Are learning styles real?
Okay, Jam. I have a question for you, and I'm kind of nervous. But
Jam:Don't be nervous.
Melissa:I'm nervous.
Jam:This is a safe place where chemistry can exist in real life. So
Melissa:Well, this isn't chemistry, but it is learning.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Do you know your learning style?
Jam:I know that you you believe that there aren't learning styles or one kind.
Melissa:Okay.
Jam:You've told me that.
Melissa:Have I told you that? I didn't know. Dang it. Yep. Okay.
Melissa:Well, that's what we're gonna talk about today? We're gonna talk about learning styles and or the lack thereof learning styles.
Jam:Okay. Okay. I'm into it. I mean, I think we've, like, talked about it because of your chemistry education stuff.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:But it wasn't, like, on the podcast, and it wasn't probably, like, an in-depth combo.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:It's just like what I caught
Melissa:Yeah. Along the way. Absolutely. I was worried that that exact thing had happened, and, of course, it has. Alright.
Melissa:Well, we are gonna talk about it. If you if you didn't know that I thought that, Do you have what you think is a learning style?
Jam:No. Okay. I don't think so.
Melissa:Okay. Alright. Well, let's talk about Whether or not they exist, what we can learn from them, and it is gonna be really heavy on the education research side. So It's not as much chemistry, but we can talk about that too. We can talk about my field.
Jam:Alright.
Melissa:Are you ready to dive in?
Jam:I'm ready. Let's do this.
Melissa:Let's do it. Hey. I'm Melissa.
Jam:I'm Jam.
Melissa:And I'm a chemist.
Jam:And I'm not.
Melissa:And welcome to chemistry for your life.
Jam:The podcast helps you understand the chemistry of your everyday
Melissa:life. Learning edition style or learning style edition. I messed that up. Okay. Anyway, so I I'm excited about this topic because I actually am taking a graduate level course with our church Where we listen to lectures from a grad school that's, based in like I said, based?
Jam:Vancouver, British Columbia.
Melissa:Yeah. Until we listen to these audio recordings of these upper level classes. And I guess because it's those audio recordings, on multiple times In relation to those classes, I've heard people talk about their learning styles.
Jam:Oh, right.
Melissa:And I try not to be the kind of person who's like, actually. Right? But sometimes it's hard because I feel like I hear them say something that is, like, limiting themselves or hurting themselves, selves. And I'm just like, I wanna push back on that so that you can have a better self perspective
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:In a good way. I don't want this to hold you back or hurt you, so I wanna set Yeah. The record straight.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So that's why I was like, I I did mention it to them
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:In the moment. Yeah. But I also wanted to do a a study because I or a episode because I realized that we haven't really talked about it on the podcast. And if these people think that, then maybe Yeah. You know?
Melissa:Yes. Maybe our listeners do too.
Jam:Yeah. And I have thought about this before because I'll have friends who yeah. You have a really strong opinion that that based on classes that they've succeeded well in or haven't Mhmm. That they kinda formulate an idea. Like, I'm more of a visual, or I'm more of an audio learner, whatever.
Jam:I've always struggled with that because I don't feel like I have a strong distinction either direction. But I'm like I mean, I sympathize. Like, Someone's like, you're saying all this stuff, but I really need something to help me visualize it too.
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:And I'm like, makes total sense. I don't need that in this scenario, but maybe for something else I would. Sometimes I'm like, I wanna draw this out because Yes. It helps me think about it. But I'm not like, I always need a diagram, or I always need it only in audio.
Jam:You know?
Melissa:Well, that is a good pretty balanced perspective, and I think it will kind of Maybe I think that will come back into play as we talk about it later.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So let's talk about sort of the Background about learning styles and why I think and why there's no evidence that learning styles exist.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Okay. So you've probably heard them before in terms of visual, audio, or oral, and then kinesthetic. Okay. That's the tactile one. Like, oh, I have to put my hands on it to learn.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And then there's also reading slash writing.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So it's sometimes called VARK for visual audio visual reading slash writing and kinesthetic, v a r k. VARK. I'm Jam always has to name the audio file, but I have to give him, like, a coded name Yeah. Before we start.
Jam:So, yeah, the folder I just opened up is just called VARK, and I had no idea what that meant.
Melissa:He made an aardvark joke.
Jam:Yep. Which, you know
Melissa:That's pretty good.
Jam:Oh, yeah. It was perfectly set up for that.
