Hey, everyone. You may or may not know that Jim actually started his podcast career outside of Chemistry For Your Life. A long time ago, he and a friend named Jason started a podcast called Podcast For Your Life. And this week, I had the awesome opportunity to be a guest on the show. The format is very different from chemistry for your life, but we thought it would be fun as a little bonus bonus episode here in the chemistry for your life feed.

Don't worry. You'll still have a new chemistry for your life episode out tomorrow and a normal bonus episode this month. This is just something extra that we thought you would enjoy. Hope you like it.

Hey. I'm Jason. I'm Jam. And welcome back to Podcast For Your Life,

The podcast where we share thoughts from our life, for yours, in 15 minutes or less.

Yep. Or we will add another person to our show. Just kidding. We're gonna do that anyway today.

Yes. Today, we'll be having a strange kind of crossover. I was about to say crossover hit, but that's TBD, the hit part. But we're doing a crossover of 2 different For Your Life podcasts. We have, obviously, Jason and I, you're used to hearing.

And then we have Melissa from Chemistry For Your Life, the other For Your Life podcast. Melissa, would you care to introduce yourself? And Woo hoo.

Yeah. Can I just say,

oh my gosh? This is so exciting.

I'm Melissa, and normally I say I'm a chemist, so I

feel like I should say that again.

And then Jason and I could both sit just say, and we're not. What's a chemist?

So I'm really excited. I'm excited to be here. It's so different. It's so free form. I'm I'm used to lesson plans and whatnot.

And and I probably feel the most comfortable between both of you guys because I'm used to recording with each of you, just not together. So this is, like, an even better recording session than normal. But one thing that one reason why this is happening, it's great to have Melissa no matter what, but she brought to our attention that she had a lot of thoughts about Books.

Yes. I have had these burning questions since February of 2019.

That's that's a long time to have question. That's a long time to be burning.

And I don't have any satisfying answers, so maybe we can come up with some today.

We certainly can try our best. Promise that, but we can probably try. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. We'll we'll we'll at least have some thoughts in the next, It's, 14 minutes. So I guess the question to kick us off is what are books? Melissa, do you have any thoughts about books?

I mostly have questions about what books are, so I don't feel like I have any thoughts on the actual definition of a book. I just don't understand what they are.

What's the broadest definition that you can come up with?

It just seems like a really long collection of words that make some kind of cohesive narrative fiction or not.

Nice. I like that. A long collection of words that make Mhmm. Something. Yeah.

Yeah. That make a cohesive something.

Yeah. What about Kids' books, though. Like, I have some baby books that are definitely less words, more pictures.

Yeah. And not long

either. Books? Definitely not long. Yeah. Some of them are actually too short.

I'm like, damn. I wish this had 3 more chapters because you'd fall asleep by that.

Brings up a good point. So it's like, it doesn't have to be words. Collection of somethings that create a cohesive something

of some length.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

We're already feeding into the questions that I have about what counts as a book.

That's kind of how we arrive at it too, because it's like, okay. Forget everything we know as humans who've been alive and have kind of been operating with some amount of success Through the universe for some amount of time. Forget all that, and let's try to teach ourselves what something is from the beginning.

Yeah. It's so weird if you stop and think about it. So it sounds like books are have words or they are words, and they sometimes have pictures. Is that a fair cohesive definition? I think so.

And usually, they're on paper used to be, but not anymore.

That's right. Yeah. Ebooks are now a thing. Mhmm. And, yeah, digital everything.

Audiobooks, also. So they're not even, like, In physical form, they're, like, in well, maybe they're I guess an audiobook would be technically physical form at its, like, very core of the computer data file or whatever, but it's, like, Through the air. So it's, like, sort of.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this is where my deepest question about what counts as a book Comes into play with audiobooks. Are you ready for it?

Yes, please.

So there's a podcast that I sometimes listen to, and They did a 5 part series, and each part was more than an hour. So it was, like, a 7 part series, and they write out a script and then a narrator reads it. And that's called a podcast. And then a podcaster I know wrote a book and read it, and it's only an audiobook. There's no paper copy of it.

So what's the difference? Why is 1 a podcast and one's an audiobook? Are all podcasts audiobooks kind of?

