Do anti-aging products work?
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist. And I'm not. And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Okay, Jim. This is going to be a long episode.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And I wanna preface it by saying that I am not a medical doctor. So this is not medical advice.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And I'm not telling you that you should do anything
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Or anyone else.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. This is just my interpretation of peer reviewed journal articles as always.
Jam:Okay. Got it.
Melissa:So before I also get into the meat of this episode, I have a lot of caveats this week. Okay. I wanna shout out 2 people.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:1 is Vianette Gee. She is a friend of both of ours
Jam:Yes. Yes. Yes.
Melissa:In real life. She's a friend of this guess she's listened from the very beginning
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And been excited to learn from the very beginning.
Jam:Yes. She somehow thinks we're famous even though We've known her forever.
Melissa:Yeah. Very weird and but amazing. So delightful. And she Recently just finished her hours to become an LPC. That's a licensed professional counselor.
Jam:Is that correct?
Jam:I think so.
Melissa:So congratulations, Vianette. This episode is on in honor of you. And, also, Vianette asked me, like, probably a year ago to do an episode on skin care, so here are finally.
Jam:Okay.
Jam:So that's what the episode's about today?
Melissa:That's what the episode is gonna be about today.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:Also, Darby C convinced me to get into skin care, so she's partly Responsible too.
Jam:Nice. I know Darby. Very cool.
Melissa:And last but not least, there's a dermatologist who's on TikTok and YouTube. Uh-huh. And he makes videos about skin care similar to what we're doing here in the podcast, I feel like
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:Where he talks about peer reviewed journal articles and Actual scientific evidence for why we should care for our skin the way we do.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And it made me really excited to learn because before, I'd kinda felt like Some skincare stuff was kind of a lot of mumbo jumbo.
Jam:Right. Right. Yeah.
Melissa:So to have someone trustworthy who referenced things I understood and you talked about the molecules. That got me really excited too.
Jam:Yeah. And skin is complicated. So it's like Mhmm. I was someone who that's their specialty. That's what they Have been taught a ton about and have studied a lot.
Jam:Right.
Jam:Makes total sense. It's like you are a chemist, so looking at just the ingredients of something is a lot that you can understand, but skin is complicated. Yeah. And that is something that, like, makes sense as a whole Hold discipline for that.
Melissa:Yeah. So So I got really excited. He really made things make sense and simplified them down, and I never felt But he was just trying to get you to buy expensive products or anything like that. Yeah. He gave lots of options and lots of different price range and gave suggestions, and I really appreciate his presentation of the information.
Jam:Nice. Nice.
Melissa:So check him out if you wanna learn more. I really appreciate it a lot.
Jam:Wait. What's what's his name?
Melissa:Doctor Shah. I don't know. You can probably just type in doctor Shah, s h a h, Dermatology and his, like, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. He makes videos on all the platforms.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:The YouTube ones, I think, are the most informative, and I actually referenced one of those Today
Jam:Oh, cool.
Melissa:In our episode. So so the those are the people who combined to make today happen, so I wanted to Give credit where credit was due. So first, let's talk about the skin because that's what we're gonna talk about today. The question that I'm answering is do antiaging products actually work?
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But before we can answer that question, we have to talk about the skin. Mhmm.
Jam:So this
Melissa:is a quote from a peer reviewed journal article. It says, quote, functions of the skin include environmental protection against radiation and Heat regulation, immune response, biochemical synthesis, sensory detection, regulation of absorption and loss of water and elect electrolytes. Mhmm.
Jam:So
Melissa:that's a lot of jobs that the skin does for us.
Jam:Wow. Jeez.
Melissa:And so I think it's important that we take care of our skin.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Not just from a superficial, I want my skin to look good. Although if you want that, that's fine too.
Jam:Right?
Jam:But,
Melissa:also, we should take care of it and protect it because of all that it's doing to protect us.
Jam:Right. Right. Functionally, it's like Your house or your car where there's some just functional importance to it that means it's worth taking care of just regardless of, like, All the look aspects of it. The Right. Cosmetic parts are kind of sometimes separate.
Jam:But okay. That makes sense.