Melissa:So these were developed by a New Zealand educational inspector, so I'm guessing he observed classrooms, essentially. He had observed a lot of classrooms.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:I'm not sure what their role is fully if we have any New Zealanders out there who wanna shed some light. You know? We don't have classroom inspectors here. Yeah. And so he was trying to understand, you know, essentially, why some students got things and others didn't.
Melissa:And so I'm gonna read an excerpt from him To you. Okay. Okay. Oh, I thought I had this pulled up, but I'm gonna have to flip Through it.
Jam:While you're doing that, I'll just say this is so fascinating to me for a couple of reasons. 1, You know? I think you and I are similar in this way. I love when there's a way that people have typically thought of things that are kind of in categories. And when science comes in, it's like, Sorry.
Jam:Yeah. No categories.
Melissa:I know. I know you'd love this because of JM hates personality quizzes because they're not based in science.
Jam:They really aren't in the one you think whatever one you're thinking of, you're like, I think this one is isn't. Alright. It just isn't. Whatever one you're thinking about, go look it up.
Melissa:So I knew that you would like this, and that's actually why I was worried that you already knew a lot about it.
Jam:Oh, I see.
Melissa:So I it does make sense that you held on to me sharing that tidbit
Jam:Yep.
Melissa:Because you feel that way.
Jam:I also think I watched a YouTube video about it that I'll I'll have to go dig around and see if I'm making that out of my mouth.
Melissa:The veritasium? Yeah.
Jam:Veritasium.
Melissa:Yes. Yes. So this is a fun fact. That is one of my references for today that in the, comments. But Uh-huh.
Melissa:So I was gonna do this independent of that. My boss today sent that to Me and our friend Sierra also sent that to me. We had a conversation about this as well. Yeah. But he is a physics education researcher.
Melissa:Oh, nice. We are part of this Type of research that's discipline based is what it's called. So discipline based education research deeper.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And what that means is you take people who have Ground or you give them a background in a discipline like physics, chemistry education or physics, chemistry, math, you you know, biology, and then you learn the education research side of it too. So you learn about the discipline, and you learn About education research because it's hard to do good research on how people learn that topic when you're that in-depth and other people don't Know it. So it'd be hard for an education researcher to do in-depth research on how somebody learns organic chemistry if they don't they haven't also learned organic chemistry. You really need someone who can Speaks both languages, so to speak.
Jam:You know? Yes.
Melissa:And so he probably feels similarly passionately about this because he's Also an education researcher. So a lot of things that I'm frustrated by, I think he's frustrated by in this too.
Jam:Yep. Okay. Yeah. I I haven't watched that video in a while, but I've I've watched a ton of his stuff. So, that's who I was thinking of.
Jam:And I was like, I just can't remember if that really is one of his videos. Am I, like, kinda combining some things?
Melissa:Yeah. So,
Jam:anyway, that's very cool. I'm glad that that's That that is real and also is connected to what you're talking about.
Melissa:So you probably know a lot of what I'm gonna tell you already or you know it somewhere deep down. But I do think I'll be able to share you some new stuff too because I'm not only just, you know, reading what he said. So here is from the person who, you know, created these this Bark learning styles theory.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So he's he noticed that Some excellent teachers did not reach learners, and some poor teachers are reaching learners, and he wants to understand that. And he says, There are core are, of course, many reasons for what I observed, but one topic that seemed to hold some magic Some I'm sorry. That just makes me laugh that it's magic. Some magic, some explanatory power was preferred modes of learning, modal preferences. Some part of a learning preference are comparatively difficult for an individual to change or for an education system to respond to.
Melissa:For example, preferred time of day to study Or preferred time for food intake or motivation, but attention to preferred learning modes allows flexibility for students and teachers to modify their behavior, if not their Friends. So and then he goes on to talk about how preferences are a part of who we are. And what's hard about that is I think that that's a good thing to think. If you think about preferences and That you have different preferences on how to do things, that's fine. Yeah.
Melissa:Everybody has different preferences. But I think this has Gone from being a preference to being what people think is a learning theory founded in Scientific research.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But it's not that. It's this person observing that there is Some explanatory power, some magic in learning preferences, and that must be why students are getting it and some students aren't.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:There's just 1 person's observations. It doesn't go through the types of protocols that we have in education research to really determine a, You know, robustness. Like, is this really valid? Is this really credible? Is this really what is this doing what we think it's doing?
