How does baking soda eliminate odors?
Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday life.
Melissa:Okay, Jam. We have talked about baking soda, also known as sodium bicarbonate, many times before.
Jam:That's right. Yeah. We have.
Melissa:And today, we're gonna talk about how I maybe I mean, I didn't misrepresent, but how there's a gray area to baking soda.
Jam:Interesting. Even those white.
Melissa:Usually, we talk about it as a base. You know?
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:It's like a base, Then it'll react with an acid to produce carbon dioxide and water. Right. That's the volcano reaction. That's why cakes are fluffy.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:There's even a derivative of, that carbonate in our sparkling water that makes your beverages carbonated.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Yes. So we have a lot of I have had a lot of conversations around this, but we have not explored one little area of baking soda, and that's what we're gonna talk about today.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And I'm pretty hyped about it. I love finding chemistry that's like, oh, this is an everyday life thing, but Here's a subtlety that we haven't looked at before. You know?
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So what we're gonna talk about I guess our listeners already know because they can see You know, but you don't yet.
Jam:I don't know.
Melissa:Yesterday, we have, like, a weird smile in my fridge, and my put a little bowl of baking soda in there to neutralize or trap quote, unquote neutralize or quote, unquote trap the odors.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Have you heard that before?
Jam:I have, and we have a thing that we put in our fridge right out Okay. For that exact reason.
Melissa:Do you do you think it works?
Jam:You know, I don't know if it does or not.
Melissa:Do you have questions about how it might work?
Jam:Yeah. I guess so. I've also wondered, like, how long could, you know, one amount of baking soda stay in the fridge It keep doing its thing before you'd need a different kind. Because, like, we have something right now. I'm not sure how long have we put it in there.
Jam:I'm like, is it still Helping? Or should I change it out? Or they just, like, stir it up? You know? I don't know.
Melissa:Maybe stir it up. Yeah. That's a good question. We can explore that at the end once we've talked about what's happening with it.
Jam:But I know that, like, even baking soda companies or whatever, on the package, it even says things like, if you're gonna put this in your fridge, you can do this and that and this. Uh-huh. And so it's like they know that that's a way people use it. But even then, it's actually not really described how it works, of course. It's just They're assuming that you might want to try that.
Jam:So I think it's one of those tricks that we've all just kind of accepted that we think it works. Mhmm. And so we just do it.
Melissa:Well, it probably does work.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:He was like, oh, no. I'm about to get trapped.
Jam:Alright. So I was like, man, we just that's supposed to be sitting there doing nothing. There's placebo effect, but also seems like that wouldn't really wouldn't work for a smell because you'd know if it's gone or not. Yeah. So I
Melissa:don't know. Yeah. Maybe you just, like, actually have a really clean fridge, and you're just assuming it's helping. Right. Right.
Melissa:Okay. So Here's the thing. We've always talked about baking soda acting as a base before.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And, you know, when you put it with an acid like vinegar, it does the bubbling thing. And so we're like, baking soda is a base. It has a pH that's in the basic range. It's basic. Yeah.
Melissa:But there is kind of a gray area around this where it's not always a base. And we don't really talk about this a lot, I feel like, In our conversations or even really in classes, like in classes even, I think baking soda is still kind of considered a base. And it's also called sodium Carbonate, if it's paired with sodium, or sometimes just, bicarbonate or hydrogen By hydrogen carbonate, those are all options
Jam:that
Melissa:it could be called. So we don't really talk about this gray area very much, But we're gonna talk about it today.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:But to talk about it, I think we have to go all the way down to the subatomic level and think about the Structure of atom.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Are you ready?
Jam:I'm ready.
Melissa:Okay. So most atoms consist of 3 major parts. Do you know what they are? Listeners at home, see if you can get them too.
Jam:Protons? Yep. Neutrons? Those are together.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:Right? Up together?
Melissa:I think so. Yeah.
Jam:And then The electrons are it is a sort of field around.
Melissa:Like a cloud?
Jam:Like a cloud.
Melissa:Yeah. It's more like a There's a high probability of the electrons being in this area. You know? So we it's sort of like a an area where they mostly hang out.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But just like clouds, there's a lot of empty space too.
Jam:Were those the 3 parts you were looking for?
Melissa:Those were the 3 parts I was looking for. But now I wanna know if you know the charge on all those things.
Jam:Neutron, neutral?
Melissa:Nice.
Jam:Proton, positive?
Melissa:Yep.
Jam:Electron, negative? My middle school chemistry science person teacher, mister Wise, would be pretty glad because I think that's probably the first that I ever learning that stuff.
Melissa:Thanks, mister Wise.
Jam:That I'm assuming it's correct. That hasn't changed. Right?
Melissa:Yeah. No. That hasn't changed.
Jam:Mm-mm. Since whenever that was early 2000?
Melissa:Still the same. Okay. I do always take issue that is, like, Protons, positive, neutrons, and neutral. Why aren't they negatrons? Why are they electrons?
Melissa:You know?
Jam:Wow. Yeah. Interesting.
Melissa:They're like, I don't know. Like, neutrons, protons, negative something.
Jam:Yeah. That is interesting.
Melissa:And the in in new in neutron always tricks me. I'm like I'm like, protons positive, neutrons negative, then I'm like, wait. No. That's not right.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:But it just rolls off the tongue. You know? So that's always made me a little bit mad. Yeah. Anyhoo, so that's my little, side sidebar.
