Bonus: Can coffee get HOTTER in an insulated mug? (and other questions)
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast that helps you understand the chemistry Oh, your everyday life bonus edition.
Melissa:I almost cut Jim off to sing bonus edition. If you heard my little whispered
Jam:Yeah. Before
Melissa:LIPs. I forgot. I forgot.
Jam:Before we even finish describing what the podcast is.
Melissa:Well, I just love I just love it. Okay. So, what we're gonna start out with this time is actually is a pretty is a pretty funny one, I think.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:You can read it. I have it here at the top. K. It's a a friend of ours has has had the same argument with his coworker for 5 years.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:It he literally said we've been at an impasse for 5 years. So here you go. This one's for you, Grant.
Jam:Okay. Starting here?
Melissa:Yeah. Start right there.
Jam:Okay. So this is what Grant sent to us. Is this his his writing, basically, that you said?
Melissa:The first part is his writing, and then I summarized the argument.
Jam:Got it. Okay. Okay. So, Grant sent us this. Pour coffee into an insulated mug with a lid.
Jam:Seal it. Something I've done many times. Here I
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Have my iced coffee, not hot coffee, but iced coffee in it. Insulated mug. Seal it. Open it a bit later, and it goes When you open it. The coffee burned your tongue so bad that you have to wonder if it got slightly hotter while sitting the mug.
Jam:Wait. Could it have actually gotten hotter? So our friend who wrote this in, his and his coworker, we'll call him d, Contend that because the coffee heats up in the heats up the air, that then wouldn't the increase in the air's Temperature heat up the coffee because they're right next to each other. And he also says, maybe the air's temperature increases, which Creates more pressure. And as pressure increases, temperature increases.
Jam:And then they've been at this this impasse for 5 years.
Melissa:Yeah. He gave a really detailed breakdown of the conversation Uh-huh. And then said, this usually continues until one of us says, I really have to get back to work. So okay. So here's my thought.
Melissa:What?
Jam:This is so funny because, like, I have had conversations like that with Grant where it's like, You keep going. But also it's funny in this case because it's like 2 people who who I'm guessing I think I've met this coworker before And of of Grant's, his former coworker of Grant's. And they are both very curious people and analytical, but neither of them scientists. So then you have 2 people speculating, and they can't ever prove either the either of each other right or wrong. And so it would go on forever.
Jam:And I think Grant and I have experienced that too, so it's just kinda funny to me.
Melissa:I actually agreed with everything Grant said, which he doesn't know that yet. He sent it to me, and I was like, this is interesting, and asked a few questions and made a few comments. And then I told him, Do you wanna know, or do you want it to be a surprise? And he said, I want it to be a surprise. But so he wrote out the conversation and everything the coworker said.
Melissa:Mhmm. Then I had the same argument that Grant had in my mind before
Jam:I would read Grant. Okay.
Melissa:So I actually I pretty much agree with everything Grant says, but I have better reasons, I think because of being a chemist, he
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Just goes based off of intuition. And his coworker doesn't feel like intuition is a good enough reason. But but in some ways, I think intuition is our observations about the material world.
Jam:Right. And
Melissa:that is
Jam:Educate a guest about Whipped cream.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:It's like it is intuited by the data I do have Yes. Which is not nothing.
Melissa:Right.
Jam:And so, yeah, any of us making guesses have something we're basing it on.
Melissa:Yes. Okay. So here's my thought. I think 1st, to truly answer this question, we have to take it as a closed system. Does the coffee get hotter or not?
Melissa:So let's let's pour in our coffee, and Let's put on a lid that creates a perfect seal. Let's pretend like no heat will be lost or gained from the surroundings, And that is called an adiabatic system in physical chemistry. And my degree is not in physical chemistry, but I have taken 4 physical chemistry classes. So this is this is what I'm basing it off of, my physical chemistry knowledge.
Jam:K.
Melissa:I could be right or wrong. But this is and is there a physical chemist who listen? Hit us up if we're wrong. I think this could be an ongoing conversation.
Jam:Also, I have my own theory that I'm gonna share afterward to not muddy the waters. I'm gonna Okay. Try to capture my mind and not let it be affected by anything you're about to say.
Melissa:Okay. So the first step for sure is true. The coffee has to heat up the air, And we talked about this in the episode where we talked about how thermoses work. Do you remember that?
Jam:I do remember this. Yes.
Melissa:And so kind of like we talked about the reason things Cooled down is because if there's a concentrated amount of energy in 1 space, then that energy will naturally be distributed to the other molecules around.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So, like, if there's a whole room and the molecules are moving pretty slowly in that room, but then there's a hot cup Coffee, they would distribute the energy out, and that's why everything eventually would reach the same temperature.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So in this case, though, we're in a closed system. So what would happen is If the air is colder than the coffee, enough energy would leave the coffee into the molecules in the air so that they roughly are even in Okay. Okay. So we've got our closed system. It's a fixed volume, and it's a fixed number of molecules.
Melissa:Right. Okay. So the first step is true. That's why though that coffee heats up the air. Okay.
Melissa:And it is also true that as coffee heats up the air, there will be increased pressure because we've talked about this before in the entire So Yeah. Molecules moving around more exert more pressure on their surroundings.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So we're all agreeing That in our closed system, the coffee heats up the air.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Now the next question is, then can that air go back and heat up the coffee? And I think he kind of has 2 separate arguments, and maybe he doesn't realize that. But in the flow of the conversation, I found 2 arguments. And the first one was You read it. Wouldn't the increase in the air's temperature heat up the coffee because they're right next to each other?
