Bonus: Why is caffeine in shampoo? (and other questions)
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life bonus edition.
Melissa:Bonus edition, baby. This one was we got so many good questions that are answerable in a bonus episode.
Jam:Nice. That's great. I love
Melissa:it when that happens.
Jam:Sometimes we get great questions that are almost too great, and they can't be answered in one moment.
Melissa:And, actually, the episodes we're recording in the next few weeks all came Came from bonus question
Jam:solicitations. Nice. Okay. Cool.
Melissa:This is kind of an exciting one.
Jam:Okay. Sweet. Very cool.
Melissa:I guess I'm always excited. I've noticed how much I say that now, but every time I'm writing an episode, I'm like, I'm so excited. Yeah. So maybe I need to come up with a new word, but this one was good. Okay?
Jam:So, yeah, you probably know already if you're here, but this is where we answer your questions. The questions at the end of every episode, we always say, like, hey. Send us your questions. This is where we put a lot of them that are answerable in a short amount of time.
Melissa:Yep.
Jam:Some of them, like, Melissa just said a 2nd ago, turn into full episodes.
Melissa:But I try to do no research for them. That's one of my deals with myself to save our time as these are questions I can answer off
Jam:As you say.
Melissa:I got that from Miriam.
Jam:Oh, nice. Nice.
Melissa:Who never listens to this show even though she loves to ask good chemistry questions.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So she'll never know that I stole that from her.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Well, do you wanna get started with our questions?
Jam:Yes. Let's do it. Let's start with this question from someone I've known for a long time, my friend Joey, who I used to live with.
Melissa:I really like Joey. He's really nice, and he's drawn Art for the show before.
Jam:That's right. He drew the little Kim heads, thing, which is, like, these really cool drawings of my head and Melissa's head.
Melissa:My sister loves those, The that mug with our heads on it.
Jam:Yeah. I was also just impressed. Like, I was like, I can tell that's definitely my head. That's definitely miss his head. It's so Obvious.
Melissa:Yeah. He even put my hair on one side, which I do a lot.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. I was very impressed.
Jam:So, anyway, Joey, of Kim Head's fame asks, why is there caffeine in a lot of shampoos? What is it supposed to do?
Melissa:Joey, I love that you asked me this question because it gives me an opportunity to talk about one of my favorite things, which is dermatology. So I Watch a lot of videos from doctor Shah.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:He's the dermatologist. I think his channel is called Doctor. Lee. And part of what I like about doctor Shah is that he will cite peer reviewed journal articles, and he has them pop up on his YouTube video.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And he did an episode on hair stuff. I don't remember what the category of it was, but I remember him saying in that episode That caffeine stimulates oh, I know. It was if you ever wanna look it up, we won't I can link to it maybe. We don't usually put references on our q and r's, but He was reviewing some products from brand called The Ordinary, and they have a caffeine solution.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And they talked about how caffeine stimulates The follicle to grow hair.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:And so it's not I don't think it's if the follicle has stopped producing hair the way like Rogaine works.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But it just encourages hair growth for hair that's already there.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:And They talked about how they'll put it in shampoos, and that probably does have some effect, but also it's possible that leaving it on your hair is better. So, like, putting it on your scalp. And they talked about how even though that product wasn't labeled for that, that would be an interesting use of it, this caffeine solution. And so they mentioned the caffeine shampoos. And then you asked this question, and I had the opportunity to bring that up in my brain.
Jam:Nice. Nice.
Melissa:Oh, can I tell you something similar to this that made me really exciting that happened last night at dinner?
Jam:Yeah. Absolutely.
Melissa:Okay. So one of our friends we went out to, eat for for one of our friends' birthdays, and I made a chocolate raspberry cake.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:It's my signature.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And Our friends asked about what was in it because they said they're allergic to chocolate. And I said, what in chocolate bothers you? And she said, I actually don't know, but milk Chocolate is worse than if I use, like, cocoa powder at home. And then I said, that's interesting. And then she said, I'm only allergic to 2 things, Chocolate and pineapples.
Melissa:Isn't that so random? And I got so excited because That's not random.
Jam:Ah. Can
Melissa:you guess what might be in chocolate and pineapples? We did a episode all about it.
Jam:Yeah. We did, didn't we,
Melissa:Well, it's okay. I can tell you. And here's the reason I knew it Uh-huh. Is because I'd watch Rhett and Link sometimes.
Jam:Oh, yeah. Me too, actually.
Melissa:They did an episode where they they use this food science pairing thing where They find similar molecules that are in different foods, and they pair them together, and they taste good together even though you might not expect it.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And they did blue cheese and pineapple. And blue cheese and pineapple both have butyric acid, which is also in American chocolate.
Jam:Oh, right. Because that was different between American chocolate and other chocolates. Right? Yes. Yeah.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And when she said pineapple and chocolate, something went off in my brain, and I was, like, going through my brain files and was like, Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Melissa:I think I know what those 2 things have in common. Is it true? Does pineapple have butyric acid in it? Which I wouldn't have known if it wasn't for the episode of Good Mythical Morning. Yeah.
Melissa:And so it all connected, and I got really, really excited. So shout out Rhett and Link and also to the chocolate episode. That was really fun.
Jam:Dude, that is so cool and so interesting. And, also, I wanna say too that I forgot to say a second ago, I had no idea Caffeine was in shampoo at all. Good on you, Joey, for, like, looking at the label Yeah. For shampoo. Well, I probably looked at the labels of mine too, but just Have skipped past it, been looking for specific things.