Melissa:In the same way we should wear, you know, UV protection on our Eyeglasses or sunglasses, you wanna also protect your skin from all the stuff coming at it.
Jam:Yeah. Yep. Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So The skin has an outer layer called the epidermis. Mhmm. And beneath that is the dermis. And the dermis is where the action kind of happens.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Imagine in your mind a huge network, just like a construction project or something that's Holding up something else.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So I imagine, like, a crisscross of all these 2 by For his lumber holding up something.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Jam:Yeah. Like, the framing of, like, the walls of a house or whatever. Yeah. Okay.
Melissa:Something like that. So that's kind of what the dermis is like. Okay. It has a underlying network of Things that are called extracellular proteins. Uh-huh.
Melissa:So these are proteins that are in our bodies, but they're not inside of a cell.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And they give your skin these proteins, this network gives your skin elasticity and firmness. K. It also has the vascular system in this dermis layer. And beneath that, the subcutaneous layer is fat cells which seem to sort of support this network Okay. In the Work
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:In the dermis. So our focus today is where the action happens on the dermis.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And especially on that extracellular matrix, that big fancy word, which just means basically the crisscross Construction zone, framing up of a house, the underlying structure, the proteins that hold up our skin.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So the things that make those proteins are cells called fibroblasts
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Which sounds kind of like a made up word. I guess All words are made up. But
Jam:Yeah. That's a good point.
Melissa:It's especially seems made up to me. Yeah. And What fibroblastoma make is elastin and collagen primarily.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And they're just proteins, and proteins are polymers. Mhmm. So that right There is chemistry.
Jam:Yeah. Totally. Totally.
Melissa:Okay. These fibroblasts, what I imagine in my mind is if you have this network of 2 by fours holding up a layer of skin, there workers that are putting that together.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:Those are the fibroblast. Are these construction workers walking around? They're making new 2 by fours to put up. Uh-huh. They're maintaining anywhere they break down.
Melissa:They're just taking care of business, keeping our skin, that dermis, in tip top shape.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Okay.
Melissa:They are, like, our workers. They're working in there and making everything sure everything works.
Jam:K.
Melissa:But over time, a nice wooden structure, much like the Texas Giant at 6 Flags Mhmm. Starts to break down.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And as that starts to break down, you'd expect the fibroblast to be able to sort of cover that.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:But when we get old and we slow down, so do ourselves.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:So as we get older, there are less fibroblasts. They're not able to do as much work. So your your construction workers are getting old. They're not as able able to pull as much weight as they used to.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:There are number reasons that happens, including your genetics
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Your environment, how much you're in the sun. Some of it is just as we get old. That's what happens. Uh-huh. But so as those things start to break down and Your fibroblasts aren't reproducing as much collagen.
Melissa:There aren't as many of them. That's when we start to see signs of aging.
Jam:Got it. Okay.
Melissa:And what aging literally is is damage of the extracellular matrix.
Jam:Okay. Dang.
Melissa:You start to see your proteins get damaged. The the fibroblast can't work as well, and then you get things like wrinkles or sagging because The matrix just can't hold up the skin.
Jam:Yeah. Got it.
Melissa:So when you see someone aging, you're looking at their damaged molecules.
Jam:Dang.
Melissa:I know.
Jam:But is it really fully preventable? I mean, is some of it just gonna happen no matter what we do?
Melissa:Well, let's talk about that.
Jam:Because and we're gonna get old.
Melissa:We're gonna get old. So that's kind of the 2 main things is natural aging causes damage Mhmm. And photoaging causes damage.
Jam:K.
Melissa:And photoaging is From UV rays.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:Those freaking UV rays.
Jam:Seriously. Jeez.
Melissa:They're at it again. Uh-huh. We've talked about UV rays a lot. Go back
Jam:You can check out our
Melissa:episode about sunscreen. Mhmm. Check out about our episode about why things get faded in the sun.
Jam:Oh, yeah.
Melissa:UV rays are literally waves of energy. So they're They can put energy into things, and they will break them down over time. And what happens to your stuff that gets faded is basically what's happening to your proteins in your in your face.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:1 paper estimated that UV exposure could be responsible for 80% of visible facial aging signs.
Jam:Dang.
