Green Fire?!
Spooky Halloween, everybody.
Jam:Hello?
Melissa:This is one of our favorite times of year.
Jam:Absolutely.
Melissa:And one of our favorite memories of Halloween is in 2019 before the world
Melissa:ended, We
Melissa:lit a pumpkin on fire with green fire.
Jam:Yeah. It was awesome.
Melissa:It was so fun. We recently posted a reel of that on our Instagram.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So you
Melissa:can go check it out, and you can also hear about how chemistry can turn fire green.
Jam:Yes. Since we published this episode 2 years ago, a lot more of you have found our podcast. And there's a chance that maybe you had not gone back and listened to some of our older episodes, But this is one we think you definitely don't want to miss.
Melissa:Definitely.
Jam:Because it's Halloween again, we wanted to reshare this one and give you a chance to hear about How fire can be turned green.
Melissa:And now on to the spooky show. Okay. Ready?
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:I hate you so much. Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life spooky edition.
Jam:The podcast that spookly helps you understand the chemistry of your spooky everyday life.
Melissa:Not your spooky everyday life, just your spooky Halloween life.
Jam:Your spooky Halloween life.
Melissa:Happy Halloween, everyone.
Jam:Hey, guys.
Melissa:I'm so excited that we have an episode Airing on Halloween day.
Jam:Pretty sweet. Hope you're chowing down on candy or at least getting ready too.
Melissa:I love Halloween. I hope you're dressed up as something cool or you're gonna get 2. Yeah. Halloween is so fun.
Jam:Or maybe you're cool on the inside, and that's fine too. Maybe you don't need to dress up.
Melissa:I like dressing up even if I don't need to dress up.
Jam:Yeah. It's kinda fun sometimes.
Melissa:One of my friends turned to me in love with Halloween a few years ago when we went to her family's Halloween party. And
Jam:Do I go all out or something?
Melissa:They go all out. And I just never realized that it's you can make really fun costumes, and they don't have to be expensive. Yeah. It's just fun.
Jam:And and ones that are kinda funny. Like, I love when people make a costume or have a costume that's, like, a little bit like a joke. Mhmm. And once you kind of figure out what's going on, you're like Oh, I get it.
Melissa:Okay. Oh, what's your all time favorite Halloween costume that you've ever worn?
Jam:One time, I was in the Scooby Doo gang with some people. I was the blonde one, and, can't remember his name.
Melissa:Shaggy.
Jam:Nope. That's not the blonde one.
Melissa:Freddie.
Jam:Yes. I think it's just Fred.
Melissa:Fred.
Jam:Yeah. I'm a Fred, and we happen to have the right and then people that we were like a group that hung out quite a bit in college That just all kinda already looked enough like different people in the Scooby Doo gang. Like, I'm not, like, muscular or whatever like Fred is, but I have blonde hair, blue eyes. It was very, very, very easy for me to get the costume together
Melissa:Nice. For that.
Jam:And, also, I dressed up as Flight of the Conchords with, My friend Austin one time. And that was one of my favorite ones. Not everybody got it, because they're not quite as well known of a group or whatever. But it was very fun to do that. I like that it was a little more niche even though it was kinda cool for everybody to recognize that we're a Scooby Doo gang.
Melissa:Do you did you have a Scooby Doo? Did you have a dog?
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:That one we had it we had to do, someone wearing a costume for that. Oh, okay. The other ones we made we made the costumes for found stuff thrift thrifting or whatever.
Melissa:Nice. But Well, I only told you to do your all time favorite, but I'll allow you to do 2. I think my all time favorite that I've ever been Uh-huh. One time I was Ron Swanson for Halloween.
Jam:Woah.
Melissa:And I killed it.
Jam:Dang. That's really cool.
Melissa:And it was very cheap. I went to Goodwill and I bought just small men's clothing, and I made myself have a beer belly with a T shirt. And My friend, shout out, Katie Hubbard, friend of the podcast. She did my hair to look like a man's hairdo. Uh-huh.
Melissa:It was so Perfect.
Jam:Man, that's awesome. I don't think I've seen any photos of that.
Melissa:Oh, we'll put a we'll put a photo up of that one and your Scooby Doo one.
Jam:Nice. Wait. It'll be fun. Can we do the photo hunt for the animal? Yeah.
Jam:Sure. We can put them into 1 photo if you want.
Melissa:Yeah. We can do, like, a
Jam:So I don't take up too much. Yeah.