Melissa:And I don't think that's true because if the energy was trying to evenly distribute, it would evenly distribute and then Stay there.
Jam:Right. It it achieves an equilibrium kind of deal
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And then stays.
Melissa:Yeah. I don't think it would be like, okay. So we're Shoving air or shoving heat into the air, and then that'll come back into the coffee or whatever. Right. Even if it did, if it took a while to get to the even amount if there was, like, fluctuations in the temperature.
Melissa:I don't think it could heat past what it would have been Right. To start. But then I think so the conduct the I think he said conduction. Like, that conduction won't heat back up the coffee higher than What the energy had already lost was.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:I don't think that that's possible. Because even though there was some energy in the air molecules already, I don't think they'll put So much energy that they could overwhelm Right. You know?
Jam:Because then it'd be almost like, could you could it pull so much heat out And it cools the air. You know? It's like Exactly. And then, but yeah. Otherwise, you're asking, could there be more energy than there was to start with?
Melissa:And I don't think there can be in this system. But but then his other theory and this is a closer reason. I think it maybe could happen, but I still think it doesn't. Sorry. Sorry, Dee.
Melissa:So his other theory is the air's temperature has increased, so pressure increase It's and if pressure increases, you know, if there's more pressure, then temperature has to increase too. But I think he's making sort of a fallacy here Because in this case, the increase in pressure is caused by the increase in temperature
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Not the other way around. So he's right. If I were to exert more pressure on a So if we had our thermostat and we made it smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller Mhmm. It would heat up, heat up, heat up, and have more and more pressure until it Exploded or couldn't get any smaller.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But in this case, we have a fixed system once we put the lid on. And, yes, there is more temperature that causes the pressure in the air part to go up, but I don't think then that that means that then it could increase the temperature.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Because if it did, then it would have to increase the pressure again, and then it increase the temperature again, and then it would increase the pressure again. I think it stops at the temperature increases the pressure. Like, the temperature causes the pressure to rise, but the pressure doesn't Keep raising the temperature. Right. They go together and then they kinda stop is how I envision it.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Now he could have Thought. Oh, well, the increase of pressure puts puts more pressure on the liquid too, and that increases the temperature of the liquid. However, the idea that as temperature increases, pressure increase it is a gas law.
Jam:So
Melissa:this is what's known as the ideal gas law. I think you probably, did some PV equals NRT stuff.
Jam:Oh, sure. Yeah. I think that sounds familiar. I just don't remember it very well. But yes.
Melissa:Pivnert, whatever ideal gas. So they're like Pivnert. In an ideal situation, a gas would act exactly like this, basically.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Well, molecules and gases aren't the same. So I don't think we can say, oh, well, it's increasing pressure on the liquid, so the liquid also is going to get hotter. Because liquids are already the molecules are so close together. They're, like, held together.
Jam:You
Melissa:know? They're, like, Having intermolecular forces are, like, touching.
Jam:You know?
Melissa:Yeah. So if you're pushing them closer and closer, they get closer and closer to a solid. Right. Well, water's a little different because it'll, like, expand once it rearranges when it freezes, but gases are different because they have tons of space between them. And then when you when you make that volume smaller or put more pressure on them, you know, in the smaller space, they're still able to move around in that space.
Melissa:Right. But liquid doesn't really behave that same way, so I don't think we can just uniformly slap on, oh, there's an increase of pressure in the air in this flask Or, thermos or whatever.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:That pressure will put will be exerted onto the liquid, and the liquid will then also Compress and therefore be hotter, I don't think that that's a path we can follow.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But even if it was a path we could follow, I Still don't think the pressure would exert enough energy to get the coffee hot again. Right. Hotter. As hot as it has already lost and then hotter Still Yeah. Is what they're saying.
Melissa:Could it have gotten hotter? So I don't I still don't think that's possible.
Jam:Yeah. So
Melissa:yeah. For all those reasons, I guess, I think that there is Not a way that I could see that the coffee would have gotten hotter.
Jam:Right. And maybe there's a sensory sort of trickery there because the air is now hot also. And so Yeah. As you're drinking it, There is a feeling that, like, there's just more hotness that you can feel even before you take the sip. You know?
Jam:But, yeah, I the other thing that I've experienced in my all my thermoses is, like, I know you said this at the beginning, presume sort of assume is a closed system. Mhmm. But it's really not though Because this will get hot. It's it slowly does, and it's intentional, but I can tell A bit of the temperature of my coffee based on holding the thermos. Yeah.
Jam:And it itself gets hot, which means some of the heat's being lost.
Melissa:Yeah. So And in really high quality, which what kind of brand is that?
Jam:It's Hydro Flask.
Melissa:That's a pretty good high quality thing. But even in, like, YETI cups, I Can't tell how my coffee is, but the lid is not perfectly sealed.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And I think that's the area of weakness in a lot of thermoses is, like, You're losing stuff from the lid. So Yeah. If we're really talking in reality, if we're, like, not talking about a perfectly closed system, I really think it's impossible for the coffee to get hotter because they do think air is escaping. Yeah. And as, you know, those molecules are escaping, they're taking their energy with them.
Melissa:Yeah. You know?
Jam:And doesn't get like, not a ton is leaking out in terms of heat, but I can tell when I have hot coffee or cold coffee in here because Yeah. It'll at least be a little warm. Yeah. Never gets, like, hot to the touch or whatever. But, like, it makes sense if it's heating the air, the air is touching metal, the metal wraps all the way out and around, it's gonna happen.