Melissa:So it's not just that people are getting older. It's that they're not their skin. Yeah. Yeah. So use sunscreen, people.
Melissa:Help your body protect self. Mhmm. And also don't get skin cancer. Something else that was interesting is photoaging and natural aging look different.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:If a dermatologist looks at 2 different types of skin, they can say this person was protected from the skin sun or this person wasn't.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:Parts of your body that are typically covered up will age differently than your face that gets consistent sun exposure.
Jam:Right. So, yeah, part that's covered up would still change, but that would be the natural aging stuff, not because of neglect of Right. Just protecting yourself from the sun.
Melissa:And they don't only look different, but they are also have different patterns of damage in this extracellular matrix.
Jam:K. Interesting.
Melissa:Isn't that weird?
Jam:Yeah. Wow.
Melissa:So what you see when you can tell this person was aged in the sun or this part of my body was aged in the sun and this part wasn't, That is a different type of damage to the cells and the matrix than the other.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It was just so weird. I remember seeing a picture of a guy who drove for a living, and one side of his face was always in the sun. It was so damaged, and the other side wasn't. And so you can see the difference of photoaging and natural aging.
Jam:Dang. I gotta see that. That sounds very interesting. Yeah. It's also crazy because, like, I know we talked about this whenever we talked about sunscreen, but it just reminds you how ridiculous it is that people think it's beneficial to lay in the sun.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:It's like, no. It's not. Which It's the opposite. This is this long held myth that We've just been passing down. Despite becoming very rational scientific people at some point in our society, we Held on to weird things that were like,
Jam:oh, no. It's good for you
Jam:to, like, just lay out in the sun and good for your skin. Just get some get some UV to beat down on it and just start hammering away at that
Melissa:You get vitamin d, but I think that's yeah. Tanning is not beneficial for your skin. Yeah. Maybe beneficial for your mental health, Maybe beneficial for your vitamin d,
Jam:but
Melissa:it is you need to wear sunscreen if you're doing that.
Jam:Right. And there's other ways to get vitamin d now. So It's like no no need to just go out And bake yourself. And bake yourself just to get that or whatever.
Melissa:So let's talk about how you stop it.
Jam:K.
Melissa:Yeah. First of all, sunscreen. Wear that sunscreen. That is the number one Biggest piece of advice that that that dermatologist gives and also just common sense would state that sunscreen is really important. And he actually says, You're supposed to stop and reapply sunscreen every 2 hours Mhmm.
Melissa:Which is kind of excessive, but he does stop and put a moisturizing sunscreen on again at lunchtime Every day.
Jam:Every day?
Melissa:Every day. You should wear sunscreen every single day.
Jam:Gosh.
Melissa:Every day to protect your skin. Just get a little moisturizer in the morning, Pop it on there.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:Have some SPF in there and protect your skin.
Jam:Dang. That's pretty crazy. I hate how it feels. It's oh, it's That's so horrible. I mean, I'm I realize that that is not a big deal compared to just protecting yourself.
Jam:That's important. But I hate how it feels having sunscreen on me.
Melissa:Well, I'll say this. He recommends there's lots of different sunscreens, and he says with sunscreen, as long as it's SPF 30, that's The minimum that he recommends. Uh-huh. It's all about feel. So find one that feels like lotion, that doesn't smell like sunscreen.
Melissa:Whatever
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:You need To really love it, find 1 that you love and wear it every day, at least once a day. Really, if you're serious, also again at midday.
Jam:Okay. Good to know. Wow.
Melissa:Yeah. So, you know, there's and there's a lot of moisturizing sunscreens that really don't feel as much like sunscreen.
Jam:I'll check that out. Dang. I'm gonna have to, like, actually make changes.
Melissa:Yeah. To protect yourself. Yeah.
Jam:He's pretty hardcore. He doesn't leave a lot of room for, like, maybe you should. Like, no. You should. And also every day, and also maybe at lunch too.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. A 100%. So that's the biggest external factor.