Melissa:So most atoms, Yes. Consists of those 3 things. The number of neutrons can change
Jam:K.
Melissa:And the molecules or the atom sorry. The atom will still say neutral, And that's called an isotope. So if you've ever heard of isotopes before, it's, an atom that maybe has different numbering of, neutrons present, and so they call that isotope. But it's still considered the same atom, like
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:If it has different numbers of neutrons. Okay. Still considered the same atom. And then electrons, we talk about all the time. Electrons are, like, just going crazy.
Melissa:They're interacting with things. They make bonds when they make things attracted to each other a lot of times where there'll be, like, excess electrons over here, and they they're yeah. Electrons are moving all the time, and you can gain and lose electrons, And all it does is change the charge of your atom.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And then protons, I feel like, are kind of the main identity of the atom. So protons you can't you can't change the number of protons without changing which atom it would be on like, which element on the periodic table it would be.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So That's kind of the basics of atoms. Hydrogen is special though. Because hydrogen do you know why hydrogen's special? I think we talked about it on the episode of baking soda versus versus baking powder, but it that was a long time ago. I don't
Jam:know if I know why it's special other than that. I mean, maybe it'll be, like, oh, we have that about that. We should just say it, but I don't know.
Melissa:Hydrogen doesn't have neutrons. Oh. Hydrogen is just a proton and an electron. Weird. It's weird.
Melissa:There's isotopes of hydrogen where, for example, like, deuterium has 1 neutron and tritium has 2 neutrons. So those are isotopes of hydrogen. And then there's the hydrogen that only has 1 proton, 1 electron.
Jam:Can you remember me the the name of what things are when they have different electrons? Same element with different electrons?
Melissa:Ions. Ions.
Jam:That's right. That's right. Yeah. Sorry. You said isotopes Earlier?
Jam:And I was like, wait. What's the other one though whenever the electrons are different?
Melissa:That was a good question.
Jam:And then I forgot. So okay. I.
Melissa:Yeah. If it's positively charged, it's a cation because cats have paws.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Negatively charged, it's an anion, and I don't have a good way to remember that.
Jam:Because ants don't.
Melissa:I have, The ants are negative. Right. Yeah.
Jam:Most situations, we don't like them.
Melissa:I mean but they probably delicately contribute or Carefully contribute to the delicate balanced ecosystem.
Jam:That's true.
Melissa:I often wonder about, like, what if we just yeah. Somebody asked what if we got rid of all mosquitoes for the podcast?
Jam:And I
Melissa:was like, probably something bad. Although I I know. I wish we could get rid of them. Yeah. Okay.
Melissa:So that's why hydrogen is special is because it is just 1 proton and 1 electron. And that means if Hydrogen loses its electron and becomes a cation
Jam:Mhmm. Because
Melissa:if you lost an electron, you're positive. That means it's just literally that the cation of hydrogen is just a proton floating around.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So the way I think of it is, like, most most times, you know, you could think of atoms, yeah, like, as having kind of a core, and there's positive and neutral Particles subatomic particles there and then surrounded by this cloud of electrons, and the electrons can kinda do what they want, whatever. But and then if you lose electrons, then you become positively charged. If you gain them, you become negatively charged, but the protons don't really move.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So the idea that instead of at the core, there being, like, several, you know, protons, really all that's happening in a hydrogen atom is it's like One proton with 1 electron hanging out around it.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And that's actually why the Bohr model of the atom works well only for hydrogen. Because once more electrons come into play, it starts to get a lot more confusing. And
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So but that is the Bohr model of the atom is actually good for hydrogen. You can kinda picture that in your head of, like, that's the one, like, on Big Bang Theory Uh-huh. Where they have, like, one thing in the Center and then, like, a quote, unquote electron circling around it on, like, those little tracks.
Jam:Right. Right. We haven't I think I need to talk about I haven't seen the big bang theory, but I know That classic, like, image that you're talking
Melissa:about. Like the classic image, I would say. So then hydrogen, you know, Is is just when it loses its electron, it's just a little proton, nothing circling it. So that's kinda weird. You know?
Jam:That is weird.
Melissa:And, Actually, there's a whole area of chemistry, of acid based chemistry that defines acids and bases around those protons, around those Positively charged hydrogens, which are basically just 1 single proton floating around.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:And that is the Most basic definition for an acid and a base that you probably did learn in high school chemistry.
Jam:Mhmm. And
Melissa:it's that an acid is willing to give up a Hydrogen plus a hydrogen cation, also known as just a proton.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And a base is able to accept a proton. It's able to accept an h plus.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And that is the most sort of basic definition of acids and bases that we learn first before we learn any other definition of them.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So, you know, in chemistry, an acid can give up a hydrogen, but that that acid will usually keep the electrons, making it negative after it's given up the hydrogen.
Jam:K.
Melissa:Unless it was positive to begin with, then it becomes neutral. So it becomes more negative when it gives up its proton. It keeps the electrons.
Jam:K.
Melissa:And a base will usually accept the proton. So it'll have an excess of electrons, Usually negative, but sometimes, I guess, it can be neutral, and it will accept that proton and become more positive or less negative.