Melissa:Do multiple people draw the same Conclusion from this data, you know, there are ways that we can take data like observing a classroom and draw conclusions From it. Mhmm. And we have methods of doing that, but you have to approach it in a nice methodological way so that we're maybe nice isn't A good word, but maybe like a rigorous mental methodological manner so that we can be confident in the conclusions you're drawing. And then it's just not one person's really biased, really subjective opinion. Objective opinion.
Melissa:That's how education research is typically done.
Jam:Got it. Okay.
Melissa:And so That's where like, making this observation and noticing things, I think, is fine. As as educators, a lot of times, we take anecdotal evidence of what our Students respond to or not in classrooms, and we we try to optimize that.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:But it's almost just, like, taking on this whole life Where I think it's now it does a lot of harm.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And as someone who has ADHD, I have to pay attention to my preferences because my brain It's always seeking dopamine. And if it's not a way I like doing things or I'm not excited about doing things, it's lower dopamine. And that means I have to be mentally prepared and aware, and I have ways That I approach low dopamine versus high dopamine tasks. You know? Uh-huh.
Melissa:So I'm not saying that it's bad to think about your preferences or Your brain function or things that you enjoy more or less. Mhmm. I'm saying this is not founded in science. Right. And I think and sometimes it can do more harm than good.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Okay. So that is where it started.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So then researchers, There's tons of, like, of, papers where people are talking about this. And something I noticed is that a lot of them Use learning styles as a theory, but they're not trying to prove it or disprove it.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So 1 reviewer Thought, okay. I'm gonna take all these learning styles, and I'm gonna determine you know, I'm gonna review all this literature and see. And his His main idea was if truly we learn better in our learning style, visual, audio, You know, kinesthetic or reading, writing. Then if we learn something in our style, we should perform better than if we're learning something not in our style.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:And there should be a statistically significant difference between like, the statistics should show this is not a coincidence. This is real.
Jam:It should be measurable if there's real
Melissa:Yes.
Jam:Yeah. Okay.
Melissa:Measurable and meaningful on a statistic statistics level. So There are not studies that do that.
Jam:Interesting.
Melissa:And in fact, there are studies that show there's no difference. Wow. So if you take a group of people and you divide them up and you fit you give them this learning styles quiz, the Specifically, this learning styles quiz. There's a lot of other learning style theories too out there. We'll we can talk about that later.
Melissa:But if you give them the visual audio Reading, writing can aesthetic quiz, and then they determine which one they are, and then you teach them something. You know? He I think he divided it into groups that are like, these people are learning in their preferred mode, and these people are learning not in their preferred mode, and there was no difference in performance. Wow. So it's not statistically significantly different.
Jam:Dang.
Melissa:And I think it it's really easy to say. Well, if it's not Statistically different, then it might not be harming people.
Jam:Right. Right.
Melissa:It's like, oh, they're performing the same.
Jam:Right. But Every classroom's gonna be a mixture of people. Right? So that would be a problem.
Melissa:Well, I wanna talk about that more about how it might be harming people, but I do kind of wanna read what this Reviewer said to summarize Okay. This paper. He said, although the literature on learning styles is enormous, very few studies have We even used an experimental methodology. So that's what I was talking about about not having methods. Capable of testing the validity of learning styles In education.
Melissa:So just to summarize that, they just didn't even really use a method framework at all similar to what he did, which is observing with no Methodological approach.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:Moreover, those that did use an appropriate method, several found that Found results that flatly contradict the popular meshing hypothesis. So the meshing is if you learn in your style, you'll perform better.
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:So not only Many of them not using methodological framework, those that are are finding contradictory information. And so their conclusion is that At present, there is no adequate evidence base to justify incorporating learning styles assessments into general education practice.
Jam:Dang.
Melissa:And the limited education resources would be better devoted to adopting other educational practices that do have a strong evidence base. Right. And that's where I wanna get into, oh, if they're performing the same whether they learn in their learning style or not, Then why does it matter? Because it's not hurting anything.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:They're performing the same. Mhmm. Because what is happening is you're devoting time and energy to Doing something that's not making any difference. Meanwhile, there are other educational practices that have scientific evidence that show Unequivocally, that students will learn better in this way.
Jam:You're right. Right.
Melissa:So it's not outwardly hurting them, like making them perform worse. Mhmm. But it is Taking away resources and, you know, brain space from from letting students be exposed to other Classroom management techniques or classroom teaching techniques that are going to be effective for them.
Jam:Everything really does cost something, especially in these kinds of Yes. Education systems is costing time and energy on the part of the educators or administrators or whatever you wanna say at some level. There's gotta be a cost. Right?