Melissa:Wear your sunscreen. But the other thing, this is a gold standard is what they call it in antiaging, and An antiaging is really about preventing damage.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So or correcting damage, and that is what's known as retinoids.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Retinoid is sort of an umbrella term for, sort of a class of molecules that are going to end up as something known as retinoic acid.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:You'll also hear it called vitamin a because vitamin a also breaks down into retinoic acid.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So these retinols, I it's interesting they call them that. I would if I was marketing, call it vitamin a because I would rather put a vitamin on my skin than something with a crazy
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. It seems like people are more into vitamins.
Jam:Totally. And and is it so it's topical? Like, you have to apply like that so you can't just eat some carrots?
Melissa:Yes. It's topical.
Jam:Got it. Okay.
Melissa:So and it really has a pretty complex naming system. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:Known as IUPAC, put out a definition that included all these things under the umbrella term of vitamin a and retinol. I even I thought, that's a little too much. This is a very complicated name. I'm not sure I'm tracking with what you're saying.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But the. Just to boil it down, yeah, is vitamin a and retinoids are used pretty interchangeably, vitamin a and retinol, this whole class of compounds, and they all break down into retinoic acid.
Jam:Okay. Okay.
Melissa:And that retinoic acid is the form that the skin can use it in. So that's the topical part.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:And the retinoic acid is called acid because it has a functional group.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That functional group is called a carboxylic acid.
Jam:Okay. We've heard that before.
Melissa:We've definitely heard that before. Can you think of a time we've heard that before? Just a little pre quiz.
Jam:Oh, that's gonna be that's hard. All the different terms like that.
Melissa:I'll give it to you if you want me to.
Jam:Yeah. I feel like we I know we've had it recently, honestly. Multiple times, but there's been a somewhat recent time that we that it was mentioned. Okay. Tell me.
Melissa:It's in vinegar.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:But it's also
Jam:Which is an acid.
Melissa:It is an acid. And most of the acids we've talked about, I feel like, end up being carboxylic acid. They're just really useful.
Jam:Yeah. I feel like I can't even count how many times I've heard you say carboxylic acid. Yeah. It seems like a, Like, if you had a bingo card for chemistry free life, it'd be on there for sure.
Melissa:Oh, we should've done a bingo card for our 100th episode.
Jam:Dang. That's a great idea. Of course, just a little joke ends up being a good idea.
Jam:Oh, that's
Melissa:we should put that we should really, like, make one and put it out for the or something? Yeah.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:That'd be fun. Yeah. Maybe we could do that for, like, or 200,000. Can you imagine? Okay.
Melissa:So I couldn't find out a lot about the mechanism of how retinols do what they do.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But what they do, what retinoids do is increase the number and the function of fibroblast in the skin.
Jam:Number and function?
Melissa:So, basically, they send in reinforcements. So there are more little guys Uh-huh. Helping to build your network.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:And that makes there be more collagen produced, so your network is more Effectively maintained.
Jam:Yes. Okay. Got it.
Melissa:So they literally improve collagen production.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And there was a study where they wanted to see if retinoids helped not only photoaged skin, but also Naturally aging skin. Uh-huh. They took samples from part of the skin that doesn't usually see the sun Mhmm. The behind, the backside Mhmm. And tested before and after the application of just a 1% solution.
Melissa:So just 1% of the retinoid was present Uh-huh. For 7 days, And there was an increase in fibroblast.
Jam:Nice. They were just, like, then tested just to see how many fibroblasts There were before and afters like that?
Melissa:Yeah. They looked to see the improvement, and there was improvement.
Jam:So it would it be visually evident or just that they tested, like, Did, like, a blood test from like that?
Melissa:I think they took samples of the skin
Jam:And looked at it.
Melissa:Or such as a biopsy Yeah. And stained it to see if they could Identify the different things present in it.
Jam:Got it. Got it. So it's not
Jam:like this wrinkly, patchy skin. Now no wrinkles.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:It was more like yeah. Just healthier.
Melissa:Looked the underlying structure.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Okay.
Melissa:So it and that's not the only study. There are tons of studies on this. I cited a bunch in our references, But there is a very clear FDA approved, no questions asked. This improves signs of aging in skin by making more fibroblast, which makes more collagen, which makes your skin thicker and reduces those wrinkles.
Jam:Got it. Okay. Okay. Wow.