Melissa:Well, I Also, Katie then was Leslie Knope, and she walked around with a binder all day and was very excited all day. And I was angry and tried to not laugh, which was very hard. So it was a fun costume. That is probably my all time favorite.
Jam:Dang, that's fun.
Melissa:And Katie is a sister of the friend who first got me involved in Halloween. So it's a family affair.
Jam:The family that was really into it.
Melissa:It's the Hubbard family.
Jam:Nice. That's awesome.
Melissa:Shout out, Hubbard family. Love you guys. You know what'd be fun?
Jam:What?
Melissa:What if we had all of our anyone who's listening now Uh-huh. Share I don't know exactly how to do this on Instagram, but share pictures of their Halloween their all time favorite Halloween costumes. Uh-huh. And then Is there a way we could take that and share it in our story share their post in our story?
Jam:I think so. I think they could mention us, Or did it end their story and they've introduced us, we could definitely repost it.
Melissa:Okay. Let's do that. Okay. So anyone who's listening right now who wants to share your all time favorite Halloween costume Mhmm. Since today's Halloween, and we will share it in our story.
Melissa:We'll share if you tag us in your story, we'll Reshared in ours, and that'd be so fun to see everyone's fun Halloween costume.
Jam:Yeah. That'd be awesome. So Instagram's the the easy way to do that for sure.
Melissa:So Yeah. Let's do this.
Jam:There. That'd be great. We'll find a way. Send to it somehow. If you
Melissa:don't have an Instagram or if you just if you're only on Twitter, we can definitely retweet on Twitter.
Jam:Yeah. Totally.
Melissa:We are not great at Facebook, but you could email us, and we'll put it on one of our things too.
Jam:Yes. Yes. It's a good idea. I like it.
Melissa:I think that'll be so fun. Yeah. So that was a fun Halloween start, but let's get into our topic for today because I'm very excited about it.
Jam:Is our topic gonna be Halloween esque?
Melissa:It's definitely Halloween y. Woah. Halloween themed. I picked it because today's Halloween.
Jam:Okay. Cool. Cool.
Melissa:So Mhmm. Today's topic is, I'm so excited, how to make green fire.
Jam:Green fire, like, you can make the fire the color that you want it to be?
Melissa:Yes. You were not as all excited as I thought you're gonna be.
Jam:I'm so so, like, you can make Fire be a color? Yes. Okay. That's kind of nuts.
Melissa:So you know in Harry Potter when they throw the flu powder and it turns green? Mhmm.
Jam:I do not know that.
Melissa:Oh, you haven't seen Harry Potter?
Jam:I saw the movies a couple years ago.
Melissa:I think they have that in there. In the book, they definitely have it.
Jam:It's been a while, and I'm not, like, a Harry Potter person or whatever. But I did I did
Melissa:see them. Not at all going according to plan.
Jam:But I did see the movies, and I do like fire a lot.
Melissa:Well, you clearly blocked this out because, honestly, they might CGI, but they have green fire in Harry Potter movies.
Jam:I believe you. It's just that it's been a while since I've seen them, but And I'll sell them once in but I like fire.
Melissa:Okay. Well, it's really cool.
Jam:Even if it wasn't in Harry Potter, I'd still be very interested because I do like fire, And I like fire.
Melissa:Well, you can make today's episode is gonna be about how you can make not only fire turn green, But Uh-huh. How you can make that Halloweeny. Woah. Are you ready?
Jam:Yeah. Very ready. Let's do this.
Melissa:Okay. So turning fire colors is all about ions. Okay. Ions are we briefly touched on this sort of.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:It's kind of a different concept when it happens to a molecule versus an atom, but we talked about this briefly in the acid and base episode.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So those we're talking about molecules, which are groups of atoms. We're talking about atoms by themselves like the ones on the periodic table.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So if an atom, something that you can point to on the periodic table, gains or loses an electron, it Comes positively or negatively charged.
Jam:Because normally, it's just balanced.
Melissa:Right. They are the same number of protons As electrons, so the positive and the negative charge even out.
Jam:Got it. Yes. So you're saying if it just gets out of balance either in the positive direction or the negative direction, it becomes an ion?
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:Okay. So if you've heard of table salt
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:N a c l. Mhmm. Actually, table salt is made up of 2 ions. N a, sodium Mhmm. Has lost an electron, and chlorine, c l, has gained an electron.