Jam:You're gonna lose it somehow. So I think I think we've given I think you have given Grant a lot of good Scientific ammunition against his little coworker.
Melissa:Yeah. I well, I mean, Grant pretty much said everything I already said. He said it in different ways.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:He's headed more like a mechanical engineer. Is that what his degree is in, or is he a software engineer?
Jam:He he's he does web development and software, but his degree is in. I think The arts and technology one from
Melissa:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Jam:Which is kinda
Melissa:Well, he had a he had a good understanding. Like, he also argued against, like, oh, that would be a Perpetuating system, kind of. And, yeah, he he had a very good understanding of the way that the molecules moved, and I agreed with all of his arguments, Actually, but I just was able to take it a step further and get to the molecular level and also draw that distinction between We can't always apply gas laws to liquids, and I really think I think what the coworker thought is, oh, this heat I don't think he thought it Perpetually heating and expand heating pressure, heating pressure. I don't think he thought that. Yeah.
Melissa:I think he thought it was heating, and it increased the pressure, and then that pressure exerted on the coffee. And then the coffee would had to get hotter because it was had more pressure on it. Mhmm. Mhmm. But that would only be true if it was like a separate gas, I think.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:I think I don't think putting pressure on the coffee would automatically make make it for sure hotter. Yeah. Now someone who studies The physical chemistry of liquids could probably answer that question better. But regardless, the I don't think it could ever replace the amount of energy I had lost, So in that setting. So I think there's no way it could have gotten hotter.
Jam:Interesting. I love those kinds of questions and debates.
Melissa:I know.
Jam:And What is cool about being 2 non scientists in their case, but both have opinions about stuff and care and think about deep about how the world works, that they can keep going back and forth like that for years?
Melissa:I mean, I really haven't think about it. I we in our we're doing a fitness competition right now. I think I mentioned it. And so We're supposed to seek 5 minutes of intentional sunshine. So I went outside for my 5 minute walk, and the whole walk, I was like now let me think about Yeah.
Melissa:That. Wood putting pressure on the leg like, that was the thing I got stuck on. I was like, I just don't think we can apply that. And then I went and looked it up to make sure, like, does this gas I'll apply to this. No.
Melissa:I don't think it does. You know?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Because even even me, it kinda got me in a in a spiral, and then I spent, like, probably 45 minutes trying to figure out a way that I could explain it, that it made sense. Yeah. So it was fun. I liked that question a lot.
Jam:I liked it too. I was that was a ride for me. I love it.
Melissa:Thanks, Grant. This one's for you. Sorry sorry, Dee. Sorry, coworker.
Jam:Okay. Moving on from Grant. Love you Grant, x y x o. This is from our friend and Patreon supporter, Patreon supporter, Avishai. And Avishai said, I just finished listening to the latest q and r episode.
Melissa:This is when we speculated about yeast Yep. And what they were.
Jam:Yeah. Yeast are fungi which are eukaryotes. They have a chitin. They have chitin in their cell walls, and they are heterotrophs, meaning they get their nutrition by absorbing molecules. Plants make sugars from c o two.
Melissa:Okay. So, I wanna make cut in here and make a distinction. Heterotrophs, I believe, eat their nutrients. Autotrophs make their nutrients. So I think what they're saying is The difference between plants what Avishai is saying is the difference between plants and and fungi, which I'd was like, what even are fungi?
Melissa:K.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Is that plants are autotrophs and, fungi are not.
Jam:Okay. Got it. And he said there they also have mitochondria and other organelles that bacteria don't have. So, generally, yeast and food eat sugar and generate ethanol, which is lethal to bacteria. Do I near east and European cultures put it in water to support civilization?
Melissa:That's interesting. Did I know that?
Jam:Is that is
Melissa:that maybe, like, why so many cultures had Ate beer drink beer instead of just water?
Jam:Yeah. Maybe so.
Melissa:And I've even heard, like, in biblical times, wine then wasn't, like, As intense as wine now. It's just, like, fermented enough to keep the bacteria.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:Kinda like kombucha probably.
Jam:Yeah. And guess you could travel with it easier and something like that too or whatever. Like yeah. And then he said, while bacteria sugar and make acids to kill yeast, If your fermented food is sour like pickles, it's bacteria. If it has ethanol, it's yeast.
Melissa:I am Fused about the pickles because I thought that was just in vinegar.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Yeah. But I don't know. But, like, kimchi, I think, is bacteria, so it's sour. Right.
Jam:I mean and kombucha, you ferment it. And if you go too long, it's real sour and vinegary.
Melissa:Isn't kombucha yeast And bacteria?
Jam:Both. Yep.
Melissa:Okay. Well, he goes on to talk about sourdough, which also has both.
Jam:Yeah. In sourdough, you have both organisms living in symbiosis, which is probably similar to kombucha. Having each killed the enemies of the other. Okay?
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:The bacteria generates the sour flavor and the yeast, The ethanol and c o two to help the bread rise.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:I also read a theory that the high acid content of sour bread allows it To better retain its water content, protecting it from drying when left in the open.
Melissa:Yeah. It is pretty, like, wet feeling.
Jam:Interesting. He just threw a bunch of awesome stuff.
Melissa:Yeah. That way, I read that, and I was like, woah. I did not fact check any of this. We trust Avishai, but I did wanna clarify. We learned much, and I wanted to learn.
Melissa:So thanks. Yeah. So I wanted to clarify. Now I know the difference between plants and fungi, which are basically that plants make their own food and fungi need to take hidden from another source. And, you know, they reproduce differently, whatever, but that's, like, a big difference.