Melissa:So if you're someone who spent a lot of time sunning, I didn't because I hate the sun. Uh-huh. We all know this is something that you can do to sort of help your skin recover from the photo damage that it has already experienced.
Jam:Uh-huh. Interesting. Okay. Cool. That's great.
Melissa:Yeah. So, basically, retinoids or vitamin a is an antidote to the sun. We're saving ourselves from the damage the
Jam:sun does. Nice. And if we're combining that with, like, protecting ourselves in the 1st place, then
Melissa:game over.
Jam:Game over. Sorry, son.
Melissa:Sorry, son. We beat you. This dermatologist did say that some dermatologists heard about the importance of sunscreen before Uh-huh. And really took it to heart, like, 30 years ago, and their skin looks so much better than other people in their age group because it was not common knowledge at that time.
Jam:Okay. Interesting.
Melissa:Yeah. So they took it seriously. They're in their sixties now, and they've got great skin
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Because they wore sunscreen every day.
Jam:You know
Jam:what's funny is I feel like a lot of people would get more behind the sunscreen thing if like, for me, I just think about when I was a kid, and it's basically as my parents would say, you don't wanna get sunburned.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And that seemed like the only thing I was trying to avoid. You know? Yeah. But thinking about Long term damage and also, you know, skin cancer possibilities. Yeah.
Jam:It's a lot more motivating. I don't know how you explain it to a kid, but Lot more motivated than just, like, it might be red and kinda hurt. You know? Because then you think that's okay. Fine.
Jam:I don't care if it's red. It kinda hurts. That's hard to get people to get behind.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. And I think if especially, I would have gotten more into that probably in my teenage years
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Or in my even in my twenties.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Now it took me until I hit 30 and thought, oh, maybe I should care about this because All these other people have convinced me. Thanks, Starby, etcetera. Yeah. That's when I started to really be on top of it.
Jam:Yeah. So
Melissa:that's that's it. That's the chemistry of retinoids, and that's how they break down. They Go through some chemical processes to break down into retinoic acid.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And then they support your skin, and your skin is also chemistry. So all of that is just chemistry on chemistry, and the damaging factor is chemistry. We've just got chemistry all over this situation.
Jam:Seriously. Wow. K. Should I try to wrap this up in some way?
Melissa:I think you should. And then I'm gonna give you some fun facts, and They also sort of act as warnings.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So this has been the chemistry of retinoids and how it's not really a myth, but then I'm gonna give you some Cautions to take with you.
Jam:Okay. So our skin is complicated.
Jam:Mhmm.
Jam:It's got the part that we see down the outside, The epidermis, which I always remember as a like a kid, they would often do the joke of they tell someone, hey. Your epidermis is showing. Yes. You remember that? And when you're you don't know what that word is, it sounds like something you don't want to be showing.
Jam:Yeah. And you're like, oh, no. And
Jam:Mhmm.
Jam:Which is where all the structure is happening. Correct?
Melissa:Yes. Okay. That's where the magic happens.
Jam:Magic happening there. We've got All of these kind of support beam type things
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:That are doing most of the work Holding up this layer of skin to protect us from all the difficult and harmful things out in our world. Yeah. Most especially UV.
Melissa:That's right.
Jam:And when UV is beating down on us Mhmm. It starts to especially after years.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Starts to hurt that structure.
Jam:Yep.
Jam:The structure is these proteins, right,
Jam:which
Jam:is a polymer.
Melissa:Yep.
Jam:So Over time, that happens, and we could see it. And it's not just that we're old, but it's also that if we did not Protect ourselves that a different kind of arm happens to that structure
Melissa:That's right.
Jam:Beyond just what would happen naturally. So one of the best ways we can prevent that, which we've talked about in the past, is sunscreen. Mhmm. Just protecting ourselves in the 1st place from UV not being able to degrade the the polymer Right. The protein that is holding up our skin structure.
Melissa:Yep.
Jam:And it diffuses the the energy that's Beating down on us
Melissa:Right.
Jam:In a few different ways and to flex it away. Yeah. But, also, if we already have damage to our skin, which most of us probably already do. Yep. If you ever been outside, you probably have damage.