Jam:Never once noticed there's caffeine.
Melissa:Well and something that is fun for me is when knowledge that I didn't necessarily find on purpose ends up being helpful. So just from watching this dermatologist talk about dermatology and watching Rhett and Link be ridiculous, I got to Answer people's questions, and it almost makes me feel like the time I waste on the Internet is not wasted.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Right. Because I'm learning. Yeah. 100%. So thanks, Joey, and also Hannah, who we had that conversation with.
Jam:Nice. Okay. This next question is from doctor Moon, Which is a real person. Doctor Moon's real. Sounds like a Marvel character, but
Melissa:It really does. I and doctor Moon's often told us we can call her by her first name, but I like to give credit where credit's due.
Jam:I do too. And, also, it just sounds so cool. Yeah. Credit's due. She is a doctor, but also when her name is doctor Moon
Melissa:It's really cool.
Jam:It's just especially cool. So doctor Moon asked, Do all ADHD medicines work the same way as Adderall?
Melissa:Okay, doctor Moon. So, technically, actually, doctor Moon did ask ask about ADD, but I wanted to say that I think ADD doesn't exist anymore. They've changed it to where there's a spectrum of ADHD, where there's of ADHD where there's hyperactive and inattentive type. So that's just something I learned about when I was doing some research Because I would've assumed I had ADHD, but I or I would've assumed I have ADD, but actually I have inattentive type ADHD.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:They just changed that. But I will say, I don't know if they all work the same, but I know that Ritalin, for example, also has a monoamine. And I think if they're trying to work in the same way of prompting the brain to make more dopamine that, yes, that it would Most likely be a monoamine with that Benzene ring on one side. And also, Bridget tweeted, and I retweeted this, we had had a conversation about why dopamine you can't just take dopamine.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And Bridget said it can't cross the the blood brain barrier If you just take that pill, and I think that's right.
Jam:Oh, interesting.
Melissa:That that sounds vaguely familiar. So you have to take things orally that can get into your brain, And that just taking dopamine wouldn't do that.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:So both of those things are really interesting. I think there might be some that Try to treat it with a different mechanism.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Because I know that you have to be really careful if you're pregnant or breastfeeding and you take that medicine. And I have a friend who has recommended a another different one, but I did not look into the mechanism. So I can't answer that effectively, except I know that Ritalin is a monomene, and I would expect those monomines to function similarly.
Jam:Interesting. It's a
Melissa:good question. Good thoughts, doctor Moon, and good thoughts, Bridget too.
Jam:This next question is from Marlene, and Marlene asks, since I can see your grill, How does cooking meat work from a chemistry standpoint?
Melissa:Well, Marlene, I have to admit that that wasn't my grill. I'm honored that you think that we're that fancy.
Jam:Was this, He
Melissa:was on Instagram.
Jam:Oh, on the chimp story when you ask for questions?
Melissa:Yeah. So I've been putting fun backgrounds on them, and I put one of me relaxing Uh-huh. At Mason's grandparents' house, and they have a very nice backyard setup. They own a pool company. So they
Jam:I see.
Melissa:They don't Pull any punches on their backyard side, but they have a nice grill. And there's this beautiful view of trees, and so I took a picture of that and put it on Instagram. Yeah. A lot of action happens on the Instagram, so go check it out. Give us a follow if you want more content.
Melissa:But so Shout out Mason's grandparents for your beautiful backyard. I love hanging out there. I think what happens with cooking meat, and we haven't looked into this Typically, what we talked a lot about proteins and heat and also the Maillard reaction.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So I think that the proteins get denatured, And that's also part of what brings it up to a safe temperature as any bacteria in there also is killed. And then for that nice, like, crust that forms, I believe that is the Maillard reaction that forms that browning polymer on top, and we did a whole episode on that called why just toast get toast.
Jam:Right. And it's has has that reaction I mean, no. We've talked about polymers a ton. Mhmm. Like, that's reaction has come up a couple other times since then,
Melissa:but I can't
Jam:remember for sure.
Melissa:I don't remember where. But anytime we talk about Posting things. But that is different than caramelizing Right. Which is sugars reacting with each other. I think they also make a polymer, but my art is specifically, I think it's amino acids.
Melissa:It's a type of protein reacting with a type of sugar. If I remember correctly, That was probably a year and a half ago or more than we did that. So Yeah. That was a good question, Marlene. Thanks for asking.
Jam:This next question is from Elena, and she asks, what is your view on microplastics? Well, we're a huge fan. Here at Coacheco Life, we are big supporters, big fans of microplastics.
Melissa:So microplastics is this idea that there are very Small, like, microscopic bits of plastic that are present in the environment as a result of really the breakdown of plastic sort of, but it's not Chemically breaking down, just physically breaking down into smaller and smaller pieces.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And these can form for example, fleece, a lot of people don't know, is actually made of plastic Yeah. And carpet and things like that. And when you wash and dry clothes that have plastics in them, small fragments can break off, and then those, become embedded in the environment, and they found them, I think, even in human placenta, which
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:Yeah. I think I think. Don't quote me on that. But I really wanted to do research on microplastics and do a follow-up episode to our plastic series on what the actual harm is. My initial response is plastic is not great, and we really need to I mean, this basically goes back to the plastic episode, but we really need to do everything we can to be good stewards of the earth that we're on and protect the environment for our futures and our children's futures and their Children's futures?
Melissa:Yeah. And plastics are not it, man. They are not good for the environment. And it's hard in the world that we're in to completely reduce your usage. I think that's important.