Jam:Right. Right. Right. Okay. This always kinda interesting to me because I think, for some reason, the way I think about acids and bases Mhmm.
Jam:This is counter what I would expect for some reason.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:I don't know why. But, like, I would assume that the acid is already negative. Mhmm. But actually the opposite is they got this abundance of Positivity. Correct?
Jam:That it really wants and needs some electrons to balance it out.
Melissa:Yes. It's
Jam:ready to accept them. And for some reason, I was at the really stop and make myself think about that contrast.
Melissa:Because there's another definition that you also learned in high school chemistry called the Lewis acid and base definition. And it's like the Lewis acid is an electron acceptor. So I bet you mixed up the proton and electron on what's accepting and what's giving.
Jam:Well, I don't even and I'm and maybe I did learn that. I just forgot it. But there's something about the way I think about acids and, like, Battery acid and say that that makes it oh, it's probably, like, real negative and stuff. You know?
Melissa:Probably because also it's caustic. It's like burning stuff. But bases are caustic too. So
Jam:Yeah. And you've yeah. You've balanced that out. And also, I think it's just that most of us feel more familiar with acids than bases anyway. So, you know, At least we think that.
Jam:But
Melissa:Yeah. Isn't that weird? I feel like people know what an acid is, but people don't know what a base is.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So, like, if I'm like, Oh, that's really acidic. You know, that's scarier than being really basic kind of? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
Jam:It's weird. But anyway.
Melissa:Bases are just as scary people, just so you know.
Jam:It's helpful to have that rehashed because it's like I said, it's, like, it's counter what my brain wants to think for some reason.
Melissa:Yeah. Acids are willing to give up a proton, and they'll be okay once they've given up that hydrogen and kept its electrons behind. And bases are willing to accept the proton. And I like to think of it as like It's it's not like you're an acid or you're not. It's really more like on a sliding scale.
Melissa:You know? Like, how willing are you to give up this proton?
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Are you gonna be okay once it's gone? Like, it it sort of has to do with, like, wealth and stability in my mind. Like, are you able to give up $50 and it not really affect you because you have all these other, like, sources of income or whatever that'll keep you stable. If there's Other places you can distribute the leftover electrons. You know?
Melissa:Mhmm. If you have these certain features of a molecule that will be able to support What's left over when the proton leaves
Jam:Right.
Melissa:That makes it more acidic.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And and you can be really acidic where you're really willing to give up a hydrogen or A hydrogen cation or a proton where you'll be more stable once it's gone. Or all the way on the other end, you can be very basic where You don't have a proton to give up. Like, losing your proton would make you so incredibly unstable. It's nearly impossible. So I I kind of think of it on that scale.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And it's like a willingness to give up or take. And there are weaker acids that, You know, they can they can give it up, but maybe they'd prefer not to. And then there's stronger acids, which are, like, really willing to to get rid of their proton and same thing with basis. They're really willing to accept or less willing to accept.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. And you're probably like, what does all this have to do with smells? Because, at the point that I was writing this, I forgot that that's even where we were going. Yeah. I was, like, preparing this episode and thinking, wait, why am I talking about this?
Jam:Yeah. I guess I'm not I'm not getting the smells connection yet either, which probably make sense. It's probably not intuitive until you make it make the connection for you. Yeah.
Melissa:It's on its way. Don't worry.
Jam:Okay. Alright.
Melissa:Okay. So that's a little bit about what an atom is like, What acids and bases are. And, I I guess I talk about atoms and protons at at the individual level, but molecules are collections of atoms that are willing to give up, you know, one of those hydrogens as a proton rather than, like, thinking an atom giving up its proton. It doesn't do that. It gives it up in the form a collection of atoms gives up a proton in the form of a hydrogen
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Plus cation is kind of how it's represented in chemistry.
Jam:And is it possible for that to all happen and it'd be not hydrogen?
Melissa:So that's where the different definition of acids come in, where it's like, Something can accept electrons
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And it have no hydrogens, but that's considered a type of acid. So it it's missing electrons that it wants or can take on, but it's not really in the form of a hydrogen.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So a really good example of that is like a pretty strong Lewis acid is called aluminum trichloride. Mhmm. And just The way that the molecule is is the aluminum only has 6 electrons around it, but it wants 8. But, technically, it's all neutral. It just doesn't have the right number of electrons to fill that outer shell, which is a whole other episode and kind of down Rabbit hall hole.
Melissa:So this is confusing. You don't have to worry about it.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But that type of acid wants electrons, but it's not producing a proton. And that makes sense.
Jam:That makes sense. I think my question the reason that was in my mind, I'm glad we at least touched on it for a second, was me thinking this is so specific to hydrogens, but I was like, surely, there's a lot of
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Durations were actually it's not hydrogen at play, but they're still an acid.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And but in this case, We're talking about hydrogen. And this one
Melissa:We're talking about acids defined by hydrogens.
Jam:Got it. Okay.
Melissa:And they're because there's no other way to give up a proton. Because if you give up a proton, it would change the nature of the individual atom. Right. So when you're giving up protons, that's a hydrogen.
Jam:Right. You're giving up a hydrogen
Melissa:Minus its electron.
Jam:Electron. Yep.
Melissa:Yep. Okay. And that's the definition of that acid we're talking about today. So if that sidebar was confusing, That was a good question. So for other people wondering it, I'm glad we answered.