Melissa:Yeah. That That makes total sense. Yeah. And so these are the 2 things that I, as a chemistry education researcher, really don't like about Learning styles being so prevalent. I think there's a lot of things that we can learn from this, but I think that The 2 ways that misinformation actively hurts people is, 1, that it limits students' self belief or their belief in their ability to do things.
Melissa:Like, in the context of this class with my friends, they're saying they're having a hard time taking a lot of information in or learning because they're just not Audio learners.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Well, are they having a hard time taking information in and learning because they're not audio learners, or is it because they believe that they're not audio learners So they're limiting themselves from learning in that way.
Jam:Yeah. Yep.
Melissa:And is there a belief hurting them? Mhmm. And that's something that we Do have evidence like, in organic chemistry, there is clear evidence that how you feel about something can impact the way that you Have your classroom experiences. Yeah. And one that can be, that's correlated.
Melissa:I think it's it's a predictor, but in a In a complex relationship. So I won't say explicitly which one causes the other, but self efficacy or self belief is correlated to students' performance.
Jam:Right. Right. That makes some sense.
Melissa:It does. Right? Yeah. If you believe that you can do it, And there's also some stuff about growth mindset, which means, like, the idea that your intelligence is fixed or can grow, like
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:Which That also is a theory that has a little bit of questions around it. But this idea that, oh, I can't learn this way is going to impact If you can learn that way, there's, like, there is a possibility that that is happening, and it just really makes me sad when I hear people say, I Can't do this because I'm this type of learner.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:I just this is this is what brings me to say, actually, because it's like, I don't wanna be that person, but you can learn this way. It's just maybe this isn't the best medium for this content or, You know, there's all kinds of reasons that you can think that you can't learn this way well, but you can. You can. And it just hurts my heart, and I'm sad for my students when they Put themselves in that kind of a box. It limits their own abilities based on their beliefs in some cases, I think.
Jam:Yeah. And I could see that Totally been the case where if you've been told that by somebody else Mhmm. Or confirmed that in some way, you know, in a in a specific, like, anecdote. Yeah. So you think, for whatever reason, you are of the belief that you are not a good audio learner.
Jam:And then you're in a class like chemistry, which was very hard for me in high school. And if you're not doing well, It's easy to think, oh, it's because I'm a bad learner in audio, when really it must be like, no. No. This is hard. It's nothing's wrong with you.
Jam:Yeah. This is just hard.
Melissa:And Or the teacher's bad?
Jam:Yeah. But it could be neither, but it's like it's just a hard topic, and nothing's wrong with you. It's just gonna take a lot of work.
Melissa:And that's okay. It doesn't reflect on your intelligence.
Jam:But I think it feels defeating if you are like, oh, I'm doing bad. It must be because my learning style is not Yeah. Matching. And, wow, that's an immovable that's an unchangeable thing, and so I guess I'm just gonna be bad at this thing. Yeah.
Jam:You know? If you have that belief built in there. And that is, like, that would make total sense why someone might kinda just be discouraged Yeah. Real early instead of thinking, like, no. No.
Jam:You you really can get this. It just is hard. Yeah. It's just not the easiest thing ever.
Melissa:And on the Is it Veritasium or Veritas
Jam:Veritasium. I think
Melissa:it's On that YouTube channel, he talked about in his physics classes, You know, the importance of breaking down some of those misconceptions Mhmm. To help students, you know, learn. And then also, the other thing that Upsets me about this learn learning styles myth, for lack of better word, or this theory that's not based in anything, is That it does waste resources on both the teacher side and the student side. So the student might be like, I'm not doing well. I need to Change my learning style approach instead of thinking I'm not learning well.
Melissa:I'm gonna use one of these things that evidence actually shows will help you. And for teachers, I mean, I saw, I sort of just did a quick look up on TikTok of learning styles to see what people said. There is someone who talked about Teacher in surfaces around learning styles, which means days, teachers are provided food in some cases, time, energy wasted For the teachers, teaching them learning styles that have no impact really in the classroom. Yeah. And then also teachers don't have mental capacity.
Melissa:Like, they're maxed Stout.
Jam:Yep.
Melissa:So for for you to say, now not only do you need to do everything you're already doing, but you need to learn each individual student's learning styles And do something specialized for each one of those students to help them learn, that's not really that's a terrible use of their time because Evidence is showing that's not gonna help.
Jam:Yeah. Right.