Melissa:That's why they're not plants. I've spent so much time being like, why are they not just plants? Mhmm. Mhmm. It's weird that they're immobile, though.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:I wonder if there's other Heterotrophs that are immobile Mhmm. Or if it's just or is all fungi immobile? Can yeast move? We have so many questions. It's a
Jam:good question. I mean, I guess, what do you when you say mobile, like mushrooms are their reproductive Part of fungi.
Melissa:It's fungus
Jam:under the ground.
Melissa:And it does grow. Yep. And if you haven't, go listen to the tree from tree shining tree episode of Radiolab because it is wild about mushrooms Yeah.
Jam:Totally.
Melissa:Or, I guess, fungi. So that's a big one. And then
Jam:I was gonna say, it's cool that we have a listener and patron like Avishai.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Because if there's a question that arises, like, what even is Is yeast wherever at at yeast, we have someone like him. No. A fun guy like Avishai.
Melissa:At yeast. Avishai, I'm sorry about that.
Jam:Yeah. A fungi like who can
Melissa:Oh, a fungi. He said a fungi.
Jam:Speak into this stuff.
Melissa:Well, I hated it. Okay. Okay. Anyway, I thought that was really interesting and fun, and I love it when people when we're like, I don't know. Does any of our listeners know?
Melissa:And then we have qualified scientists who do know. And it's for them as like, oh, I know that. I'll share it the same way I feel when people ask a chemistry question.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:I'm like, all of us scientists doing the work.
Jam:And it is so hard because of how many things connect. We there's so many questions that we'll get asked, like, we'll get a message on the website or whatever, that we'll Definitely venture into many areas of science, including chemistry, where it's like most is like, well, the chemistry part I know, but some of this gets into, like, Biology or food chemistry or physics
Melissa:I did not pay close enough attention in biochemistry. It's a big thing that I would take back if I could.
Jam:But it's all connected, especially when it comes to food. A lot of questions from you guys come around food, which makes sense.
Melissa:Did reach out to me that said that they were teaching a food science class and that I could maybe audit it.
Jam:That'd be so dope.
Melissa:I was like, what? Is this real life? So that's exciting.
Jam:Here's another question. This is a question from, I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing this. Mayumi. Mayumi asks I have 1 question that's been in my head for a while now. Why when we put a bowl of water covered in plastic wrap, The plastic expands while it's heating, but then it sinks into the bowl afterwards.
Jam:I think it expands because the water is turning to vapor and taking more space, pushing the wrap sort of cover out. But when it cools down, Why instead of just going back to the original volume, the plastic is sucked into the bowl?
Melissa:Okay. Well, I'm wondering if With 1, why are you heating a bowl with plastic wrap? Can you think of any reason?
Jam:I have done that too before I really thought about heating plastics. But but it's for I've done it for things like like reheating snow that has, like, rice or whatever. It it helps to trap
Melissa:Trap the liquid in. Yeah.
Jam:I kinda steam it again.
Melissa:Water to it is what I'll do.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. So here's the expanding thing. I think you had a good thought. I would also add that when You are heating up gas molecules. They move around more, and they exert more pressure, so that pressure probably stresses Stretches out the plastic wrap.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So does the water vapor. I think that if water is more water reaching that vapor point is probably also adding to the trapped gas on top of the bowl. Mhmm. So I agree. Now it's hard for me to visual it sinking back down.
Melissa:I think Is it if it's sucked into the bowl tightly, I would imagine that it cools down below the temperature that it was originally at.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And then it almost creates, like, an absence of space. Like, they're moving around less, like a vacuum kind of.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:Or if it's not, like, tightly sucked down, you know, it could just have, like, stretched out. And when it relaxes back down, it's just The stretched out part is, like, is just sunken in a little bit.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:Like, it doesn't it doesn't have the elasticity to go back to before it was stretched.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So I don't know it's hard for me to visualize because I've never done this. Is it things actively, like, sucked in, or is it just, like, loosely sunken in?
Jam:I think in my experience, yeah, I think it really was loosely sunk in. But I think because it's so uniformly stretched in a dome, Depending on your bowl, how much space you have in it, and what seems right down, it could almost look like it's like Yeah. This the shape might seem like a
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Has happened.
Melissa:Because when it cools down, the molecules are moving around less, and so they are not taking up as much space, and some of that water vapor will cool back down and condense back down into liquid. Yeah. And so There's less volume of gas, and so I could very easily see it just, like, loosely sinking back down. Now if you take it straight from the hot and put it in the fridge, I think it would actually suck it down. Oh, yeah.
Melissa:Right. Like, make a little vacuum. So I think those are your 2 options. Interesting. That was a good question.
Melissa:Yeah. These are fun ones.
Jam:Yeah. They are. This next question is from doctor Floyd. Doctor Floyd said high school chemistry teacher here. I've been enjoying the podcast.
Jam:It's got me thinking about revamping my chemistry course. That's awesome. I think taking a real life approach would improve motivation and understanding of the importance of chemistry. Podcast has a great way of breaking down topics into simpler expectations. I was wondering if anyone has created a lesson plan and or lab activities that go along with your episodes.
Melissa:Okay. I have lots of thoughts on this. First of all, thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed the podcast, doctor Floyd. So the idea of taking a real life approach to learning, quote, unquote, real life, there's 2.
Melissa:There's something called system thinking, which is like Think about chemistry in the context of all the other systems that exist in the world. But the other thing is called context based learning, and that's the approach that we take here. If we take a Context. And we're not trying to connect it to everything in the whole world. I mean, I think there's a little bit of that.