Melissa:But if that sidebar was confusing, you can ignore it because it was about a different type of Acid. Yeah.
Jam:I think for me and maybe a couple of people, it's like the idea of thinking about acids specifically revolving around hydrogen only seems like I don't know the acids that are out there, but surely they're not all specifically revolving around hydrogen.
Melissa:Lewis agreed with you. That's why we have Lewis acid.
Jam:Nice. Thank you, Lewis. I just, You know, we just we we were on the same wavelength.
Melissa:Right. You know? Definitely. I mean,
Jam:you you had to figure out. I don't know how to figure out, but you you had the same hypothesis that Surely, it's not all hydrogens.
Melissa:Surely. I actually don't know if Lewis what his first name is. I think I'm assuming it's a person, but I should probably know that. I'm not I don't have the history of chemistry just right in my head.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. So back to our, Smells in our baking soda.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:We have always said baking soda is a base. Mhmm. And baking soda is, it's got a A positive charge sodium, but then it's also negatively charged. So if you if you kind of think of separating out, you know, how in salt you have, like, NaCl?
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:Really, it's NA plus and CL minus, and they just hang out near each other because one's positive and one's negative.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So similarly, in baking soda, you have n a plus, like a positive sodium. That's why it's baking soda.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:And then the other part of it is, hydrogen carbonate. So there's h and then c o three.
Jam:K.
Melissa:And that is negatively charged. So that's why it has a sodium with it.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:So that's baking soda, and baking soda's kind of in a family.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So think about just the CO three unit. So we've talked about this a lot. This is a carbonate ion.
Jam:K.
Melissa:So it's c o three two minus. So it has 2 extra electrons. And sometimes we counterbalance those out, the with a positively charged Ion, like sodium plus. Mhmm. And we just put 2 around there.
Melissa:Sometimes it accepts a proton, so it can have 1 hydrogen and 1 sodium.
Jam:K.
Melissa:And then that balances out the 2 negative charges, or sometimes it has 2 hydrogens.
Jam:K. So you
Melissa:have this this unit, this Carbonate unit that has 2 negative charges, and it wants 2 positive charges.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So Sodium carbonate, the very basic one, c o three two minus, usually has 2 sodiums around it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:It's in a salt form. It's very basic. It reacts very strongly to get a proton.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And when it does gain a proton, it now is called sodium bicarbonate or sodium hydrogen carbonate.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So there's 1 sodium still counteracting the negative charge, and 1 proton has been added to the molecule.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:That's baking soda.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So the sodium one of the sodium has been basically replaced by hydrogen.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And then if you keep going and you add another hydrogen to it, Now there's 2 hydrogens around this, like, kind of core c o three unit, and it's now neutral, and it's called carbonic acid.
Jam:Right. And that is in our sodas.
Melissa:Yep. That's right. That's in our sodas.
Jam:That's one of those, like, the episodes that we have done that has come up in conversation a ton.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:So that one's at least some of that is it fresh
Melissa:We will break down into water and carbon dioxide because it's not really a happy molecule.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And that's actually why called acid. It's neutral, but it's willing to give up a proton because it's not the happiest acid.
Jam:Got it. Okay.
Melissa:You know? It's like, It'll quickly break down. It basically won't stay car carbonic acid as long as possible. It's like as quickly as I can, it won't be carbonic acid anymore. Okay.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:Okay. So That's kind of like if you wanna think of it as stair steps or a family, the CO three two minus, h c o three with one minus, And then h 2 c 03, neutral.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So they kind of are in increasing stair steps.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:The one in the middle, That's baking soda.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. If it gains a proton, It becomes carbonic acid
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Which then breaks down into CO 2 and water, and that's why it Will react with an acid to make the volcano.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And that's why it will react with an acid to make the volcano.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:It just does the all the bubbles. Okay. But it can also Lose an but it can also lose a proton and go down on the stair steps.
Jam:Oh, right. And become even more basic?
Melissa:And become even more basic and become that c o three two minus. It goes from having 1 hydrogen or 1 proton to having none.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And we don't talk about that aspect of baking soda very often.
Jam:Right. Because good reason.
Melissa:Because it doesn't happen very often. For good reason. Yes. Because not
Jam:allowed to talk about that.
Melissa:It's just it's just usually doesn't do that because you're it's interacting with assets a lot more in our day to day life. Right. So we don't spend a lot of time Seeing baking soda act as an acid, it would have to be paired with an even stronger base for it to act as an acid and give up that hydrogen that it's just 1.
Jam:Oh, I see. I see. Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So if you put baking soda with an acid, it acts as a base, And it will take that extra proton from the acid.
Jam:Got
Melissa:it. But if you put baking soda with a stronger base
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:It will act as an acid and give up its extra proton and go back to having no protons.
Jam:Got it. Okay. Okay.
Melissa:So it's kind of like It has no protons, and then it has 1, and then it has 2, and baking soda is just in the middle with 1. So it can add 1 or subtract 1. It can go up a step or down a step.
Jam:And as it is right now, and it's state before you've added anything to it, it's content to stay in the place it's in. Whatever it's being presented with.
Melissa:Yeah. And it's the intent to be in the state it's in because there's a sodium ion near it
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:That's also hanging out.