Woah. Wow. Yikes. Copyrighted material. Damn.

We should've been charging people all along.

Man. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure if people would've maybe would've, like, decreased people's chances of listening, but,

you know, whatever. Maybe. It's worth it.

Yeah. That's a very that's a very good question as well. So I haven't really thought, like, too deeply about them. I even listened to a podcast that came to mind when you were talking That the guy absolutely writes out pretty much suit to me word for word what he's gonna say on the podcast ahead of time. But it's it doesn't feel like it's not a podcast.

It's not a narrative story. It's just that he, writes it all out. He's, like, a word for word preparer kinda person. And

Right.

It's an analytical podcast, so it makes sense for that context. But I would certainly not think of it as a book. So or an audiobook. That's weird.

That's a weird line. Right?

Yes. I feel like I feel like things have evolved. Like this is, like, talking about the almost the evolution of books. Like, they used to be on, like, stone tablets, like, 4 chapters, 4 tablets, And now we're talking about these things that exist over the airwaves. You know?

Yeah. Yeah. So then maybe maybe there's no way to really define what a book is at this point.

Can I stir 1 more complex thing in?

Yeah. Please. Yeah.

This is

what got me started about it. Okay. My favorite book from when I was a little kid, it was Ella Enchanted. And I was reading it, and my roommate wanted to go to sleep. So we turned off the lights, and I just found a PDF of it online and read that.

And I finished it in, like, 2 days.

The whole PDF was online?

Yeah. It was probably legal. Sorry, world. But I do own a copy of the book, I feel a

little

bit better. Yeah. Yeah. But I finished it really fast, and I was like, I've read papers, like, journal

papers Mhmm.

That have been longer than that. So once we're in the PDF ebook file, again, where do we draw the line between what counts as a book and what doesn't?

Right.

Yeah. I feel like I feel like

so much of it comes down to the intent of it, which it's a kind of a non answer in some ways. But People say, okay. I made this thing, and here's the format I want it to be in. And it's almost like it's completely up to them to say What the format is? So it's like it's a book I wrote, but it's only on audio form, and I am gonna release it for free in a podcast.

It's like, okay, man. It's up to you, but That's confusing. Okay. But we'll listen. So and I feel like the whole difference between, like, journals, like an academic journal or a article or like a paper For an essay versus a book, it almost ends up sometimes being a really blurry line, And it just kinda helps you have a certain set of expectations about it.

So, like, the lot the reason you wouldn't call out a podcast books is probably because They aren't trying to tell a cohesive story or make one cohesive point that they're building to toward their discussing something. Or Yeah. They're interviewing somebody. And so they're like, oh, it's not a book. It's this.

But if they planned it and wrote it out and had paragraphs and built an argument, they might think, it's a book, or I'm telling you a story. It's a book. So I don't know. Is that seem like that's sort of BS, or is that seem like it's getting somewhere?

I don't know.

And I think ebook is easy because oftentimes, the ebook only exists because a physical version also exists. That's not always the case now, but at the beginning, that was how it was. And so then there's this format, and there's readers for it. And it feels like there is parameters around the ebook deal.

Yeah. It does feel like ebooks almost had to exist as a book first most of the time. Mhmm.

And it and it's I do think so much of it must be the intent of just what did this person set out to do. Just to get things a little crazy right now, there's a podcast who that is just reading a book chapter by chapter.

Oh, gosh. That is confusing.

The podcast I mean, I think

we we've talked about this a little bit. I can't remember if we've talked about this ever on air. Maybe Jason yeah. Jason and I did a podcast about podcasts requested by a chat one time. And we talked about how, Like, the intended podcast was to be free, and though the platform, the way they're released, all that stuff is kind of what it was all built on.

And then now there's some that are not free, which is a huge problem and it starts to mess with the category. So I feel like If you are just reading a book on a podcast, it is a podcast in which you're reading a book. But what's weird is that podcasts are free. So as long as you're Playing by the rules of both things, you can make it happen. This is a book.

I'm reading on a podcast.

As long

as the podcast is free, I feel like you're not messing things up. But if you're If you are charging for it, then I think it's not a podcast anymore. It's an audiobook.