Melissa:But we take a context, and we try to understand the chemistry within that context. And I'm guessing that there have been papers published about that. So I'm not guessing. There definitely have been, and I I'm guessing that you have access to them. The Royal Society of Chemistry, they have a journal called, chemistry education research and practice.
Melissa:A free resource. You just have to, like, make an account, and you can get articles about chemistry education and, all the work that's gone into context based learning. Also, you can get information about, You can do the same thing on JCHEM Ed, but I think that's journal of chemical education, and that's in the, American Chemical Society, but I don't think it's free. I think you have to have access through your institution or if you're a member. Mhmm.
Melissa:And So that's one resource. Another resource is I have a link tree, and we've meant to put this on ours. We haven't yet. We wanna put it on our website, but I am slowly breaking down episode by episode which chemical concept is at play in the episode.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And I would love to go back and add keywords in our description so people could just search them, but that is way down the line.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But right now, you can go to my link tree. So it's link tr.eeelinktr.ee/organicmelisa. Organic, like, organic chemistry. And I have the beginnings of Atlas. It's just a Google Drive blank Great.
Melissa:Now so it's not pretty, and it's definitely not finished, but that could help you. And then we also did those chemistry at home experiments
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Where that is some Sort of like lab experiments that we talked about the underlying molecules. And I know people have done projects where their students had to make a podcast or where they explain a concept from a podcast or they make a video or something, you know, related to our episodes. So People have done that, but I don't think there's any formal lesson plan. And, we did also receive an email from somebody named Adam as well, who's also a high school chemistry teacher, which way to go. I get so excited when we hear from high school chemistry teachers because That's a really hard job.
Jam:Yeah. And
Melissa:we oh, also shout out our friend, Tim, chemistry podcast supporter and chemistry educator, Officially has a job as a Gammon Street high school teacher.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Yay.
Jam:Congrats, Tim.
Melissa:So, but he reached out asking a similar question about, like, which episodes? Is there a way to filter them? So right now, we don't have them. Hindsight's 2020. When we started this podcast, we had no idea the number of high school teachers that would, Really educators in general that would wanna use the podcast in their classroom.
Melissa:So sorry that we don't have a better resource, but that's what we have now. Yeah. Maybe one day, this podcast can pay my salary, and I'll be able to make resources like that all the time.
Jam:Yeah. Especially going back through old ones and trying to update things or, like, add keywords like that. Hard. You can understand how it's like we're in, like, the 100 and sixties in our episodes. It's a lot a Lot of stuff.
Jam:Lot of work. And it's going back several years of stuff. Yeah. So anyway.
Melissa:Now we're coming up on our 4 year anniversary.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Wild.
Jam:Crazy.
Melissa:So those are good questions. Thanks, Adam, and thanks, doctor Floyd, for the work that you do. And, hopefully, we have more resources for you at some point Or maybe even you know, maybe we could hire an intern. That would be great.
Jam:Yeah. This next question is from Madeline. Madeline asked, what is the chemistry of plant variation? What is going on in the plant for it to invert? Okay.
Melissa:I think it might have been supposed to be variegation.
Jam:Oh, okay.
Melissa:I might have spelled that wrong on there, or maybe not. I have a plant right here for the people who are for the people who are watching on YouTube. Yeah. There's lighter spots on this plant. Like, some yellow, some green?
Melissa:Yes. Okay. That's variegation. There's also, like, stripes. You've seen striped plants, or even, like, there's, like, a marble pothos.
Melissa:If somebody's home at home and you wanna look it up, where they have, like, white spots, That is called variegation. And I don't know the chemistry behind it a 100%, but here's my thought. Chlorophyll is what makes plants green.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And often, variegation increases when a plant is in bright light.
Jam:So it's like if they are
Melissa:getting too much sun, they'll stop producing as much chlorophyll. Mhmm. And so That way they're not, like, overloading themselves in that area, and so there's less literal chlorophyll there. And so that's why it looks less green.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So, like, if you have a variegated plant in bright light, it'll be more variegated. And if you have it in dim light, it will be less It's very good. Because then it needs more chlorophyll to get enough energy to keep itself going. So that's my guess.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:That was a fun question. Maybe we'll do a whole episode about
Jam:I had never heard that word before. I don't think either. Very good. This next one's from Isabelle b. Isabelle asked, what is your favorite Chemistry class that you've taken, undergrad or grad?
Melissa:What's your favorite chemistry class that you've ever taken?
Jam:I've taken 2 only. 1 in high school. I won, in college. And, it's hard to pick. I actually liked both of them a lot.
Jam:I have more fun memories for the high school one. My teacher in high school, chemistry, miss Pittard. She was super cool. One of my favorite teachers. I had a lot of great teachers though, so I'm spoiled in that way.
Jam:But, like, Yeah. Made it fun, and I I probably didn't have the best attitude as, like, a punk high schooler and stuff. Yeah. There's several things I remember, and then I also I just really. She was interested in it, and so that's contagious.
Jam:You know? There's several things I never fully understood that I just wasn't that willing to probably, like, to, like, put more effort into it, like, things like moles and significant figures and stuff like that. And everybody, like, yeah. This This is the worst, and I hate this. And so that stuff, I had a bad attitude about.
Jam:But, there are a lot of things that miss Pitterd was a really good did a good job just Making really interesting, and I ended up my senior year being her I had some spare periods in the day, and so I was her teacher's aide And got to help sort of catalog the chemicals in the the storage
Melissa:That's cool.