Jam:Got it. Has anyone made a joke in chemistry about baking soda being basin calling it basting soda or something like that? It's, like, not really a pun, but it could kinda help you remember it.
Melissa:No. I mean, not that I know of. K. But I will say that those the, like, sodium that's just, like, by it, that's just, like, helping it out Uh-huh. Is called a spectator ion.
Melissa:Like, it doesn't really participate in much that's happening, and it it will eventually find another ion that's oppositely charged it, and everything will kind of even out. And so it's just like a spectator. It's not really involved in life. I know. It just hangs out.
Melissa:I also think that sodium bicarbonate is a really confusing name because it's only one Sodium.
Jam:Okay. Right. So I
Melissa:don't know why there's a buy there. I bet somebody would be able to tell me. I'm like, I don't know why it's called sodium bicarbonate, and the one with 2 sodiums has It's just called sodium carbonate. That's a confusing thing in chemistry that has always bothered me.
Jam:Yeah. Weird.
Melissa:I'm sure there's a good reason, but I can't think of it right now.
Jam:If it's confusing to a chemist, can you you guys got can you imagine how confused I am?
Melissa:Well, to be fair, it's been confusing to me since I was in high school. I remember 1st learning this and being like, this makes me mad, and I've never satisfactorily found a way to reverse the anger, which means it's persisted.
Jam:Is the bi you're referring to anything else? There's a 2 something else specifically? There's not 2 of in the other one? That's so strange.
Melissa:Think so, because it's just 1 hydrogen and 1 carbonate unit. Maybe maybe. That's so weird. Maybe.
Jam:Man.
Melissa:Man, I should probably know. But just for the record, I teach organic chemistry. I don't teach general or inorganic chemistry. So, Honestly, sodium bicarbonate does not come up a lot.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Any sodium carbonates don't come up a lot. Anyway, Back to the back to the main event. Yes. This is a little side a side a side what are those called? A side tangent.
Melissa:Yeah. Side quest.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Okay. So you're probably still wondering
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:What does this have to do with Smells.
Jam:Yeah. Are all our smells basic? Are all our smells acidic? Or it's like, what's the deal here? What's going on with these smells?
Melissa:Well, often when foods begin to spoil, They do emit volatile organic compounds
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Which are either acidic or basic.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:There are both. And for reference, I looked up cigarette smoke if that was acidic or basic, and it depends on the way the tobacco is cured. Fascinating. Right?
Jam:Yeah. It's weird That'll be that different? Mhmm.
Melissa:So what baking soda does is it can react with the acids And then change them into literally into something else that isn't as smelly
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:Or it can react with strong bases that are stronger bases in itself that are gonna steal its proton that it has Right. And make them less smelly than they were before.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:It literally can do both. And that property of being considered acid or base Mhmm. Or, like, being able to act differently in different situations is called Amphoteric.
Jam:Amphoteric. Mhmm.
Melissa:And so baking soda, because it's amphoteric, it can literally neutralize. It doesn't Really trap as far as I know. Like, on the episode we did with odor eliminators
Jam:Oh, right. Right.
Melissa:Where it literally is trapping those molecules. It doesn't trap them. It neutralizes them by literally reacting with them.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:If they're acidic, it acts as a base. If they're basic, it acts as an acid. And fundamentally changes that molecule so that it no longer has those really acrid smells.
Jam:Got it.
Melissa:And that's how baking soda acts as an odor eliminator.
Jam:Wow. Interesting. I'm guessing there are probably some smells that, like, You could you could react with them, and it takes electrons away or or adds them or whatever. There may still be a smell.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:But it's probably gonna make a difference of some sort. Right.
Melissa:And it also has to come if you think about it at the molecular level. So, like, imagine being a tiny person inside your fridge.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:But don't actually get inside your fridge because you could suffocate because it's an airtight.
Jam:Right. Right. Right. Okay. A be Italian person, but Don't get my fridge.
Melissa:Yeah. Especially if there was kids listening that my mom used to really freak me out about that.
Jam:Oh, yeah. I remember my mom too. Because there are so many stories when I was a kid that like The happening.
Melissa:Yeah. Especially, they would like, in, like, a junkyard and stuff. Kids would go play
Jam:Right.
Melissa:In, like, a ban in
Jam:Yep.
Melissa:Like, somebody just tossed their refrigerator out.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So, if there's kids listening, don't do that. But imagine yourself as a tiny person inside your fridge. It's an enclosed space. And if you could see the molecules in the air, they're really, really tiny, but they're all just moving around in there. Mhmm.
Melissa:And in order for the reaction happen, the volatile organic compound literally has to come into contact with the baking soda. And so that's not happening just all the time.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So there may still be a little bit of a smell, but it is likely still neutralizing. So I would think it would work best actually if you had it, like, in a shallow dish on several shelves.
Jam:Mhmm. But
Melissa:is it practical to have a bunch of open shelves of baking powder? Probably not.
Jam:Probably not.
Melissa:But so that That's part of it is the there may be smells that that interact with it and stay a little bit smelly, or Maybe not all the molecules are gonna come into contact with the baking soda.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But what it does come into contact with, it should neutralize.
Jam:K.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:Okay. I think I get it.
Melissa:Alright. Do you wanna take a stab at it?