Melissa:1 is positive, 1 is negative, and so they hang out very close To one another.
Jam:Got it. Also, earlier when I said I don't know what ions are, I should correct that I don't remember what they are. I know that I've learned it before. And miss Pittard from high school chemistry, I'm very sorry that I didn't remember. It's been a lot of years.
Jam:And doctor Marshall from, Chemistry, whenever I was a freshman, I shouldn't remember. It's been a while. So that should be the clarification I should give. That's fair. It's not that I was not taught it.
Melissa:That's fair. So Yeah. I think they probably would think, I taught him that.
Jam:Yeah. I didn't do anything at all, but, like, they'd be like, that's a very simple thing. I'm sure we'd went over that. Like, it's So Yeah.
Melissa:That is very pretty basic, simple stuff.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Some of the very first things that you learn in the 1st semester of chemistry, even in chemistry for non majors.
Jam:I know I've heard the word a ton. It's just that it didn't stick with me at all.
Melissa:Right. We very briefly touched on this in a q and r episode.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:We had a question from a listener, Ryan
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:About energy, and We talked about how energy goes is absorbed. And when the energy is absorbed, electrons will move to higher The best way I can describe it is as shells. Mhmm. So if an atom absorbs energy, its electrons become excited and they jump just like when little kids Get excited. They jump.
Melissa:You know? Mhmm. Mhmm. They'll get excited and jump up to a higher shelf.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Then as The if the heat is no longer being put in or if the energy is no longer being put into the molecule, eventually or Adam. Eventually, those electrons aren't excited anymore. They don't have energy holding them up there anymore, and they'll come back down just like when a little kid Usher's for a nap.
Jam:Sugar rush kinda deal.
Melissa:Sugar rush. Electrons choose that sim a similar thing.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:They accept their energy. They go to the higher shelf, And then they let their energy back off as they fall back down to the normal state, the nonexcited state. So Sometimes when that energy is let off, it's let off in certain increments that happen to be visible to the human eye.
Jam:Oh.
Melissa:And that goes back to our visible region that we talked about in the microwave episode and in the sunscreen episode.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:So sometimes when an atom or even a molecule absorbs energy and lets it off, that shows to you as color. Woah. Mhmm. And there are couple iterations of this. We're gonna talk about it in different contexts on down the line.
Melissa:But for today
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:That matters because If you put copper ions
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And dissolve them in a flammable solution
Jam:Mhmm. And
Melissa:then light that solution on fire. The copper ions are absorbing energy and then letting it off As green light.
Jam:Woah. That's crazy. So you just have to put it in something flammable, the Xions.
Melissa:Yes. If you
Jam:just try to fluid or something?
Melissa:Yes. If you just try to light copper on fire
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:That wouldn't be an effective method. The most effective method that's known now, and this is very dangerous.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:I wanna give a disclaimer.
Jam:Oh, yeah. That's a good idea.
Melissa:Not do what I'm about to say unless you are Chemist, and you're in a safety setting, and you have personal protection equipment. You can dissolve metal salts like copper
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:In Methanol, and then light Methanol on fire. And if you like that Methanol on fire because it's very flammable, it will be green.
Jam:That is insane. Yes. That's so crazy.
Melissa:Just because so cool. It's because
Jam:it's a different thing that was being burnt. Like, there's something else, another part of it, and it changes the color. Because I always have this idea in my mind. Like, I think Sometimes I've seen different colors of fire because I'm burning a plastic thing that's a different color. It's very brief.
Jam:Mhmm. It's like when you're a kid and you throw the wrapper to your pop tart or something like that
Melissa:Right.
Jam:In the, fire. Because of the color, you kinda see some colors happening. Mhmm. Isn't it totally the same thing, though?
Melissa:Right.
Jam:But I am for the most part, Have an idea in my head of what color fire is. It's that, like, yellowy orangeness.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And that's it. Sounds like a little bit of blue at the very base or whatever, but the idea
Melissa:of it being extremely hot.
Jam:The idea of of being able to change it on purpose It's cool. That's cool.
Melissa:It is cool.
Jam:I'm here for that. I wish I knew how to do it and was safe enough to, but, of course, I will not do that Unless I'm under the supervision of a chemist.
Melissa:Absolutely right. Mhmm. And I have a video that we're gonna post online of a demonstration where someone sprays methanol with copper salt dissolved in it onto a bunsen burner, and you can see the Cool spurt of green flame.