Melissa:I think it's even more important to elect lawmakers and and Convince our government of the importance of regulating those things because industries are actually some of the biggest contributors to this problem. We can't change the clothing industry. Right? They're gonna keep doing what they're doing. We can't change the way food's packaged.
Melissa:They're gonna keep doing what they're doing unless there's a better option financially or unless they're required to change. And
Jam:Right.
Melissa:As much as I think too much government oversight isn't great, I think that there needs to be an intervention when there's Large profits involved to compel those companies to do what's best for those who come after us.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And, I mean, it's hard. It's a really hard thing, but I overall think less plastics is better. And I think the fact that microplastics are embedded in our environment is probably a new reality, and I don't think there's been a ton of research on how it's actually going to impact our health. But As a byproduct of the way that we live now, I think it's, gonna be a reality for a while, but Mason and I try very hard in our home to use plastics as little as possible. If we try to buy toilet paper that's wrapped in paper Yeah.
Melissa:We use a bidet to minimize the amount of, like, disposable products we have to use. We, Instead of buying plastic sponges, we actually get these these cloths called Goi pads
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:That are cloth coated in a natural resin, I believe, that are compostable. Like, it's impossible. There's It's impossible to be perfect, but there are ways to reduce. And so we try to do that, but, actually, I think even more important is the is the big picture and changing the system.
Jam:Breck, it's like it's unfortunate there's so few incentives right now for a big company to change what they're doing. Like, polyester is in so many Like, most fabrics or whatever Yeah. Like, have some sort of blend or whatever. And that's what's more available. So Right.
Jam:All of us are gonna buy. Like, most people are gonna buy what's available.
Melissa:And if you have the finances to vote with your dollar, you should do that. Right? Buy food that's not in plastic. Buy products that are in plastic, buy products that don't have polyester in them. Yeah.
Melissa:But a lot of people financially aren't able to do that. So there has to be some kind of incentive to get people to to choose to do the most environmentally friendly thing, and there's not that right now.
Jam:Right. Like, if corporations decide that Yeah. If you're a hemp or something like that. And then that's what we would all buy. Right.
Jam:You know?
Melissa:And then there's challenges too that then if you're using hemp or cotton or whatever, You wanna make sure that you're even treating the environment right in the way that you're growing it. So there's a lot of challenges. It's just really hard to change an isolated thing in a system.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And we actually talked a lot about that with my dissertation research. So I think organic chemistry needs to be changed, but it's hard to change organic chemistry If you're not changing everything else too. Right? So, it's just it's really difficult to make change in the system and especially a system where people stand to make a lot of money, and those people who make a lot of money have a lot of influence. It's just unfortunate.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And it's hard to know even how to make moves.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:But thanks for asking, Ali. And I am trying to do and looking forward to doing a Microplastics episode in the future.
Jam:This next question is from Alex. Alex asks, what has been your favorite topic to research slash learn about?
Melissa:Do you wanna answer this one first, Jan? I well, he said research slash learn, but I was assuming he meant for the episode. Like, Not the research I do where I'm generating new information, but the research I do where I gather information that other people have done for this show.
Jam:Right. Right. This is such a hard question because
Melissa:It is.
Jam:I mean, we talk about we've different has been asked, like, what is a favorite episode of ours or whatever. What I just thought about recently that I hadn't thought about in a little while that was super interesting was the episode about Mirages.
Melissa:Oh, yeah.
Jam:And how that works and stuff. And there's so many other ones I mentioned like onions and cast iron, all those that have Oh,
Melissa:I love all those
Jam:too. And caffeine, that one's super interesting too.
Melissa:Oh, yeah. The musical chairs. Right? Yeah.
Jam:But I really I thought a few times, like, it's starting to get Again, you know, obviously, here in Texas. And seeing the mirages again
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:For the first time in a while, it's been like, Oh, yeah. That's the chemistry in the way that the light and all that stuff is so interesting. And so that episode came to my mind recently and was very fascinating.
Melissa:Oh, that was a good one. I had totally forgotten about that. And that's what's crazy about how long we've been doing this is there are episodes that we've done that I've already forgotten what We did.
Jam:Yeah. You did. Totally.
Melissa:Yeah. For mine, I really do love the plastics one. That's changed my life significantly. I think as a chemist, impressed upon me the weight of what chemists the power that chemists have to change the world for good and bad. And that's really that was really heartbreaking to me, but the other one I think about a lot actually is the what happens to eggs when you cook Them episode?
Jam:Oh, yeah.
Melissa:We don't give that one very much credit, but do you have this really good analogy where he talked about boards or Christmas lights or whatever, and he talked about how he'll if you don't keep them all separate and wrapped up, then they hang on to this big mat mess, and I do that a lot. And every time that happens and I pull out my cords and they're a big mess, I think about chemistry. And it's Fun when someone plants a thing in my mind that I didn't put in there, and then I connect chemistry. But I also really enjoyed the ADHD one recently and have gotten so many people reaching out about how that's impacting their live, and that's really special. Yeah.
Melissa:Also, episode. There's a lot of really good ones that we've done. So
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It's hard to pick a favorite, but I have really enjoyed learning about all these topics, and that's been something that's made me remember why I love chemistry is doing this podcast. So
Jam:Yeah. Very cool. Very good question. This next question is from Peyton. Peyton asks, Crystallography states that all pure substances form crystals.
Jam:How do noble gases crystallize?