Jam:Yes. I I think the hardest part for me is gonna be The structure, which I'm guessing you don't really need me to say all that back, but the remembering the different The molecular structure and how it can change, that's so hard for me.
Melissa:Okay. Let me help you.
Jam:And I also thought There's, like, very rare times if you're a listener out there. I don't ever take notes in this
Melissa:Oh, yeah.
Jam:Show. That was one of those times where, like, the hap that happens every, you know, every so often. My oh, man. Taking some notes with super help. Just in this scenario where I'm just listening audibly only and no Visual or trying to create my own visual while we're going, you know, which is kinda challenging.
Melissa:I think I have a way that I can help you.
Jam:Okay. Do you
Melissa:want me to give it to you?
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:Okay. So you can imagine the carbonate, the c o three with 2 negative charges like a Mickey Mouse head.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So imagine a Mickey Mouse head, And it's got its 2 little ears. And if you took those ears each off Mhmm.
Jam:And
Melissa:it left behind a negative charge, it would want a positive charge or, like, It would, yeah, want a positive charge to come back and neutralize it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So it wants its Mickey Mouse ears back.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So sodium carbonate Has no Mickey Mouse ears. C o three two minus. Baking soda in the middle has 1 ear.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:And then the carbonic acid has both ears. It's actually not very stable in that form either. But
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:So so the one with only 1 Mickey Mouse ear Can either go up and and have both of its ears, or it could go down and have neither of its ears and just be a circle.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Does that help?
Jam:Yes. Kind of.
Melissa:It's like it it's missing 2 things. Yeah. And it wants it will eventually gain both of them. But while it's in that Intermediates say it could gain 1 or lose 1.
Jam:Got it. Got it.
Melissa:If if a bigger bully if someone who's stronger comes along as like, that's my Mickey Mouse here, and I'm missing 1 too. It'll just rip it right off.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But it but if someone that the the Mickey Mouse original guy could bully comes along, he's like, now I'm gonna get my 2nd Mickey Mouse ear. It's just a bunch of violent bullies in the acid base community.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. It's intense in there.
Melissa:Okay. So that's my very brief analogy. I wanna hear you explain it back because I do think this is an ab this is one of the most abstract concepts we've done. I remember feeling that way when we first talked about baking soda.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And so we're revisiting it now. Maybe I'm better 4 years down the line.
Jam:Here's one thing that's kind of that's come to my mind a little bit that might help at least me understand, even if it's not a better now to than what you already did. But it's just what if you're somebody, And you have 1 shoe.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:And you don't really need 1 shoe. Right? So, honestly, if you got the 1 shoe, you're you're okay to sell it. You're down to sell the shoe. I was thinking about this because I was looking at, secondhand clothes the other day online.
Jam:And there are actually several times we will find just 1 shoot for sale. Mhmm. I saw it actually several times. Usually, it's because somebody only needed 1 because They, had to buy 1 for their prosthetic
Melissa:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Jam:Or for their foot that doesn't wear the that isn't prosthetic. Yeah. Anyway, long story. But, So you got the 1 shoe. You don't need 1 shoe, most of us.
Jam:So you're willing to part with it and sell it. Or if somebody came along and actually have The other shoe? Yeah. You then then your situation changes, and you're actually willing to take on the other shoe. Yep.
Jam:But as it is with just the 1 shoe, you kinda would rather have Not the shoe Mhmm. At all or both? Yep. And so baking soda finds itself in place with the Structure that it has of being of 1 shoe. Mhmm.
Jam:And if an Acid comes along.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:It's willing to Give up the shoe in that case.
Melissa:Close. Dang it. Acids I
Jam:knew it was gonna get mixed up on that.
Melissa:Acids give Give the protons. So as it gives the shoes
Jam:Okay. Okay. Right. Right. Because the proton is changing hands here.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:So it the hydrogen that doesn't have an electron is moving from one place to another. Yep. So it's taking on the shoe. Uh-huh. It interacts with an acid.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And if it interacts with the bass that's stronger Uh-huh. Than it, then it gives up the shoe.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And from there, in the in the case of this is a perfect situation in Depending on the odor and smell Yeah.
Melissa:With the
Jam:volatile organic compounds. And so that is great that baking soda can go Either direction with
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Its shoe situation. It probably doesn't cover all odors perfectly.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:But it makes it much more versatile than Maybe just any other old bass
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:That you could you could find up in your fridge.
Melissa:That's a really good analogy. I'm gonna expand on it a little.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Because I feel like there's some subtleties that didn't quite get captured, and this is a good analogy to do it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:I think that If you have 1 shoe, in the case of baking soda, it would rather have 2 than have none. Okay. So it it does more easily Accept a shoe, then give up that shoe. So maybe it's outside and it's you know, in the summer in Texas, it's pretty hot on the concrete. So maybe it's like, it would be better if I had 2 shoes.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:But if if a stronger base comes along like a bully, He's like, fine, man. Take my other shoe. It's not that big of a deal. I just walk in the grass. Yep.
Melissa:Yeah. But really, you know
Jam:trouble. Here's the shoe.
Melissa:Yep. Yeah. Yes. But, really, you know, you'd rather have 2 shoes in the summer in Texas. Right.
Jam:And even in any scenario, if you're actually yeah. If the other option is 0 shoes, probably would always prefer
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:2 shoes.