Jam:And stuff. It didn't get to, like, really handle handle them, but, like, got to, like, touch a, you know, vial of mercury or whatever it was, and, like, make a log of how much there was of each thing and stuff like that. And, like, I don't I wouldn't have done that if miss Pittard hadn't made hadn't been cool and also made chemistry seem cool. Yeah. So I have fond memories there, but my college was also really cool too.
Jam:Yeah. So and doctor Marshall
Melissa:And he knows Oliver Sacks.
Jam:I did not know that.
Melissa:Right? There's a book The I think Oliver Sacks wrote, like, doctor Marshall was written in the
Jam:No way.
Melissa:I'm pretty sure.
Jam:I had no idea. That's awesome. Doctor was super cool. Also, contagious love for chemistry.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And that was a cool experience. So hard to say. Osmiley too, and they're both good ones.
Melissa:This is really hard. I feel like people are gonna be, like, appalled when they hear this, but some of my favorite classes in college, My favorite class in college was a history class and was not my chemistry class. Whoopsie. But, Melissa. I know.
Jam:Oh my gosh.
Melissa:But, similarly, miss Mullis, my high school teacher, was amazing. She is the reason I love chemistry, period. And she is an amazing teacher, and, Yeah. I just really, really, really enjoyed her class. We, like, did such cool things.
Melissa:Like, we mirrored a test tube, and we, like, Hollowed out pennies. Like, we did a react did you do that reaction?
Jam:I can't remember.
Melissa:Some pennies have zinc in their center and others don't.
Jam:We definitely did a penny thing.
Melissa:And you can file off the edges, and then then that's enough space for, like, Shouldn't happen to basically dissolve that yet. Right. But it doesn't dissolve the copper on the outside.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And I got to hold fire. Like, there was, Like, bubbled propane or butane bubbled butane in in these bubbles, and then she lit it on fire. And so it's like, in your hand, there was fire. She just did
Jam:That's cool.
Melissa:A lot of really exciting stuff. And I just don't know that any other class could ever be that good because they were all Also harder because they were college and grad school classes. Yeah. So that was probably the most fun one. I really had fun teaching The class that you took, I taught the lab for it.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And it was kinda like chemistry demo lab. Yeah. So that was a fun class, chemistry for non majors. I really liked that one. Yeah.
Melissa:In in that was in grad school. And then in college, I I did have, and it was, like, advanced organic synthesis class. We would make things, like and take several, you know, lab periods to make them. And in that class, I made sparklers.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:And I made Dye that we, like, tie dyed clothes with.
Jam:Dang. That's cool.
Melissa:So that was really fun. I think those are probably some of My favorite chemistry classes. Yeah. Yeah. There was a time in grad school though where I guess I kinda wanna share this in case other people are in the same place.
Melissa:There was a time in grad school I I did not know if I liked chemistry because We were so in the weeds about everything and that everything was so hard, and I had undiagnosed ADHD. And I was like, this isn't even fun. Like, why are we this zoomed in on this thing that doesn't even matter? Like, I really had gotten to that point, And, my roommate was like, think about why you liked chemistry in the 1st place. It kind of, like, helped me zoom back out.
Melissa:And she was like, So you still think you don't like chemistry? And I was like, no. Yes. I do like chemistry. I just don't like this area of being zoomed in, I think.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And what I'm doing now is the perfect combination where I get to, you know, talk about chemistry and study how people learn chemistry, but I'm not spending all this time down kind of in the weeds of it. Yeah. But but also doing this podcast helped me remember that I love chemistry because there have been times in my career where That was kind of early on in grad school where I was taking all these classes and everything was really detailed, and it wasn't really fun. But then After I finished my master's degree, I'd kind of had a bad experience, and I was just kinda burnt out. And
Jam:I
Melissa:was like, do I even wanna do this anymore. I don't know. I'll try this education thing, but that was when we started this podcast. It was, like, pretty soon after that, and It really helped me remember why I loved chemistry. And, yeah, it was like, oh, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing.
Melissa:You know? So for those of you who are maybe in the same place right now, yeah, that was that don't feel too sad.
Jam:Yeah. That's good.
Melissa:We talked about that for longer than I expected.
Jam:This this is the last question I think we have, for this episode. But From Audrey. Audrey asks, what is your all time favorite snack? That's really hard.
Melissa:I think it's not it's I don't think this counts as a snack, But I think I'm gonna use it because it's, like, the most consistent food in my whole life.
Jam:I I think that's probably getting at what she's probably wanting
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Even if it's not technically.
Melissa:This this has gone through some, like, iterations in my life, but, basically, some kind of pasta and and marinara sauce. So when I was, You know, younger, it was Chef Boyardee ravioli. Uh-huh. Well, you can't you can't eat that as a grown up. It really does not sit well with you.
Melissa:So upgraded to, you know, those tortellinis that are, like, cheese filled
Jam:Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Melissa:That they sell at the store and you just boil them?
Jam:Yes. Frozen Or no?
Melissa:I get the refrigerator kind, but they also have them frozen.
Jam:Got it. Okay.
Melissa:And then now because I have issues with my blood sugar, that's you know, Some, pasta is, like, very blood sugar spiking. So now I kind of have to just This is a little bit sadder, but I have lentil penne pasta and, like, put cheese on top of it and put it in the broiler so it gets a nice brownie. Nice. But my whole life, like, a comfort food. Like, if I just don't know what to eat or if I if I don't I don't know, like, Pasta with red sauce never sounds bad to me.
Melissa:Never. I just it never sounds bad. I can always eat that, and it always feels Safe. Yeah. So
Jam:Dang. That sounds really good. I could definitely go for some right now.