Yeah. Well, I think

this one's definitely still a podcast. And they're not They're not doing any commercials or anything,

I think, to make it legal for them to do that. So that one's definitely a book on a podcast, but there are some other ones that really blur the Lions, audiobooks only especially. Yeah. I'm not a fan of audiobooks because I like to be able to, like, make the voices for people in my head. And if somebody's reading it in their voice, I feel like it takes the voice away.

Like, particularly with fiction, I like to be able to imagine, like, the scene in my head while I'm reading it As well as, like, hear it in my head. And when somebody's reading it to me, I just feel like I can't I'm like, oh, okay. Well, that's what their voice sounds like versus like, oh, I would have had them Sound a different way in my head. Does it make sense? Like, it's all imagination, like, how that works with reading fiction versus listening to it.

Because, like, audio dramas are, like, complete different. That's like, okay. Cool. That's the character that's play sound like. But when it's just a book, and it's, you know, somebody reading it.

So that's why I love reading, a physical thing. Eat whether it's an ebook or whether it's physical pieces of paper or papyrus or tablets, whatever you guys are panning up to these days.

Well, Jason, let me stir something else in for you.

Please.

Yes. It counts as reading a book if you listen to an audiobook? Because I always feel guilty logging audiobooks on my Goodreads account.

I have no idea. I I

I have an opinion, I think, on this one. Now I'm a little opposite of Jason. I only use audiobooks for fiction because I found that, it's It's the only thing I can listen to in audio form where I can actually kinda retain it and really get into it. If I tried to listen to a nonfiction book in audiobook format, I feel like I would, like, get a lot less info, retain a lot less. But because it's a story with a fiction book, it keeps my attention.

And I've noticed I just don't have I don't really make time for reading fiction physically. But if I'm driving or road tripping, then I'll listen to an audiobook, and it feels like I can make time for it there. But Because of that, I think it counts as reading it not because I'm, like, wanting to, you know, get more points or something, but because of, like, oh, yeah. I read Dune, meaning I know the entire story. I listen to the entire thing.

But if it was maybe, like, a nonfiction book where there's some level of, like, Credentials that come with having read it or completed it, it might feel different. But, like, it almost feels like what I'm really saying when I say I read a book is For fiction, I feel like I've completed the story. Not really like I don't feel like my focus in is not is on the word red. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. So I think what we've decided is there's, like, no such thing as books.

That's a perfect, encapsulation of all the thoughts was the thank you. That really is. Wow. That's books don't exist.

There's just no there's no thing that you can for sure say is a book or is not.

Does that mean that libraries don't exist either?

No. Libraries definitely exist because they have everything in them. They have audiobooks. They have ebooks. They have Nonbooks, magazines, computers.

Mhmm. And they're building. So

Mhmm.

They're super easy to define because of their building ness.

Mhmm. Mhmm.

One thing I noticed in high school is that the DVD rental or borrowing came out, when I was in high school. And so instead of going to library just to get your favorite books or comic books or whatever, now we were going to get, like, the next disc of, you know, The West Wing or something. And so it's like the library transformed from the place you get books for free and get to experience The joy of reading to the place where you get to experience the joy of free blockbusters. Yeah.

Yes. Absolutely.

So there you go. That concludes our subsegment of the show, libraries for your life.

Books, they don't exist.

Books, hear it with your eyes or see it with your ears. Doesn't matter.

Books. Your ears can read too.

There. That's good. That's better.

That is good. That is good.

What about books? Podcasts that you pay for?

Oh. Yeah.

I like that. I like it.

I almost said podcast books that are free, but

I decided to stick with the books format. You know?

Or you could say, like, books, analog podcasts. Yeah. That's okay. We wrote our podcast. We got our highest.

We transferred it into some, physical words using some ink and some, some pulp from a tree. And now you can look at our podcast instead of just hearing it. Technology is it's amazing.

Alright, guys. Well, I think we're out of time. So, we should probably write an epilogue to this thing. Most

of thanks so much for joining, Jason and I. And thanks so much for helping us, be really confused about something that we Felt like we understood, but now we definitely do not. Yes. Thank you.

You're so welcome. Thanks for nothing and not answering my question at all. Yeah. Hopefully, we've moved to your expectations.

I'm just kidding. I had a great time. Thanks for having me.

Anytime. Bye guys.