Melissa:Yeah. Yeah. So in but it is okay with 1 shoe, and I can't figure out a good Reason in the analogy that we're fine with 1 shoe. Yeah. Maybe he has fashioned some sort of Yeah.
Melissa:Shoe out of sodium, a salt shoe. Or like
Jam:I think if I had just 1 shoe, I think I'd kinda be, like, I'm just not I'm gonna just throw this away. Right?
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And it's perfectly a good shoe.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:I'm not gonna throw it away. I'm just I'll hang on to it.
Melissa:And maybe I'll find
Jam:If I find somebody who needs this other shoe, great. Cool.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:But if I find the other shoe that matches this one, best scenario.
Melissa:Yeah. I think it is kinda like that.
Jam:Perfectly good shoe. I love the shoe. Yeah. Love it. Okay.
Melissa:And there is a way that you can you can just put baking soda on, like, on a baking sheet and bake it at 400 degrees. Uh-huh. And it will react with itself to make The no shoes situation. It'll make sodium carbonates.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:Yeah. If you give it enough heat. So It, like, really needs energy to get to that. Yeah. It doesn't want that.
Melissa:Yeah. But so I thought that was a very little interesting thing. And I hadn't really thought about why we put baking soda in our fridge until today.
Jam:Yeah. Interesting.
Melissa:So that was a Fun little trip down. Why would we do this, Lane? Speaking of fun trips, I'm gonna usurp you. And instead of asking you a question first, I'm gonna say that I took a fun trip this weekend.
Jam:You did. And it's okay for you to usurp because I don't not in a position of A sort of power opinion over the situation. And I welcome your, your sharing of your story of your trip.
Melissa:Okay. So this is transitioning into our happy time. I took a trip this weekend, with it was me and my husband and 2 of our friends, And we went to Mexico City, and then we, traveled from Mexico City. We did a day trip in Southern Monarch butterfly
Jam:Migration. Nice.
Melissa:And it was insane. It was so cool. I really appreciated it. And my friend oh, Y'all know my friend because she's come on the show. Mhmm.
Melissa:Friend of the show guest expert, Vianette. She is originally from Mexico, and so she was Sharing about her culture, and it was so fun to get to participate in in her culture and to be in a different country. And It was only a 2 and a half hour plane ride, which is less time than it takes to drive to most places in Texas. Yeah.
Jam:We got a 100%.
Melissa:And the food was delicious. It was so fun. And so I had a really good trip this weekend, and that's my fun thing.
Jam:That's awesome.
Melissa:I also am gonna break the rules and say another fun thing.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Just because
Jam:We'll see.
Melissa:Just because I want to.
Jam:Go ahead and say it, and then if I don't like it, I'll just cut it out.
Melissa:Yeah. That's I'm like, add that back in. He's like, no. Yeah. And I have no recourse to Add it back.
Jam:I really could make you sound horrible. Yeah. And I could make
Melissa:And wrong and dumb.
Jam:Yep. I could make all your signs not make any sense. Yeah. I really wanted to.
Melissa:That's true. You're really good.
Jam:But sorry. Go ahead.
Melissa:So, also, a little bit of exciting news. Today, my paper that I wrote in a peer reviewed journal, during my dissertation work or during my PhD was officially published.
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:And it was published in the Royal Society of Chemistry Magazine, chemistry education, research, and practice. And they have worked with us as sponsors for the show before, and we have other really good podcast called Chemistry World where it kinda goes in-depth on different molecules. So That was fun and cool and a great connection.
Jam:That is awesome. Dang it. Both those things are super cool.
Melissa:Yeah. Sorry. I was like, I can't pick 1, so I'm just gonna give both. That's totally fine.
Jam:And, also, I our friends with that you wouldn't see the monarch butterflies with, they've gone many times. Every time, always amazing pictures. Amazing. Videos, all kind of stuff, so I'm jealous you got to do that. I'm never gonna forgive you.
Jam:Doesn't
Melissa:it? Once your kids get older, I feel like that would be a doable trip with kids, actually. Totally. It'd be really, really cool.
Jam:I mean, that 2 and a half hour plane ride sounds, like, amazing. I mean, it sounds
Melissa:The hardest part is it's a it was a 3 hour drive to the
Jam:Right.
Melissa:To the sanctuary where the butterflies are, but You can get, like, a charter bus. Right. And then, you know, kids think buses are cool.
Jam:Oh, yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. So I understand. I think that would be a doable trip with kids. Yeah. And Noted.
Melissa:That's a good point. Amazing.
Jam:And then I'll forgive you once I've been there and I've seen it all
Melissa:Is it okay? You don't yeah. You can hold that grudge against me. It was way worth
Jam:Okay. Mine is a lot less cool than both your things. Mhmm. We knew that going in. We knew that after you said yours.
Melissa:Maybe I should have Let you go first so I didn't you know?
Jam:It's okay. I mean, your yours were more exciting, and so you wanted to get them out and make more sense.
Melissa:It was so hard to hold them in. So
Jam:mine is simply that. I think I talked maybe I wanna say I talked on the podcast. I wanna share one of these. That I started baking some banana muffins again. Banana bread muffins
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Recently,
Melissa:And I was supposed to send you the blueberry muffin recipe, and I never did.