Melissa:Okay. That's a good question. We don't talk about gases a ton on here.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Noble gases already have 8 electrons. So they don't really need to react with things. They're known as inert gases. They don't They have what they need, and they're not really interested in interacting much. And their gas is at room temperature As is in the name.
Melissa:So this is kind of a hard question to answer. I think they would crystallize. I think they would because here's the thing. It's difficult. Right?
Melissa:Because don't know how they'd interact with each other to come together to crystallize. But because they're a pure substance, I think they would, but they would Only do so at a cold, cold temperature because they have to go all the way through the phases. They would have to become liquid and then crystallize from liquid to gas if my understanding of crystallization is correct. So I think I think that they would crystallize, but I don't know. I would love to hear from someone who is a crystallography expert or who spends a lot of time studying about Gases, who knows more than I do, but my instinct is that they would probably crystallize at very cold temperatures, But their natural state is to be gases, so I don't think they really wanna do other things.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So that's that was a fun question for me to think about. I was like, wait. If things have 8 electrons, how does that work? Because a lot of crystal Trues, come from ionic salt. You know?
Melissa:So one has lost electrons, one's gained electrons, and then they hang out near each other, and they make what's called a lattice. And other crystals form by the way that molecules stack on top of each other or they they form in a specific way or Crystal in snow or ice. It's the way that the oxygen are shaped when they interact with each other. Uh-huh. The oxygens wanna be the hydrogens because it's polar.
Melissa:We talked about that in this snowflake episode. So I don't know how Just an atom with 8 electrons around it would wanna interact with other atoms. Mhmm. So it's a hard question, but it was And I don't have an answer, and I don't do research for these episodes. So I didn't wanna go look it up because, you know, it's a shorter episode, but I enjoyed the thought exercise of what would happen.
Melissa:So if y'all have thoughts or answers off the top of your head, we wanna hear them. Good question, Payton.
Jam:That's super interesting. That's the kind of question I would never have thought of, obviously. Yes. You have have some chemistry knowledge to even think of it.
Melissa:Yeah. Me neither. I would have no I never would have thought about that.
Jam:So that
Melissa:was a good question.
Jam:This next question is from Bordeaux b. That's the username on Instagram. Do you know of a good source for research on high school chemistry education?
Melissa:That is a great question. So there's 2 sort of types of education research. There's there's education research like I do, and then there's scholarship of learning and teaching, Which is people talking about the practices that have worked in their classrooms is my understanding, although I don't know a 100% what goes into that. But both types of those papers are published in journals that I trust, 2 main journals that I trust. 1 is the Journal of Chemical Education, And the other is chemistry education research and practice.
Melissa:Now I have access to those articles through my university, but I don't know If all schools have that, so I don't know how you could find them, but there is a lot of chemistry education research focused in high school, Especially scholarship of learning and teaching research that's focused in high school that you could find in there Mhmm. Or breast best practices or things like that. But my expertise is more in higher education, and that is the work that I've looked at most. So when I see those high school populations, I'm actually Not interested in them, so I haven't focused on them. But I would start with those 2 journals.
Melissa:And sometimes what you can do is actually find someone who specializes in that area, and then go look at other papers that they've written. That could be really interesting. And there's a lot also on General chemistry, which has a very similar curriculum, 1st year college general chemistry has a very similar curriculum to high school chemistry, especially AP.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So that there's a lot of overlap there. So I would I would start looking at those things. And then if you find an educator who's really good, You could reach out to them. But this brings up something that I wish that we had in our field. So we've had Renee on as an expert before.
Melissa:My sister, Renee, her she also recently got her doctorate doctor the other doctor Collini, one of the other doctor Collinis. Her work is extension, which means she takes the research that's been done by a scientist and brings it to the people who need to know about it, the called stakeholders who are trying to developments or this or that, and they need to know about the research that's been done in sea level rise. But they're not scientists, so they can't translate it.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:It's almost like a form of science communication, but it's specifically communicating science that they need to know.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And I firmly believe that chemistry education needs extension people who have studied chemistry education research, who understand the field, and who can take that and bring it through Shops, conferences, whatever to educators and help prepare them. And there is some of that at conferences, But most high school teachers don't have the resources to go to that kind of conference, you know, where there's not always funding for Lecturers who aren't doing research to go to those conferences. So I feel like mostly we're sharing that information with other chemistry education researchers, which is great.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But we should be able to extend that beyond. So I believe and wish and want someone to hire me to do the job of Extension Mhmm. Which would mean I could take some chemistry education research and communicate it to the people who really need to know and who are making changes like Policymakers, educators, those kinds of people. Yeah. So I'm glad you asked that question so that I could Have a chance to talk about the fact that I believe that a position needs to exist that doesn't.
Jam:That's good. Okay. This one's interesting also. This question's from Aspen. There is a silver solution spray that kills germs.
Jam:Why do people think it works?
Melissa:Okay, Aspen. Here's something interesting. Silver is actually well known as an antimicrobial agent. It does kill germs. I don't know why it kills germs.
Melissa:And, again, I try not to do research for these episodes, but that is well documented. So that's probably why people think it works. And, actually, there's a US senator who don't do this, but he believed that by ingesting silver, He could somehow be a healthier person, but doctors don't recommend that. And the reason why is because You will turn a pale shade of blue if you consistently adjust silver.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So you could look up this senator who ate silver and turned blue because he thought it would help him be healthier. I think he might have been a little bit of a conspiracy theorist. That also, again, brings us back to the question of, like, think carefully about who you're electing to do to advocate for science.