Melissa:Yeah. Now I have to, Sadly, it's had to evolve. You know? It's like my nutrition has gotten more Yeah. More demanding, but that's 1.
Jam:Have you ever tried, This is pasta. Dang it. It's called Pork porkalini. Oh my god. Really good.
Jam:You have to try it.
Melissa:I will say when people are like, What's your name? I'm like, Colini. It's like Tortellini, but with a c instead of a t, which doesn't exactly right because there's also an r.
Jam:But But It helps them get in the right phonetical
Melissa:area. Mind size. Like, oh, lini. Oh, okay. I know what linis are.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. So that's probably mine. What's your Mussolini.
Jam:You know, just Torillini.
Melissa:Oh, no. I never thought of that.
Jam:Just kidding.
Melissa:My sister said when she crossed the Italian border to visit Italy, they started speaking to her in Italian when she's they saw her last name, and she was like, no. No. No. No. Yeah.
Melissa:It's very it's much more common in In Italy and even at the American Chemical Society, I typed in my last name Uh-huh. Expecting to only find myself. Uh-huh. And there was an Italian chemist there whose name was also Collini, and I was like, this has never happened. Uh-huh.
Melissa:Anyway, so that was shocking.
Jam:That's crazy.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:Okay. So, I like snacks a lot. I specifically like more savory Snacks is my, like, my Achilles' heel or whatever you wanna say. So I love things like Flamin' Hot Cheetos. Spicy snacks are kinda my deal.
Jam:So jalapeno chips, Flamin' Hot Cheetos. There's a
Melissa:Jalapeno chips.
Jam:Yeah. Spicy, Cheez Its. Mhmm. Yeah. Salsa Verde Doritos.
Jam:Whatever the spicy nacho Doritos are.
Melissa:Those spicy nacho Doritos are good, but also have you tried the, Tapatio Doritos? Rhett and Link say those are the best.
Jam:I have not tried those, but I will have to. Salsa Verde used to be a lot more common. You used to find them, but they're just not nearly as, like not every supermarket has them or whatever. Those are really good. They're not as spicy.
Jam:There's a flavor that's like
Melissa:I tried those recently, be also because of Rhett and Link. Uh-huh. And it was too close to cool ranch in my opinion, and I had a bad experience eating cool ranch when I was younger, so it was, like, a little too Yeah.
Jam:There's a little bit of cool ranch just in there. I don't like cool ranch very much. To me, they're very overrated. But Yeah. The iteration that happens with the sauce fair day is, like, Yeah.
Jam:I'm I'm in for it. But, those are some of my faves. And, basically, if it's crunchy spicy, I'm kinda there.
Melissa:What about hot fries?
Jam:I haven't had those very much partly because my they just sound unappetizing to me. The hot part sounds good. I'm like, why? Fries are bad when they're not fresh. So why do I want fries that are in a bag?
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:I'm unclear on how they're different than Cheetos. Yeah. They seem the same.
Jam:The maybe they're not actually for the fries, and that might help.
Melissa:They're not. They're like chips.
Jam:Okay. Then you should try them. The Takis are like the kinda rolled
Melissa:Oh, yeah.
Jam:Those are good too. I've had those and the, Trader Joe's version. Very good. So, yeah, crunchy spicy.
Melissa:Mason loves hot fries, and I kinda make fun of him because I'm like, are you 12? And his cousin also made fun of him with me. She's like, he still eats those, because she grew up with Yeah. And then right after that, I was on TikTok, and there's a Lizzo video. And Mason was, like, near me when I was watching it, and he goes, she's eating hot fries.
Melissa:Lizzo eats hot fries. And I was like, dang it. I can't make fun of anyone. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:He's like, either you either
Jam:you wanna diss Lizzo or you wanna admit that Adults eat these too?
Melissa:Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So Lizzo eats hot fries, whatever.
Jam:That's very funny.
Melissa:So you would probably like them. They they very much are like Cheetos, only square, I think.
Jam:Okay. Interesting.
Melissa:I mean, it's like the shape is why they're called fries.
Jam:Yeah. I think that That to me, if they just felt something else, I would have been more down. But I just
Melissa:felt like get you a bag of hot fries and, like, put duct tape over it and rate sticks hot sticks?
Jam:Maybe so. Or yeah. Yeah. Like, hot potato sticks or something like that. Hot potato sticks.
Jam:Because, like, potato sticks, you know, different story. It's basically ruffles that are crumbled apart or whatever. Yeah. But, Yeah. The the fry idea because, like, nothing's worse than fries that have been anything longer than, Like, freshly made just now.
Jam:Yeah. Like, fries, 20 minutes after they're made are the worst thing in the world.
Melissa:Yeah. This is I thought that In N Out fries were bad, but actually you have to eat them literally immediately.
Jam:Or get them extra well done.
Melissa:I don't like extra crispy fries.
Jam:Oh, I do.
Melissa:Oh, okay. Well, on that disagreeable note. So last week or last month when we did our q and r, we had talked about that there was a negative review. But while Jim and I were talking about that, we realized, like, there are also so many positive reviews. And a podcast that I really like We'll read some of their positive reviews and shout out those listeners, and I decided that I wanted to do that too because it's fun.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So, we're gonna add this on. We'll do more this week than we probably will in the future or this month than we probably will in the future, but we just wanna share some happy reviews.
Jam:Yeah. Positivity. Put some positive vibes out there.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And thank these listeners for their encouragement because that's really helpful for us. So Yeah. When we when we do see these or read them and And or get notes from people that are encouraging. It's so helpful. So we're gonna read a few.