Jam:Yep. And another reason, just add that to the pile of things just to hold against you.
Melissa:So Send
Jam:that to me. But what I did do the day, I was just curious. I was like, I wonder if I could If I have all the things to make chocolate chip cookies from scratch, which I've never done before, I know it's
Melissa:You've never done before?
Jam:No. And I know it's not that hard, but I just I'd never Been curious enough.
Melissa:Listen. I'm not gonna shame you for it. I'm just saying that's exciting that if you're Yeah. You're talking about doing something you've never done before. That's, like, not every day.
Jam:I know. And I found an recipe that was the easiest one. It was even called, like, the easiest chocolate chip recipe ever. Touch a cookie recipe ever.
Melissa:The Nestle one is a go to.
Jam:So I looked at it, and it was all easy. Didn't need to have a mixer. I don't know what the what the variety of different recipes for chocolate chip cookies r, but this one was super simple. And I did it so fast and didn't even tell in what I was doing. And just, like, whenever there, I think Threw it in.
Jam:Didn't tell her Em loved surprises, so I even small things like this, like, that make surprises. And then I just pulled out this cast iron top with Turkish cookie.
Melissa:Nice.
Jam:That I'd made from scratch. And she was like, I didn't think we had any cookie dough. I was like, I know. I just made it.
Melissa:Oh my gosh. Was she so excited?
Jam:Yes. She was. And it was quite good. Did you eat
Melissa:it with some ice cream?
Jam:Oh, yeah. 100%. So
Melissa:I love that.
Jam:That was really fun. And I was like, okay. I'm not a huge I've always said I'm not, like, so huge into baking. I like cooking more than I like baking. Yeah.
Jam:But, you know, this is just the toe in the water thing. Yeah. The muffins, the or the gateway into, like oh, wait. What about chocolate chip cookies? What about this?
Jam:What about that? And here I am Making stuff like that and looking for excuses to bake other things. Yeah. So who am I? You know?
Melissa:Who are you? That's excite I think that's more exciting for me than you realize. I'm really excited about that. I also recently made chocolate chip cookies for a party like a like a girls' weekend I was going on. Uh-huh.
Melissa:And I made them from scratch, which normally I just get the Nesli cookie dough because it's so easy. But I made some because it was cheaper. Yeah. Yeah. Because eggs are even even with eggs being expensive, everything has gotten
Jam:more expensive.
Melissa:And it was actually really surprisingly quick. And I thought, Why don't I do this more often?
Jam:Totally. And I've been replacing the eggs because my son is allergic to eggs. Even though, actually, most things, They're cooked really well. It doesn't actually matter if perfect him?
Melissa:Yeah. Like baked goods. Yeah.
Jam:Usually, it's not a problem, but that is being expensive. I've been using apple sauce Instead
Melissa:Oh, yeah. I've heard that's good.
Jam:And on topic, actually, I found an article that talked about how apple sauce changes the Consistency just a little bit, and it makes it more dense. And so they say to add a little bit of baking powder.
Melissa:Just a little Should I Yeah. To lighten it up.
Jam:Lighten up a little bit so it can kind of create a little bit more air pockets Oh. Than what the I guess, what
Melissa:What's naturally in there?
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. What egg what you'd need if you just did egg and set
Melissa:up a song. Yeah. That makes sense.
Jam:So, anyway, that's been some chemistry at play There
Melissa:How fun.
Jam:In the baking. Obviously, there's tons of chemistry at play, but, you know
Melissa:Well, that's a good one. Thanks, Jam. Thanks for telling me your baking hacks. I will always go baking, and I'm so excited that you're finally getting into the world of baking with me.
Jam:Me too.
Melissa:It was a matter of time. I already you the blueberry recipe, so you can do that.
Jam:Excellent.
Melissa:And thanks to all of your listeners, and a special thanks to listener Katie Jordan who asked me about baking soda today, which kind of got my mind going down this path. So she didn't ask the question specifically, but just asked The different chemistry question that got the wheels turning. So thanks, Katie. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, all of our listeners for learning about about the chemistry of baking soda.
Jam:And thank you for teaching us. And if you have questions or ideas, things you wonder about if there chemistry in your everyday life, please reach out to us On our website atchemforyourlife.com. That's kem, f o r, your life.com to share your thoughts and ideas. Like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, go to patreon.com/chem for your life or tap the link in our show notes to join our super cool community of patrons. If you're not able to do that, you could still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast app and rating and writing our review on Apple Podcasts.
Jam:That also helps us share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of Chemistry Free Life was created by Melissa Coleenie and J. M. Robinson. Jam Robinson is our producer, and this episode was made possible by our financial supporters over on Patreon. It means so much to us that you wanna help make chemistry accessible to even more people.
Melissa:Those supporters are Abhisheie B, Brie M, Brian K, Chris and Claire S, Chelsea B, Derek l, Emerson w, Hunter r, Jacob t, Christina g, Lynn s, Melissa p, Nicole c, Steven b, shadow, Suzanne s, Sam n, Steven b, Timothy p, and Venus r. Thanks again for everything you do to make chemistry free life happen.
Jam:I would also like to give a special thanks to our team of reviewers who reviewed this episode. And if you'd like to learn more about today's chemistry lesson, check out the references for this episode in our show notes or on our website.