Jam:How long do you end up being blue if you do that?
Melissa:I think it might be for the rest of your life.
Jam:No way.
Melissa:But I don't know for sure. I haven't looked this up for a long time. But you can look him up, and you can tell that it's not like he's Royal blue, like the blueberry on on Willy Wonka. It's not like that.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:It's like roughly the shade of this water bottle, which I realized y'all Can't see, but Jam can see. I got
Jam:Super pale blue.
Melissa:Yeah. A Nalgene bottle that's seafoam that's super pale blue. I feel like It's roughly that. And you can look it up. All you have to do is go and type in US senator
Jam:Blue. Senator Smurf, I think was that yeah. Any adjective for that kind of unfortunate, like, last name like that?
Melissa:I looked it up quickly. His name is Stan Jones, I believe.
Jam:Dana, it's so crazy.
Melissa:But, yeah, he's blue. I mean, you really oh, there's a American Chemical Society article about it. So maybe one day I'll maybe one day I'll, do a whole episode about that. I don't know if it's for there's other people who have Turn darker blue by ingesting more, I think. So, yeah, go look it up.
Melissa:It's a fun rabbit hole to go down, but that's probably why people think Yeah. But I don't know if that specific spray works. I it would depend. I think there is a lot of not factual evidence in the Silver products that people make. They just use this claim that it's antimicrobial and don't look into it, but I don't know about that specific one.
Jam:K. Very interesting. Bridget asks, do you have any sci comm figures you look up to? It's so weird, Bridget. We don't, And also also doesn't.
Melissa:I don't. And that's. No. I do. I think Jam does too.
Melissa:The scikon figures that I look up to are people who are actually scientists in that they've contributed to the field or studied it, Usually at an advanced level or that they lift up scientists who have done that. So people who have contributed to scientific research and understand some of those gray areas, and then they communicate science based on that or people who know the importance of lifting up the voices of Others. So Radiolab, I think, does a great job of taking especially the early episodes. Yeah. Taking scientific research, interviewing scientists, and asking them to talk about their research in a very interesting way.
Melissa:Yeah. I also think Ologies does something similarly. That's a podcast by Allie Ward, and she also interviews a lot of women scientists and scientists who are
Jam:People of color,
Melissa:a huge variety of people Uh-huh. Especially some of her earlier episodes. So that's a really good one. And this podcast will kill you is Similar to our podcast, actually, except with an emphasis on biology. Yeah.
Melissa:And it's 2 biologists. But they were grad students when they started, Just like I was when I started, and now I believe they're both doctors. So that's an opportunity for you to actually listen to scientists talk about their own work, which that is type of science communication, I think we need. Yeah. I think we need people who can help interpret the scientists or scientists who are good at communicating about their work because They have a a deep understanding.
Melissa:On Twitter, there's Raven the Science Maven. She does some cool stuff. And then Alan ALDA has a foundation for science research and does a lot of document narrates a lot of documentaries Uh-huh. Where they talk about science, so that's a cool one too.
Jam:That's really cool. I did not know he had a foundation about that.
Melissa:Yes. The Allen Aldo Foundation. I've looked into possibly working there at some point because I'll work anywhere. If anyone wants Hire me for any kind of job. I mean, I have 1 for a year, but after that, if you wanna hire me, I'm interested Any science communication advocacy nonprofit, I wanna do it.
Jam:This is a hard question because you obviously know a lot more I mean, you, like, Keep an eye out for sci comm people and look up to them in that way.
Melissa:Like Right.
Jam:That's the phrase that kind of changes things for me. That could be, like, interested in Yeah. Entertained by and whatever else. But the look up to
Melissa:I shifted it from look up to maybe to admire or respect. Yeah. So that kinda made it easier. Totally. Yeah.
Jam:I think you already said the one that's kinda the main one for me is just that I've been a big RadioLab fan forever and have listened to it some, like, early They I don't know. They went on for a long time before they were podcasters to radio program and stuff. But, at some point in, like, 2011 is when I started listening to them. It's still very, like, heavy on the science side of it.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And love to get into here straight from The scientists Yep. And a lead from Radiolab that ended up being really interested in a specific, Expert that they have on the show sometimes, a neurologist named Oliver Sacks.
Melissa:Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's got a good
Jam:He has great books. I read one of his books and loved it so much, I gifted it to 2 different people. Yeah. Meaning I bought the a different book them, didn't give them my copy.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah.
Jam:But to in my mind, that always says a lot when I'm like, I love a book enough, and I think more than once that somebody else would love it too.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And so Oliver Sacks, super fascinating guy. Loved getting to hear straight from him on RadioLab. And that happened for a bunch of people, For sure that I really enjoyed hearing from. He's one that stuck out enough for me that I was like, oh, I'm gonna go look at other things he did
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:As a casual listener myself and not a scientist. And so those are that's kinda my one example, Oliver Sacks slash Radiolab.
Melissa:And that again, they just do a really good job of Helping the scientists speak for themselves. And so there's some other science communicators who maybe speak on behalf of the scientists or don't Uplift scientific voices, and I try to I really want the sign I wanna hear from a scientist. Right? Because Representation is so important, and it's so exciting. One of my favorite episodes of Ologies was there's someone who does, lizards.
Melissa:She studies geckos, I think. Uh-huh. And it was so exciting to hear from that graduate student about their niche. I love listening to experts talk about their field Because they have a perspective that's deeper Yeah. Than people who aren't experts.
