classy, whatever, but it is really fun, and it was perfect for a kid's party.
Jam:Yeah. That's way cool. What a cool idea.
Melissa:It was really fun. So
Jam:I bet he'll remember that for a long time.
Melissa:So He did tell my brother that he loved the sauce he had at my house, and the only thing we Could think was the fat icing.
Jam:You were saying it probably meets the definition of sauce
Melissa:Yeah. For
Jam:the most part. So
Melissa:So that was really cute. And then the other thing is we've been talking about how Jem and I have been working to get ahead recording so that he can have a break for paternity leave, and I could have a break for What do we call it? PhD eternity leave? Docternity leave?
Jam:Docternity yeah. Something like that.
Melissa:Basically, for celebrating getting my dissertation and taking a rest and having a little creative recoup, and we've done it. We are all caught up. Mhmm. So for you, it'll be as if no time has passed at all, but the next episode you hear will be the 1st time Jim and I have recorded in Mhmm. At least a month.
Jam:We've we're we are ahead on the recording. Now I do need to put some hours in and get ahead on the editing aspect of it.
Melissa:That's true.
Jam:But the fact that we have been able to get this far ahead and get our schedule aligned this many times to do that, that's obviously a feat.
Melissa:So Yeah. Especially with everything else going on.
Jam:Yes. And you plan as many episodes and have as many ideas and Yes. Doing all the research and stuff like that. So
Melissa:hard there at the end, so I really appreciate Kate for getting us through the last 2 episode ideas. Nice. Nice. Because I was having a hard time getting excited about writing another episode, but then I found this idea and thought it was really cool. So Nice.
Melissa:Good job, Kate. Thanks so much. And, really, thanks to all of our listeners who have given good episode ideas. I really appreciate you, and it really has made getting ahead in episodes fun because I get to explore The creativity that y'all have. So thank you so much for letting us do this show.
Jam:And thanks for turning those ideas into cool Episode to new research and all that stuff, Melissa. And if you also have an idea out there, you, listener, right now have an idea or question about something in life that may be chemistry, Please reach out to us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at m for your life. That's Kim, f o r, your life to share your thoughts and ideas. If you like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it and help us keep the show be free, you can go to kodashfi.com/ Cheme for your life, or tap the link in our show notes and donate the cost of a cup of coffee. If you're not able to donate, you could still help us by subscribing to our favorite podcast app and rating and writing review on Apple Podcasts.
Jam:That also helps us to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of Chemistry For Your Life was created by Melissa Colini and Jame Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jim Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to