Melissa:So it wastes resources in that way. Also, I mean, the person in this review said, Literature on learning styles is enormous, and that means that research on learning styles has been an enormous endeavor, Which means people are being paid. Time is being spent. Like, funding is going to Research about learning styles instead of research about something that may actually impact the class.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And one One of those papers even said limited research correlating learning styles. Sorry. This is in 2014, so I was like, I have to read this. Mhmm. Limiting research core limited The limited research correlating learning styles to learning outcomes has hampered the application of learning style Theory to actual classroom settings.
Melissa:So this person literally says, because we don't have a lot of research about it That correlates the 2, then it's not really good in in incorporating the classroom settings. But then their next line is Efforts to better define and utilize learning style theory is an area of growing research. Like and they they go on to want you to keep Working on
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Finding the correlation.
Jam:Right. Just keep working to prove this thing because we really want it to be true.
Melissa:That was how it felt. I was like, This whole paper ultimately came to the conclusion that there's limited correlation. There's limited research that had a correlation, not limited research about it. Limited correlational research.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And instead of saying, so let's move on and spend our time on things that have clear correlation between Practice and outcomes, they're saying, so let's keep spending our time on
Jam:this. Yeah.
Melissa:That's so close. I was like, man, you almost Yeah. Almost got it.
Jam:Yes. Yes.
Melissa:So, yeah, just a huge waste of resource in terms of everybody's Capacity. We have Right. Limited time and energy to invest in our classroom practices, in our research about classroom practices
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And learning theories. And This isn't a good place to put those resources because there's no evidence that'll work, and it's doesn't seem like it's for lack of trying.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:It's Because there's just not evidence.
Jam:And it seems like it could be one thing to be, like, someone who really wants to help students learn better. You have this idea about learning styles and say there's just not much out there. Mhmm. You try it. You don't see correlation.
Jam:It doesn't seem like A really fruitful path. But your goal the goal you really still have in mind is I wanna help you help students learn better. And whatever we could find, if there's something we can test that could get us some more information or options or something, then I'm like, okay. Yeah. Move it to something else.
Jam:Mhmm. What's another theory that maybe is not very well researched. Move on to that. Because the goal is helping people learn better. Right?
Jam:So let's stop, you know, filling broken cisterns. It's like But I think it is probably one of those things where people just kinda lose sight of it, or they just really are so convinced it's gonna be True. But they just I don't know.
Melissa:Well and as an education researcher, I mean, I have so many thoughts. But just listening to him say, I was puzzled when I observed excellent teachers did not reach some learners and poor teachers did. Mhmm. I'm like, well, then What makes an excellent teacher versus a poor teacher? Is that just what you've decided?
Jam:Right.
Melissa:What is your favorite on that? Because if it's reaching students, then Seems like maybe they're not as poor teachers as you think.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So that was one thing I had. But the other thing is if you're observing something where Some students are learning in some cases and others aren't. What I would do as an education researcher is make observations about what's going on. You know, I'll probably do a qualitative study, and I would gather this data and then look for patterns within the data. Not myself, but multiple people would it's do what's called coding.
Melissa:So they you would categorize things and look within the data for Ways that you could break down the information and group them together Mhmm. To ultimately draw conclusions about what's happening. And it's not just 1 independent person. Multiple people will do this, and then there's methods of coming and seeing what your agreement is and Coming to, like, consensus together, and then it's multiple people collaborating based on the same body of data To draw conclusions that are evidence based with a high level of credibility. Mhmm.
Melissa:That's not what this person did. This person, From my perspective, seem to decide what was an excellent teacher and what was a poor teacher and try to find a reason that some of those students weren't Learning. Yeah. And I'd it I read that sentence and was immediately like, oh, you know, there's just like a ho.
Jam:Yeah. Is that gonna be defined well somewhere else in the study? This, like, Here's how we determine this based on these very clear measurable factors, or is this an impression you get? Mhmm. You know?
Melissa:And I do think that I mean, as a qualitative researcher, one person's Experience is valuable. That's, like, what our data is about is looking at people's experiences and Trying to make sense of them, but it's not 1 person's experience. Like, as the experience So and the determiner of what it's about. That's just 1 person sharing a theory. That's not it's not it's not he doesn't even pretend like it's a study.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:So Yeah. That, for me, that is like a much better use of your resources is why didn't you find this observation, Which I already have a little bit of a weird feeling about what makes a good teacher a bad teacher. But Mhmm. Why didn't you take these observations and approach it in a methodological way? And maybe there wasn't the resources.