Melissa:And I just think that's really beautiful. Right? And so That that is what I tend to try to move towards is people who uplift the scientists themselves, especially underrepresented populations or Populations that have historically had a hard time pushing forward in STEM. Those are the people that I really wanna advocate for as good science communicators. Yeah.
Melissa:This next question I'm gonna ask because I love asking Jim this question. Jim, what are your favorite sports teams? That's
Jam:such a good question for me specifically.
Melissa:Those of you who've been with us since the beginning know the answer already, But Jam has not had a chance to go off on this tangent in a while.
Jam:That's very true. Yeah. It can it has happened, but just not in a long time. But I don't like sports, especially not professional sports teams. They're
Melissa:Jim likes playing sports, though. Squash. Don't you play squash? What's that 1?
Jam:Racquetball.
Melissa:Racquetball. Yeah. Squash. That's it.
Jam:I was like, that's interesting. That would be cool. I'll try it. I I play some sports, and I think it's fun to play a game with some people. I have problems with fierce competition and don't think it is as beneficial for people as people think it is.
Jam:And I don't I just just anecdotal. It's not like a thing I've studied. But I Don't like or or support or believe in professional sports. They're like, Basically, just a business. I mean, it's
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:They'd all all the players change out. It's just a logo and advertisement deals
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And the culture around it, it's not a moral issue for me as much as it is. Like, I don't like it, and There's nothing about it that draws me into it. And most of the reasons people have aren't reasons I have. You know?
Melissa:Right. Yeah. Like, for me, it's a place where I connect with my dad and my brother. We all Yeah. Love hockey, so we like to talk about it, and it's fun.
Melissa:It's a way to connect in my family that is really fun and valuable, I think.
Jam:Yeah. And in most of my upbringing, it was actually a way of avoiding connection. It was like Yes. You know, uncle or grandpa has the game on, but we're all there for Thanksgiving, but no one's talking or catching up. It's like
Melissa:Right.
Jam:Just the game's on instead. And you could actually fill in the blank about that with anything. You know? Right. It doesn't have to just be sports.
Jam:So I don't have that. But I I do have a lot of There are some moral problems with it. Like the NFL, for instance, easy to have. Right. CTE and other problems that have come out of, like, the neurology and the damage.
Jam:But, it's just it's nice fuel for the flame for me. It's like, I already don't like it. Be
Melissa:mad about stuff.
Jam:Yeah. I already don't like it. I already don't connect with there. I don't get a lot of benefit from it. And then also, I'm I hear about a thing like, wait.
Jam:People are getting harmed. Like, okay. There we go. You know?
Melissa:Now I have a reason to be mad.
Jam:Yeah. But keep your sports. Keep your stuff. I'm not trying to take it away from you.
Melissa:Jan and Jam is not opposed to physical activity. I feel like that's important to state.
Jam:That's right.
Melissa:He's excited for me when I do ice skating. He plays games that allow him to connect with other people. He plays Disc golf.
Jam:Yeah. Me and my friend and neighbor, Oren, used to play tennis once a week Oh. Before he had his 2nd kid. So To be physically active, all good things. You know?
Melissa:I am a big Dallas Stars fan. I think everybody knows that. I love hockey.
Jam:But you haven't talked about that in a while too, which is not
Melissa:haven't talked about that in a while because when I was getting married, I had a lot of big distractions. I was barely staying afloat in my schedule. So hockey went to the wayside. And then this year, again, hockey went to the wayside because of my dissertation. So I haven't had a lot of free time.
Melissa:Yeah. But, actually, the Day I turned in my dissertation, the next day I went with my dad and my brother at a hockey game to celebrate. Yeah. Well, not necessarily to celebrate that. Just As a we've wanted to go together for a while, and that was a really, really fun time with them.
Melissa:I love that so much.
Jam:And also you had, like you just turned it in so you had time. It was like, I could actually take It was I could take the evening and go.
Melissa:One of the only things I did to to take time, and then I went right back into preparing for my defense.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:There was a One day window where I spent time with my family, so that was really nice. And I also really like there's a Canadian Ice skating duo that does incredible work. They've broken up now. Uh-huh. They're Tessa Virtue and Scott Moyer.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:And they're just really good at ice skating. It's fun to watch them. I don't know. That doesn't count as a team. But so I really like to watch people be skilled Things is a thing I'm realizing that I really love, and they're really, really good at
Jam:ice skating.
Melissa:So those are some of my favorite sports things to watch. That's why John Klingberg is my favorite player. He's really good at, this is so specific, but skating backwards well. He almost skates more like an ice skater to me than a hockey player.
Jam:Oh, interesting.
Melissa:I mean, like a figure skater.
Jam:Right. Right. Right. Yeah.
Melissa:So the that's what I like. I like watching that skill, man. It's fun.
Jam:That's interesting.
Melissa:Was a good question, Sam. We both love talking about those things.
Jam:Yes. Definitely. For very different reasons, but thank you for asking it. And this next question, oh, interesting. Renee asks, what chemical is the most misunderstood?
Melissa:I think chemicals are misunderstood, period. So I don't know that there's one that's the most misunderstood. That's like a pariah or something that people hate. Yeah. I just think people say chemical to mean bad things, and they don't think about the fact that literally Really, everything is make made up of atoms and molecules, and that's basically what a chemical is.