Jam:I'll read this first one from Jackie Dee. Jackie said, Hello. I was just listening to your episode, is glass a liquid, yesterday on my way home from my internship. And today, I'm reviewing lecture slides as I prepare to go back to classes next week, and the 1st lecture in my fundamentals of materials class is about crystalline and amorphous materials. Making these connections is one of my favorite parts about listening to your podcast, smiley face test tube.
Melissa:Yay. I love that one.
Jam:Can you read the next one?
Melissa:Yes. This is From this is on Apple Podcast review. The last 1, I think, was a message on face or on Instagram. This one's a Podcast review on Apple Podcasts. It's from user j g 1285 34.
Melissa:They said a great duo. They make chemistry fun. Just like the best educational podcasts out there, there is some conversation that is unrelated to the topic, But that's what makes it relatable. If they didn't, then it's just a lecture. That's so true.
Melissa:Keep it up, guys. And then they said, thanks for sharing your knowledge. PS, Having Jim explain things back to you has made me a better trainer at work and oddly helped me in my marriage by doing that with my wife in important conversations.
Jam:Nice. That is a good idea.
Melissa:Yes. I told someone what I I was in a group of people, and somebody said something, and I guess I kind of repeated back them what they said. Like, oh, so this happened? And one of the other people in the group was a counselor. And she said that's a counseling technique that Saying back or making sure the other person understands what you said is important in communication.
Melissa:So that's a good idea.
Jam:Yeah. This next one is from a user named a illig. I think that's right.
Melissa:Yeah. I think so.
Jam:I absolutely love this podcast. Melissa and Jam make chemistry fun as it should be. I've been to listen to this podcast while working from home and genuinely feel like I've Learn more about the world around me as a result. You can tell that Melissa puts careful preparation into her content, and she has a way of communicating difficult concepts in a way that's Easy to comprehend, which is hard to do without visual aids, especially with chemistry. And the dynamic with Jam is very fun.
Jam:He makes the show so light and fun and is a relatable layperson for Melissa to bounce ideas off of. I don't know these hosts personally, but at this point, I feel like I do, and I have so much respect for them. This show is perfect for those who love science and those who don't.
Melissa:That was so sweet. I was getting a little teary when they were saying that. Also, I have work from home too, so we can pretend like we're working from home together.
Jam:Yeah. And we hope that's the case. Like, we wanna feel relatable. That's why we, like, do the share about our weeks at the end and stuff. And 3, 1, I want that, which is totally fine.
Jam:But for those who who do and want some kind of, like, you know, levity and just whatever, Fun convo stuff mixed in with their science, then that we hope that that's something that some people want.
Melissa:Yeah. And That's part of why we do the bonus episodes that are longer and more casual. It's like, oh, then you get to know us. Yeah. The last 1 we'll we'll read is from User, I'm gonna say it's probably Inder, n e, like the Inder dragon in Minecraft.
Melissa:I don't know. Maybe not. It could be like Inder, or I don't know.
Jam:I have no idea.
Melissa:They said, I love the well delivered conversation, but informative style of this podcast. A must listen for anyone interested in chemistry like me or anyone curious about the world, also me. Keep up the good work. That's so sweet.
Jam:That's very sweet.
Melissa:So, yeah, we wanna highlight and lift up the people who support us As well as, you know, sometimes we get those negative reviews, but these really keep us going. And we really do just in emails, we read everyone, and they mean a lot to us. There have been times where we've wondered, like, are we doing anything? Are we Making a difference. Is it worth it to keep putting our time into this podcast?
Melissa:You know? It it really is hours out of our lives away from our families, away from our jobs. And, Consistently, we've come back with yes because we know the impact that it has on people because our listeners reach out. So Yep. Thank you all so much for for doing that.
Jam:Yeah. Sharing us doesn't to pump ourselves up at all in the sense of, like, hey, everyone. Look how good we're doing. But but just to show, 1, we wanna shout out people who who send us in stuff and kind comments and stuff like that. And just the involvement of you guys is the best.
Jam:And then also to, to just thank you for the encouragement, because like Melissa said, it keeps us going, keeps us feeling like what we're doing. This is a thing we can do. This thing we can fit into our weeks. We can we know how to Do this and juggle the rest of our lives, and this is the kind of show we can produce with the time and money we have right now. And to know that that is actually even as it is now is helpful and and useful to some of you guys He's really cool.
Jam:So thank you all for telling us that. And if you have, a question like we go through in these episodes or an idea or whatever, We love hearing those from you guys, and you can reach out to us on our website at kimforyourlife.com. That's kimforyourlife.com to share your thoughts, ideas, and questions. To help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, go to patreon.com/chem for your life or tap the link in our show notes or the description to join our super cool community of patrons. If you're not able to do that, you can still help us by subscribing to our favorite podcast app and rating and writing our view on Apple Podcasts or subscribing on YouTube Because I also have to share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of chemistry of your life was created by Melissa Calini and Jam Robinson, and Jam Robinson is our producer. This episode was made possible by our financial supporters over on Patreon, and it means so much to us that you want to help make chemistry accessible to even more people and that you support us financially, but also emotionally and mentally that we should keep going. Those supporters are Avishai B, Brie m, Brian k, Chris and Claire s, Chelsea b, Derek l, Emerson w, Hunter r, Jacob t, Christina g, Lynn s, Melissa p, Nicole c, Steven b, Shadow, Suzanne s, Timothy p, Venus r. Thanks again for everything that y'all do to make chemistry for your life happen.
Jam:Yay, chemistry.
Melissa:Yay, chemistry.