Jam:Will you tell me what I have to do to convince you To allow me to be part of some experiment that creates green fire.
Melissa:Well, I'll tell you what. If you go to the ACS website, that's the American Chemical Society.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:They have a Fun Halloween chemistry page, and we can link to it in our show notes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And on that, you can click on pumpkins. And then if you scroll down, there is an experiment called rainbow fire jack o' lantern.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:We'll link to that in the show notes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That takes you to a page that shows you a safer method of having a pumpkin on fire that's colorful. Cool.
Jam:And can we do that?
Melissa:I think that we will be able to do that today and post a video
Jam:Oh my gosh. Dude, that is way cool. I'm I'm ready. That was actually a lot easier. I thought I was gonna have to, like, do some faints if it work or, like, have to buy you something, something like that, to convince you to, like
Melissa:Oh, no.
Jam:Let me do that.
Melissa:I should well Well,
Jam:Julie, no. You already said.
Melissa:I'm so excited about science that you don't usually have to convince me to let you do an experiment.
Jam:That's a good point. That's a good point. I was right not to tell you that I was gonna, like, potentially buy you something or whatever to convince you to do that.
Melissa:Well so for this, you need to be very safe. You need to be careful. And because it's a fire experiment, we don't want any kids to do this without their parents around. It's probably safest if it's not near anything flammable, maybe on some concrete, far away from grass, far away from Any kind of solvent or liquid that goes in your car.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:A pile of sand, even better. Mhmm. And it tells you there's some Chemicals available to buy that have some copper salts in it that you can use to burn, and then you can use hand sanitizer as a liquid you dissolve it in. Because Hand sanitizer has a high water content, so it's likely to extinguish quickly, so it won't be as dangerous as pure methanol.
Jam:So it is flammable, but not, like, Quite as. Right?
Melissa:And you can have your cool rainbow fire pumpkin.
Jam:Dude, that's so cool.
Melissa:I'm very excited.
Jam:I'm surprised at how simple it is too. Mhmm. Meaning, like, not that I'd have, like, copper salts lying around or whatever in my own house that I know of, But just the idea that, like Probably not. You change something small about what you're burning, about, like, what you add to the fuel or whatever, And then the fire's like,
Melissa:alright.
Jam:I'll be this color now.
Melissa:It varies about what you're burning.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Fire is very much about what you're burning. And Then the more complex part, we've already learned a lot about it, the electromagnetic spectrum, and that sometimes energy is emitted in terms of visible light. And we've learned about electrons and that they absorb energy. And so you had all the tools in your toolbox, and most people who've been listening for The last few episodes have the tools in their toolbox to be able to understand this pretty easily.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So it's very cool.
Jam:Okay. So, Like we're talking about earlier, the fire is kinda like a kid on a sugar rush.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:The ions are kinda like The sugar in a way. Because
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:The energy level of the electrons. The electrons can can can can go up a notch in energy Mhmm. Because of the ions. Correct?
Melissa:That's, okay, that's a good thing to point out. So, actually, to say, it's really the distance they go up. So Uh-huh. Normally, when we heat a fire and we let it down Mhmm.
Jam:The
Melissa:electrons jump up and jump down a amount if they're burning just normal fuel.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:But when we add those ions in there, they're able to absorb a new amount, maybe A plus 2 more jewels or whatever of energy.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And that is the same amount that they'll then let off, and that is the thing that changes color. So it's almost like we adjust the distance between the two energy levels
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Or the amount of energy it takes in. And the change in the distance is what makes the change in the color.
Jam:So kid is eating more candy This time. Mhmm. More sugar.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Not like 0 sugar did a lot. It's like some sugar to more. The distance that that the energy level's going up Uh-huh. And then back down, that's a higher amount of distance.
Melissa:Yes. For the electrons.
Jam:For the electrons. Down. Mhmm. And so it'd be like, If your kid had a sugar rush Mhmm.
Melissa:And
Jam:when the when the kid crashes coming back down off of that high Mhmm. Your kid turns green.
Melissa:Yes. As they're burning off the energy. So so it's almost like their normal energy level is the ground Day of electrons. And then as they get excited, the electrons get excited. The kid is equivalent to the kid eating Mhmm.
Melissa:Candy. Mhmm. And then they hit a peak and come back down.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And the burning off of the energy, the child running around in circles because they're so hype Hyped up. Mhmm. The burning of that energy, the letting the energy off is the moment that the light is let out.