Melissa:Maybe he just didn't know at the time. You know? I don't I don't wanna come down too hard on this individual person, but it's just like When you mentioned there are other ways to do it, that's those are my thoughts as someone who has been trained in some of these methodological approaches and Seeing how other research has been done that has generated statistically meaningful results. Yep. Yep.
Melissa:So, The other thing I wanted to say is I think there are a few lessons that we can learn from this. Okay. Okay. Do you before we go into that part, do you wanna do you have any more thoughts you wanna share? Is there anything you're thinking right now?
Melissa:I feel like you got a little.
Jam:The the only thing I I feel like I'm understanding as well. The only thing is I'm that I'm kinda puzzled by is how I This never came up in my schooling. Mhmm. And I'm like, was it? Because I was in a small town in the middle of nowhere, and we are behind the The, like, trend?
Jam:Because it's like it's a trend that kinda grew at some point, or what. But I'm like, this never I don't remember Teachers that were talking about this.
Melissa:About learning styles? Mhmm.
Jam:And it and it might mean that they just had about it behind closed doors, but I don't remember ever being told, like, things Things like, if you're an audio learner, you need this or Mhmm. You should wanna do this. And, I only learned about this after I was completely done with school in every single way.
Melissa:Interesting.
Jam:And I'm just like, what? Was it part of that and I just didn't notice, or did my upbringing in my school specific school system and stuff. Just kinda like did I somehow miss that?
Melissa:Yeah. I don't know. I don't I couldn't remember when I Started to think this, but I do remember that I believed that I was an audio learner because I love podcasts so much. And now in hindsight, what I've learned is that I have a dopamine deficiency, and Listening to podcasts gives me it's, like, something that I'm interested and I like, and it's all the fun stuff about learning without any of the, like, Harder things about learning. And so it is a high dope dose of dopamine for something I enjoy, and it makes doing other tasks that I don't like more enjoyable.
Melissa:And so I thought that I was this this audio learner, but, really, it's that it's just something that I enjoy. I have preference from, but I don't really Sara Lee learned it better. It's just storytelling. It's just like reading a book or you know? Mhmm.
Melissa:And I love reading as a child, but I don't have time to read books all the Time now. And so it's literally just a way to get the storytelling of reading
Jam:Yep.
Melissa:In a more conveniently packaged way that also gives me the dopamine In boost of getting my dishes done while I get to Yeah. Take in a story.
Jam:It's actually, yeah, it's actually multitaskable a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I think the other thing I was thinking I was doing on I was remembering the moment that this is a reference to the personality thing, but I think it at least kind of speaks to this a bit. I remember, when I was, like, a junior in high school, I think, my aunt made me take one of the personality tests.
Jam:I won't I won't say which one because I don't wanna Specifically, get mad at 1 when they're all bad.
Melissa:People do get their feelings heard about.
Jam:Yeah. They don't want you to take it away from them. I took it, and it was, like, indicated I was a strong introvert type. That was one of the one of the categories that this specific test had. And then I took it again, about 3 years later, and I was right on the fence, too close to call, to call me an introvert or extrovert.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And I looked at my life situation that what had changed in those 3 years. I was like, yeah, makes total sense. My situation required me to be more extroverted, if you wanna use that word. Mhmm. And so I am now.
Jam:Yeah. And it didn't really help me to have the category of introvert to, like, pin myself in. Yeah. Because then I may not have, Like, try to adapt if that makes sense. Yeah.
Jam:And I'm not saying that, you know, everything about us is completely changeable or whatever. But I have to think it kind of is more helpful and more encouraging to think of myself as, like, clay that's still moldable and malleable When the situation changes, new job, new life stage, whatever Yeah. To think of myself as adaptable, It's actually good. It's like, okay. This is a little hard, but it's not impossible.
Jam:I'm not a block of stone that is stuck in the shape I'm in. Yeah. You know? So I remember feeling that way and being like, you know, I think I'm not gonna think about introvert expert stuff anymore. I think I'm just gonna not bother with that
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And leave it behind.
Melissa:Well and I think there are some valuable things to take away. Like, it's valuable for me to understand my preferences In learning. And what I'm excited about and what seems fun to me and what doesn't seem fun, I think that's valuable. And I'll talk about sort of at the end What do we do now that we have this information? But so there's value in it, but I think the value stops when we think And this is how I am, and this and I can't be changed, and this is the only way I can learn.
Melissa:Right? This is the only way I get energy is from being with people or not being people when humans are not that way. You know? Like, I think my husband can feel pretty drained when he's around big groups of people.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:And before we got married, he was nervous about being around me so much in a 1 bedroom apartment. He was like, am I gonna get drained from you? You know? It's like, is it gonna feel like I'm always pouring out? But because, you know, something about being married, it's like, no.