Jam:And that The best way to do that is to start to try to help that structure be stronger
Melissa:Yep.
Jam:And support Our layer of skin better?
Melissa:That's right.
Jam:And the way that scientists have discovered to do that is through Retinoids or Mhmm. Vitamin a
Jam:Mhmm.
Jam:Applied topically, but it's because then it needs to be able to be in the form of Stoutonic acid? What is it?
Melissa:Retinoic acid.
Jam:Retinoic acid.
Melissa:If you're in an organic chemistry class, that oic is the suffix that indicates the carboxylic acid group. So that's where that
Jam:comes from. Interesting. Okay. That's gotta be Retoic. Retinoic.
Jam:Retinoic. Man, dude. Retinoic.
Melissa:Yeah. You take out whatever you keep the main Chunk of the word Uh-huh. Take out the suffix and add oic. So Okay. Retinoid, retinol, retinoic.
Jam:Oh, got it. Okay. Sweet.
Melissa:And the the in between step is retinal Uh-huh. Which means it's an aldehyde.
Jam:Oh, wow.
Melissa:There's all kinds of All kinds of secret words in our language.
Jam:Okay. So retinoic acid. Mhmm. And what that does is Help the things that are already in our bodies
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Which you called
Melissa:Sounded made up.
Jam:Blasts.
Melissa:Fibroblast.
Jam:Fibroblast. Yes. Okay.
Melissa:Which is kinda funny. Like, they're blasting out the fibros that protect us or something. Yeah. Yeah.
Jam:It's like they just
Jam:have these, like almost like a spray gun of, like like, insulation or something like that where they're just kinda braying, Amber. So they help the fibroblasts be able to Do what they do more and better and which is to maintain and repair The structure which you called don't tell me. Just the c?
Melissa:Mhmm. That's the one of the proteins that makes it up.
Jam:I can't remember.
Melissa:It's collagen.
Jam:Collagen.
Melissa:Yeah. So I don't know if they repair the broken collagen or if they just produce more or really how they work.
Jam:Okay. Produce more.
Melissa:But there are more fibroblasts that I think produce those things. They also produce elastin. Okay. Collagen and elastin make up an Extracellular matrix.
Jam:Okay. And so when we can supply them with that, they do it better, which keeps the structure of skin healthier. Yep. And even if it's not repairing damaged stuff, it is creating new support beams, new structure
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:To keep it up. And then we look young forever.
Melissa:Not quite. Okay. That was a great explanation. One thing I thought of while you're talking was also kind of of a of a honeycomb.
Jam:Oh, yeah.
Melissa:And it the honeycomb gives the honey structure, but then when you Break it. It just starts to sag out, and you're like, that's what happens to your skin. It kind of sags down whatever. The matrix can't hold it in place anymore.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Or gets these Divots or whatever.
Jam:Which this kinda makes sense because, like, once you think about it I mean, even we can just kinda pull our skin around as much as we want to. And then it's kinda like, oh, yeah. What is really keeping it taught? Mhmm. Yeah.
Jam:It it makes it obvious that there's a need for a structure.
Melissa:Yeah. So oh, yeah. So that just occurred to my brain while you were explaining. I thought, that's kinda like honey where it just all So it makes it easier to think of an analogy when someone else is explaining it back to you. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. So okay. Here's my fun facts and warnings for you.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:It can take a long time for the retinol to make progress that we can see to our eyes.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So, actually, this dermatologist recommend you take a picture, wait several months and then take another picture and see the difference.
Jam:Okay. Nice.
Melissa:And you can see a little bit of a difference. I took a picture back In January Mhmm. I started using this product in April. I don't have other really good straight on pictures of my face. But So that's the only one I could compare it to, but I took one recently outside, and you could see the some reduction of the wrinkles that'd been caused by sun damage.
Melissa:That was kind of cool. Yeah. And they also says modest results. You're not gonna This isn't the fountain of youth Yeah. But it's going to help repair the damage that's been done and prevent further damage from things
Jam:that's been done. Nice.