Melissa:That that there's there's not That nothing that's a chemical is inherently bad. Yeah. And even some things that are chemicals are good in small doses, like Fluoride is good in small doses and bad in big doses. Right? So or water, you can die from taking in too much water.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But if you don't take in enough, you can also die. Right? Yeah. So I think that's what people don't understand or what people Use to fear monger?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:I'll try to think about if there's 1 big one that people just
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:But I think it's more a general misunderstanding of what Chemical means. Right. Like, I've heard that thing that, oh, apple is oh, it is like not an apple. Maybe some kind of candy is 1 molecule away from paint or you know? You're like, what does that even mean?
Melissa:Right. So I think that's my biggest thing that feels misunderstood. I started that series March Molecules where I was talking about Uh-huh. Misunderstood chemicals, and then March got really busy. Why did I think I could do that in the middle of my dissertation?
Melissa:I don't know. They were quick and easy at first, and then I was just so busy. I literally shut down all activities been working. So that is it. That was had a few.
Melissa:But maybe I'll do May molecules or
Jam:Did you which one did you already do in March when you were doing them?
Melissa:I think I did one about vinegar.
Jam:I
Melissa:think I did the general word chemicals. I don't remember all that I did. Why do you ask?
Jam:I was gonna say, I just as you're talking, I was thinking of 3 elements, like, just the element themselves that I was like, I bet these are, Quote, unquote, misunderstood in a way. I don't know, like, what the answer would be about why they misunderstood. But lead, Everything's led bad led led bad. Arsenic?
Melissa:Oh, yeah.
Jam:And then one other thing one I thought of that we've actually talked about that Is misunderstood in a different way Mhmm. That was important for you to correct people's understanding about? Helium.
Melissa:Oh, yeah. Helium because there's a shortage.
Jam:Yeah. And that's like it seems like there's almost oh, it's just a fun little, helium. It's all it's just for For our fun. That's why it exists.
Melissa:Yep. For our fun. Helium's so weird because it goes up into the atmosphere. You can we can lose all of our helium if we're Careful.
Jam:Yeah. But so we talked about that one, which was super interesting. And then I thought of Vlad and Arsenc just as, like, as a pedestrian, I've always been like, Those are bad.
Melissa:What's up with those? That's a those I'm gonna add those to my episode ideas list right now.
Jam:So that's me saying, I bet I bet these are misunderstood, but I'm the one misunderstanding them maybe.
Melissa:Yes. Maybe. Who knows? Lead can be really dangerous, but I don't know what What's good about it? But I wouldn't assume that there'd be nothing good about it.
Melissa:You know?
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:Okay. That those are good questions. Thanks, Jim.
Jam:The last question we have.
Melissa:I thought this was a fun one.
Jam:Yeah. From Renee. Renee's got some good we usually have hers at the end too, which is kinda funny.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Asks, what's a random fact about you that people would be surprised by?
Melissa:One thing that I said yesterday that people were surprised by is that I made my own wedding cake.
Jam:Yeah. That is definitely not typical.
Melissa:And I really like the cakes that I made, and my mom helped me pick the flavors before she passed away. So
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:I made my own wooden cake. They're really cute. I can post them. 1 had succulents And 1 my mom also helped me pick out succulents as a flower for my wedding. And then Mason made These little iron things of our Stardew Valley characters, which is just a little video game when we're in quarantine, we played together.
Melissa:And, also, lately, people have been surprised that my sister and I started grad school for a PhD at the same time and finished we both Graduated this semester, technically.
Jam:That's super cool and very I mean, like, just a nice to have. It's obviously just awesome if y'all both got PCs in general, period, no matter Okay. Sweet. So Melissa's are both much better than
Melissa:Stop. Mine.
Jam:I just can't. On the cuff. I mean, we'll just had a little bit extra time. I'll give myself that, like, pass a little bit in case I think of something cooler later. But One thing I like to throw out when I'm, on the spot and have to say a fun fact or something strange about me is that my lips do not get chapped.
Melissa:It's amazing.
Jam:I don't use something to prevent that. I don't use any product on my lips at all. I'd never have.
Melissa:Well, ChapStick is actually kinda sketchy according to doctor Shaw, the dermatologist. So
Jam:I've always suspected I shouldn't have any it was all it's just a gut feeling. That's all. Yeah. But my lips just do not get chapped. And so I kinda feel like that's either superpower or all the things people use to to, help their cap lips make their lips dependent on this stuff.
Melissa:I think that is that is I don't remember exactly what doctor Shaw said, but it's along those lines. Yeah. So, actually, don't use ChapStick. Just use Vaseline. The only thing that keeps Moisture in that's a 100% occlusive is what's that called is Vaseline.
Melissa:So if you do struggle with chopped lips, Vaseline is the best thing to Keep moisture in. And it's even better if you can put a light moisturizer on and then Vaseline over that because it helps moisturize your lips, and then it keeps the water from escaping.
Jam:Nice. Interesting.
Melissa:So don't use ChapStick. It's a sham. Yeah. Everything's a sham.
Jam:Everything's a sham.
Melissa:But, also, you know what I think is a surprising fact about you, Jim, is that one time when you we did okay. Let me paint the picture. So Jim is what I would call A hipster dad? Yeah. He's not the tallest.
Melissa:He's not the most athletic, And he embraces that.
Jam:Yeah. Those are things about me that I am proud of.
Melissa:But Jim does care about fitness and health, and we did a fitness challenge.
Jam:Yeah. And friend a group of friends.