Melissa:He doesn't feel drained from me, really.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So for you to Like, say, like, across the board, he gets drained from being with people. Well, that's just not really true. So now I see an extrovert, or is it just, You know? Yeah.
Jam:Or is it just that we change and we could be different? Yeah.
Melissa:And there are different different people bring out different sides of you, you know? So I think there there is not It's hard because there's humans aren't just black and white, and that's what makes learning about learning really hard.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:It it can't get in there in our brains and see.
Jam:You know? Right.
Melissa:So it is it's definitely a lot to think about. I was like, I'm just It's gonna should I ease them into it? Should I just drop the bomb? And I went with the dropping the Brahman poach. So if there are people out there Yeah.
Melissa:Yeah. I mean, If there are people out there who are, like, totally shocked and need to process this, I totally understand. I felt the exact same way. I cannot tell you how much I believed that I loved Listening to lectures and podcasts and stuff because I believed I was an audio learner. Mhmm.
Melissa:I mean, the reason we have this podcast is partially because. I mean, not when I made this. Did I still think that? But the reason I love podcast Yeah. Is because I thought that.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So if you're freaking out, It's okay. Process, take all the time you need. Yeah. So here are some lessons that I think it's important to learn from this. So like I said, what's what's hard about this topic is that there is a lot of scientific literature out there Citing and using learning styles as if it is a theory.
Melissa:Mhmm. Like, proven. And A lot of them are not trying to prove or disprove it. They're almost using it as the framework through which we're gonna look at this thing. And so what does that mean?
Melissa:Like, does that mean we can't trust scientific literature? Does that mean, like, nothing's Nothing's trustworthy. You know? Like, are we having an existential crisis about this? And I think this means something that I have We have talked about a lot, which is a good science means that when you are wrong and you get new data that changes what you thought, You you adapt your understanding to that.
Melissa:This is just a new data point, and we adapt our understanding. So even though there are papers that used this, that was, I think before, a lot of the evidence came out that this isn't really based in anything. Yeah. And they didn't use it to try to prove or disprove. They kind of used it as a framework to set up their study within.
Melissa:So that's one thing. That's one lesson I want you to take is good science means when we get new data, we change our view.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:But that also means looking for sort of the roots of things. Looking at the methods of studies, looking at how things were determined is really important. If you're a scientist or even if you're just consuming literature, you know, about science, It is really important to look at and think about sort of the origin of this thing. So we've talked about that with funding matters. Not necessarily because they're gonna fudge the data, but because they might not publish the things that's not gonna be beneficial to them and only publish studies that cast I'm in a good light.
Melissa:They're not lying about anything. You know? Yeah. So that's something that to think about. And in this case, it's like if you had Try to go find, like, oh, where did this learning style theory come from and realize that it wasn't even from a scientific study originally.
Melissa:That would be That would change the way that you would approach it.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:That would have changed whether or not you set up studies on that. And so, Yeah. And I think, also, it's valuable to know that I trust the scientific process, you know, but It is inherently designed by humans. Yep. So all we can do is the best that we can do with the information that we have at the time as scientists and as people.
Melissa:And so I that's, I think, why I really encourage, like, keep your mind open. If you get a data point that doesn't line up, think about that. You know? Like, This is a good opportunity for us to use critical thinking skills and talk about how important and valuable they can be. Yeah.
Melissa:So those are some lessons that I took away from this.
Jam:Nice. Those are great. And I think, like, I don't know. Honestly, the last thing you just said really reminded me. You kinda channeled a little bit of Gandalf.
Jam:Just the way that you said. So do you remember the the scene where Frodo is like, I wish the ring never came to me. Sorry, guys. I'm gonna nerd for a second. Okay?
Melissa:I love it. I've been listening to this Bear podcast, and they talk about Lord of Rings all the time. So
Jam:Okay.
Melissa:I'm so for it.
Jam:So it's Being both the book and the movies is almost exactly the same, writing. Frodo's like, man, I wish I wish the ring never came to me. I wish blah blah blah. I wish that has ever happened. And then, again, I was like, yeah.
Jam:You know, so does everyone who ever encountered anything like this at all. But all you have to do is decide what to do with the time that's given to you. Yeah. They're like, you talking about you said the phrase you said you have to do decide what to do with the
Melissa:New data that
Jam:you have. Yeah. To use. Like, That's that's all that's all we have. We have to do the best we can with the day we have.