Melissa:Also, you Have to be aware that retinoids, retinols can cause irritation.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Because part of what happens when your Skin is producing this collagen. They're making more cells. They're turning over faster, I think is how it works. I'm not exactly clear on this part, but the dermatologist talked a lot about the turnover of the skin cells is faster. So that means that your skin can get irritated.
Jam:Oh, I see.
Melissa:So you should consult with a doctor or physician if you're gonna take a prescription one, Or there's less intense over the counter ones, and they suggest building up. So use it once every 3 days and use it, then use it once every other day or something like that.
Jam:Okay. I see.
Melissa:But even if you just use a retinol once a week or retinoid once a week, that can still improve your collagen.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So it's not as if it's useless, and there's different percentages. You know, there's a 5% solution up to a 3% solution. You wanna start low and then work up high.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And if you initially get a little bit more acne or something like that, As long as it's not dangerous. Mhmm.
Jam:You know,
Melissa:if you're like, oh, this doesn't seem to be working. Don't give up. Try it for a longer period of time.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That's the recommendation. You should also use it at night.
Jam:K.
Melissa:Because UV light can photodegrade retinoids into something Damaging for our skin.
Jam:Oh, okay. So
Jam:you want there to be some time between you applying it and being the sun.
Melissa:Yes. Because You wanted to break down into retinoic acid that your skin can use, but the retinoids, they don't get that opportunity, could cause more damage than help.
Jam:Got it. Interesting.
Melissa:So the sun strikes again. Yeah. And last but not least, don't forget to wear sunscreen every single day.
Jam:Okay. Dang it.
Jam:Gotta find 1.
Melissa:You've gotta find 1. There's lots of options. This doctor, he's Really great. He has a bunch of different ones that he recommends
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That range from $10 for a bottle that'll last you 2 months or whatever to, really more expensive ones, but he finds value in all these different brands. But, yeah, he recommends every morning, you cleanse your face and apply sunscreen, and every evening, you sunscreen that moisturizes ideally. And then every evening, you Cleanse your face and apply a moisturizer. And then if you'd like to work on any kind of damage that's been done to your skin, that's where you'd incorporate a Retinol.
Jam:Got it. Got it. Okay.
Melissa:At nighttime so it doesn't break down. So I thought that was really interesting, And I wanted to, 1, spread the message about sunscreen
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And how UV light is responsible for the wrinkles that we see, Most of them, according to that 1 paper, 80%. Uh-huh. And then 2, give you guys some information about retinols because I, for a long time, thought that A lot of this stuff was just people pushing products that had no scientific backing. Uh-huh. But when I learned about these and I found So many papers about it.
Melissa:I mean, you'll see. I probably have 10 references here. This is a legitimate product that has been studied, and I got pretty excited. When things are backed by science, I'm excited. Yeah.
Melissa:So Yeah. This is very cool.
Jam:Dude, that's awesome.
Jam:Sweet.
Melissa:Sweet. Well, you have anything fun from your week? You wanna report back?
Jam:Yeah. Totally. Obviously. So A small little fun thing from my week this past week is that my little son, who's not quite a year, we started taking him to swim lessons.
Melissa:Oh my gosh. So cute.
Jam:Yes. Very cute. Very fun at this swim school that we have a friend who works there. But Mhmm. Very cool philosophy, and they're all about certain kids pretty early, partly so they can, also, just not be afraid of the water and have fun.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And enjoy and quickly have an experience of fun and being protected in the water.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And also at the same time, be teaching them the things that will help them survive.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:So it's pretty great. And he had a lot of fun, and we'll be doing that every week. So I'm sure that And Tim, I don't have anything more substantial this year. I'll probably just share about whatever cute thing he did in swim lessons, but that was that was pretty fun. It was just cool to watch him kinda, like, be in the water, and I'm just holding him the whole time, but he just loves to splash around and stuff.
Jam:So that was really fun.
Melissa:That is really fun and cute. We all need a little uplifting baby's warning stories. And that's really important because drowning is a leading cause of death, I think, in children. Right? I think Your wife told me that.
Jam:Yeah. It's in the top I don't think it's the top one, but it's, like, the top, like, 4 or 5 Yeah. Causes of death. So
Melissa:And some of that is from distraction from parents, and some of it is from not knowing how to swim. So that's a really good thing that you guys are doing.