Jam:Yes. And your your kid turns into Shrek? Yes. Got it. Okay.
Jam:Cool.
Melissa:So if they had if somehow they were suddenly able to absorb slightly more energy from candy than normal Mhmm.
Jam:And
Melissa:then they turned green when they were burning all that energy off. That is basically what's happening with fire.
Jam:Got it. That's that's pretty awesome.
Melissa:It is it I think it is amazing that we can change fire colors. And there's a lot of applications They are gonna come up again later, but it is so cool.
Jam:Yeah. I I'm a little like It seems like something was just unlocked. You know what I mean? It's like, okay. Fire is always this color, but in my mind, that's like a rule or something.
Jam:I don't know. Whatever. It's like you're just like, no. Actually, it can be different colors if you want it to be. It's like, what?
Melissa:You got it.
Jam:I like it.
Melissa:I liked your kid excitement. Your kid excitement example. That was good. So that's it. That is This week's episode on how to turn fire green.
Melissa:How to have a happy Harry Potter Spooky green flame Halloween. Well, Jam, what are your big exciting Halloween plans?
Jam:Well, I will be celebrating Halloween by going to New Zealand. My wife and I are leaving The day that you guys are hearing this. We'll be leaving for New Zealand. Unrelated Halloween sort of, like, we don't normally
Melissa:What time of the day?
Jam:I I don't remember, actually. I probably should know that, but Oh
Melissa:my god.
Jam:Yeah. I would guess it's pretty early. I don't know. So we'll be headed to New Zealand for a Trip. We've not tripped together in a while, so, we're overdue.
Jam:And yeah. We're looking forward to it. So we'll be Halloween ing.
Melissa:Is it called down under if it's New Zealand instead of Australia?
Jam:Yes. Because they're both down under.
Melissa:Okay. Cool.
Jam:I actually don't know. I don't know if they consider themselves to be in that category, but the things that make it True that Australia is down under are also true in New Zealand. That's how I'd say it.
Melissa:Well, I'm glad that you're going to New Zealand. I think it's gonna be beautiful.
Jam:I absolutely too. I wish you could just
Melissa:take me with you.
Jam:Yeah. It's gonna be sweet.
Melissa:So that's your happy thing for this week?
Jam:Yes. That's making me happy, and, Hopefully, we are on our way and all is going well when y'all hear this. But, yes, I'm I'm excited about it.
Melissa:Very exciting. Yay.
Jam:What about you? What are your Halloween plans?
Melissa:Well, we're having to record this in advance, so I don't know what my Halloween plans are just yet.
Jam:Oh.
Melissa:But,
Jam:I TBD.
Melissa:TBD Halloween plans, but I'll say something that makes me happy. This is seeing a silver lining.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:But because Jim's gonna be out of town for a few weeks, I'll have big chunks of time to work on my final project for one of my Classes, which October 31st, this bad boy is due 1 month from today.
Jam:Oh, wow. Awesome. That's that's a kinda cool, like, Unexpected benefit?
Melissa:Unexpected benefit. So I'm looking forward to getting a lot of things done while you're away, and we are missing some recording sessions. And, Hopefully, by next week's episode, I'll have knocked out quite a bit for my final project.
Jam:I think that's awesome. Yeah. Also really good that you won't be bored while we're gone and we're not recording. Something y'all want me to do?
Melissa:Yeah. I'm gonna be bored. I would not if it wasn't for school, I'd be bored and sad and have to fill my time up, but I guess I'll be able to survive since I have so much homework. So my sources for this week's episode are actually just The knowledge that I already had, but I did use the ACS website for some Halloween experiments, and thoughtco.com is the website that we're going to link to with the safe but please still be careful. Rainbow fire pumpkin experiment so that you can have a fun and spooky Halloween.
Melissa:Thank you guys so much for joining us this week and for learning about Green Fire, and thanks, Jam, for being such a good listener today.
Jam:To daytime. Especially, I mean, it's in it's fire. I mean, who's not, like, just on the edge of their seat when it comes to the? So, Melissa and I have a lot of ideas for topics of chemistry in everyday life, but we wanna hear from you. So if you have questions or ideas, you can reach out to us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook Look at chem for your life.
Jam:That's chem, f o r, your life, to share your thoughts and ideas. And if you enjoy this podcast, you can subscribe on your favorite podcast app. If you really like it, you can write a review on Apple Podcasts. That helps us to be able to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Colini and Jam Jam Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to a