Melissa:A group of friends. And one of the challenges was a plank challenge, and Jam prepared for a very long time and won the plank challenge by, like, holding a plank for so long. I think was it 5 minutes? Was it 2 minutes? It was
Jam:It's written down somewhere, but it was very long. And our friend who does crossfit all the time was, like, the person I was Yes. Tied with at the end that everybody else had already fallen.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Our friend Ryan. And,
Melissa:Jam defeated him.
Jam:I defeated him somehow.
Melissa:I was so impressed and shocked.
Jam:Yeah. And, yeah, Wilson and I were on the same team in this challenge anyway.
Melissa:Good when we're on the same team.
Jam:Which is great. And our team won because of
Melissa:this Because of that Blank challenge.
Jam:Which I, like, kinda thought might end up happening, so I did practice in, like, I guess, practice, train, whatever you wanna say, in secret. But it didn't only I mean, like, might not be surprising to you as listeners, but it definitely surprised our friend group, especially the teams who lost because of it. Yes. And we're pretty sore about it.
Melissa:We never got our winnings, which was a free didn't like a cooked meal by all of our friends.
Jam:Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
Melissa:But we did still win. We get that glory.
Jam:A 100%.
Melissa:And shout out to V Garza who reviews episodes sometimes and who is also on our team. Mhmm. Mhmm. So thanks. Thanks to the chem for your life team future chem for your life team.
Jam:Now don't yeah. I have not practiced the plank in a long time, so I could not do it right now. I could not do it long time like that. So no. If you see me on the street somewhere, Don't Don't try.
Jam:Don't try to make me do that. But it did happen once.
Melissa:Well, I will say this is a long episode. But so if you're tired of listening, you know, feel free to exit out. But I wanted to share this because it's so Sweet and so beautiful, and it has connections to the show. So my sister and I randomly started the pod what? Started grad school at the same time, so by different circumstances.
Melissa:I was working on my organic chemistry PhD. Dee, I decided it wasn't right for me. After three and a half years, I finished, and I started in a new program in January of 2019. And my sister was working As someone who is writing grants as a primary investigator even though she had a master's degree, and typically you need a PhD to do that, but because my sister's really enjoyed her job and is honestly very good at it Yeah. She was able to go kind of ahead of her position.
Melissa:And Due to outside circumstances, she couldn't continue that unless she got a PhD. Oh. So she got offered a position to work in her position where she was writing grants and doing the work she wanted to do and get her PhD at the same time.
Jam:Wow.
Melissa:So she and I both happened to start our new programs the same month, the January of 2019. And I commissioned A piece of artwork from our really good friend who's who reviews episodes and who is an artist Mhmm. Who made our chemistry for your life shirt, A piece of artwork that was my sister and I standing at the start line of this marathon, there was these trails and a hill, and off in the distance was the finish line with a PhD. Yeah. And I drove to see my sister graduate in her graduation ceremony last week.
Melissa:And When I got there I'm gonna cry because it's so sweet. Uh-huh. She had commissioned a picture of the opposite of us at the finish line Because we're both graduating.
Jam:Dang.
Melissa:And looking back at what we've been through, and there was I'm gonna cry. There was, like, a cliff that represented when my mom died. And so, like, thinking about where we were when we started and how much we didn't know what we were kind of face and then looking back at everything that we've come through and that we still got to the finish line was really, really beautiful. Wow.
Jam:So That's cool.
Melissa:Shout out to Nikki for that beautiful piece of artwork and to my sister. We even her school's maroon, and Our school's green, and I wear maroon a lot and chore's green a lot, so I slip swift swapped our school colors. It's like really it was a really cute a little gaining.
Jam:I gotta see that if you have a picture of it somewhere.
Melissa:Yes. I do. And, also, at the finish line, there's a bird to my mom really liked these red winged black birds, and Renee sees them a lot when she's Paddleboarding. Uh-huh. And my mom would always get so excited.
Melissa:She loved birds. She also got really excited by hummingbirds too and, robins and cardinals. And So she has one of those on the finish line too. And and the first one's, like, the sun is rising. And then in the last one, the sun is Setting.
Melissa:So it's like all this really beautiful symbolism and, it's made me cry. So
Jam:Dang.
Melissa:That was a fun one to add in because we both started and finished together.
Jam:Yeah. I
Melissa:So that was pretty cool.
Jam:Yeah. A 100%. Like Wilson said, it's been a long episode. But before we let you guys go, we wanna make sure we shout out Our friends are our CoFi supporters, people who have either signed up to give us a monthly amount on our CoFi or have given a One time gift since we did their last q and r. We wanna shout them out because it helps us cover the cost of doing this show, and keeping it going, keeping the show itself free.
Jam:And so these people are absolute rock stars.
Melissa:And I also really appreciate we've been able to expand. We've been able to get transcriptions, which were highly requested for every episode, so go check Those out if you're interested. We have those on our website. When we're thinking about starting a new website so that we can have merch available more often, we've got a lot of Exciting things in the works, and there's a lot of things that we're able to do exclusively because of those of you who support us on CoFi. So thank you so much to Hunter, Jacob, we have 3 mystery Ko fi supporters, so y'all know who you are.
Melissa:Thank you so much for your gifts. Steven b. Kevin, he said he's a high school teacher in Oklahoma, and he uses us when he has subs. So that was kind of fun. Feel free to do that.
Melissa:And if Your class ever has any questions, reach out to us. And Chelsea b and Christine and g, thank you all so much for your donations. We literally Would not be able to do the things that we're doing to support people without you and to share chemistry with so many people.
Jam:This episode of chemistry for your life was created by Melissa Cleany and Jim Robinson. We'd like to give a special thanks to e Robinson who