Jam:And we have a pool, so that's I should've said that.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:That's why it's also really important to us because he is gonna be more have a higher chance of the downsides of that than other kids would. So
Melissa:Yeah. Definitely. And I remember them teaching Edison to climb out of a pool if he fell in or something.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And I was amazed because he couldn't even walk Yeah. And he was able to safely exit a pool and Yeah. Not be scared if that happened. You know? He just knew right what to do.
Jam:Yeah. They talk they talk about how, like, a a panic sets in, and, typically, kids, they fall in.
Jam:Mhmm. And
Jam:they're still kind of afloat. Panic starts in, and they will start to go toward whatever wall they're kinda facing.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Especially because you're you know, they're young. Talking like, you know, pre pretty young kids. So keeping them super early just to turn around because they're they just fell in. There's a wall right behind them they can reach onto immediately. But the panic, the system starts to they'll go further into the water and further away from the wall that's right by them.
Jam:So especially being around, like, my son's age, a he's just around 1, so It'd be it makes sense for him maybe not to think about turning around.
Melissa:Yeah. So
Jam:building that in early to be like, hey. Just flip around, and you can grab onto
Jam:this wall. So
Melissa:And not have the panic. Yeah. This has happened a 1000000 times. I know what I'm supposed to do. Can I?
Melissa:Yep. Wow. That's really incredible. Kids are so smart.
Jam:Yes. They're very smart. What about you? What happened in your week?
Melissa:Well, mine's not as cute, but, my my dad's dad is not doing very well. Unfortunately, he's, gone home on hospice. And so that's a hard time, but I got to see him last night, which not everybody gets that chance. And He was still with it enough to know who I was. Good.
Melissa:He made a few jokes, and he got to meet my husband for the 1st time. And so, You know, with COVID and everything, it's been really hard to see him safely and not feel like we're putting him in danger. And so
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It was really nice to be able to go and get to spend time with him and, just, you know, have be there and have that special time. So K. That was a really sweet thing that happened this week.
Jam:That's good. But also sorry about his health not being good. That sucks.
Melissa:He's pretty old. So he's had a good life, and, you know, I think it's maybe just kind of time. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, Once you get past 80, you're like, this is incredible.
Melissa:That's so much life to live, and I think he's close to 90.
Jam:So Wow. Wow.
Melissa:So that was, yeah, that was really nice. But, yeah, it is kind of a bummer. It was sad for my dad. You know? It's been Mhmm.
Melissa:It's been a year since her mom passed away, but that's still really soon when you're grieving a spouse, so I think Yeah. It's kind of a lot. But he, you know, he had a really good life, and so that's something that we can take comfort in. Well, thanks, Jam, for learning about sunscreen and retinoids and agreeing to go out and find you something to protect your Skin.
Jam:Dude, yeah. Anytime. Thanks for telling me before it's too late. You know?
Melissa:And thanks to all of you listeners for coming and learning about chemistry. It's so fun that we get to do this and Share chemistry of everyday life with you guys and share what science is actually saying about things that we literally put on our face every day. So thanks for that So much I love this, and I'm so thankful we get to do this.
Jam:Yes. Me too. And thank you guys for the ideas you guys send in. Like, this topic today, Sort of inspired or asked by Vienette, but also Mhmm. Inspired by Darby.
Jam:And so we have a lot of ideas like this that come from you guys, that come from Melissa, that come from wherever. But you have any of those kind of questions or ideas, please send them to us because they end up creating really relevant episodes, things you you actually wonder about in your everyday life that helps chemistry be part of your life, not just this other separate distant kind of study that's not connected to everyday life. So Right. Please reach out to us on Gmail, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at Kim for your life. That's Kim, f o r, your life, to share your thoughts and ideas.
Jam:If you'd like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, go to kodashfi.com/chem for your life and donate the cost of a cup of coffee. If you're not able to donate, you can still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast app and rating and writing our review on Apple Podcasts. That really helps us to be able to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Colini and Jam Robinson. References for this episode can be found in our show notes or on our website. Jam Robinson is our producer, and we'd like to give a special thanks to In Noel and s Navarro who reviewed this episode.