Jam:But it's also kind of a relief because okay. We might find something out that's different tomorrow, and then we can change. Yeah. But, like, right now, all we gotta do is do the best we can with the day we have. And, like, that's not easy, but it's nice that it allows room for us to change tomorrow.
Jam:Yeah. And we can all say, you know, oops. Like, we didn't know. Now we do. Yeah.
Jam:And that's, like, the best. That's, like, a totally freeing feeling in my mind.
Melissa:Yeah. Well and it's also really hard. It's it's easy for me to say that, but it's also really hard because, like, as a person in your day to day life, Are you like, I I don't know exactly how to say this. Like, I don't want you to say, well, If it if it doesn't if it seems a little fishy, I just don't think it's true. You know?
Melissa:It's like, this doesn't fit into my existing worldview, then I'm not gonna take it in. I think we've seen a lot of that. People Not trusting science, like, in the aftermath of COVID nineteen because it was so confusing. You know? Right.
Melissa:And I'm not encouraging, like, don't trust the scientific process. None of this None of this matters. None of this is real. It's obvious in humans. It's all inherently flawed.
Melissa:That's not what I'm saying. Mhmm.
Jam:I
Melissa:think that it served us really well. Look at the technology that we've had. Look at the medicines that we have. You know, Lessons that we have, you know, a lot of these things in the Western world have come from scientific process. In other cultures, they come from other processes.
Melissa:But for us, that's where they've come from. But try to think critically about the information you're giving Mhmm. Given. Think about the origins of it. Think about, You know, how is this is this being spun in a way?
Melissa:Right. You know? Like, what is this information really worthy, or is this what the person who's sharing it with me is their strong opinion? You know? Like, where's the line between This is there's good evidence to support this versus this is kind of a more subjective opinion.
Melissa:And it I don't think it's a natural skill, And I think it can be really challenging, and I think it's even harder if you don't have a good scientific background, but You're here. You're learning. This these are the kinds of things you can do for that, and you just you can take this as a good, Some positive lessons
Jam:Mhmm. From it
Melissa:of like, okay. Here's these are good things to think about.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It's hard to talk about because I'm like, what is it? How has this fallen how have we fallen so short by, like, perpetuating this? You know? Yeah. But all we can do is now that we have good evidence and Maybe.
Melissa:I'm hesitant saying this. In a lot of other times, like, when people ask about blood type in mosquitoes, I'm like, well, we just don't know yet. Yeah. I don't even think we've looked into it. In this one, we've looked into it, and it doesn't look good.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:So I'm not saying that maybe I'm wrong, and maybe we come back in 20 years, and we're like, look. There's evidence. But there's right now, there's a lot of evidence the other way. So Yep. I'll keep an open mind.
Melissa:I'll keep learning about it. But right now, the evidence says put your energy into some other things. Yeah. So and that gets me oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Jam:I was gonna say it's fair enough. To go ahead and put it.
Melissa:So that gets me to, now what do we do? Now how do we learn if we're not using learning styles? Yeah. So some here's a few good Things that I know of based on research and, you know, learning is, 1, use all your sensory systems to learn. So and they're it's probably gonna be content that lends itself to different types of learning styles for lack of a better word.
Melissa:But If you're learning music, it's a lot easier to learn music if you can hear it. You know? Right. So their Learning music is inherently an auditory process.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:Or, you know, learning organic chemistry Yeah. In chemistry or just chemistry in general, we've talked about, like, where electrons hang out and the shapes of orbitals. That's gonna be a lot easier to understand if you can see a visual representation of the shape of an Of a orbital. Or if you're trying to do some kind of science experiment, you know, Seeing the experiment happen and doing it with your hands, that's gonna be very valuable. You know?
Melissa:So there's There is value in using all of your your senses, all of your sensory system to learn and optimize that and Think about if the content lends itself to something, something my mom did. And it's kinda fun because it's October, and that's when her birthday was. She told me whenever I was in grad school, she told me that when she was in college, she would record her professor And then listen back and take notes.
Jam:Mhmm. And
Melissa:so she was like, I was learning it by listening and writing. And oh, no. You know what she told me? She would read her notes out loud and record them. Oh.
Melissa:And so she would She was like, I'd be talking about it. I'd be hearing about it, and I would write the notes. You know? So it's like I was trying to get all of these senses. And so she told me that.
Melissa:And then in grad school, I used that to, like, basically make audio flashcards because I like learning while I'm listening mean, something in walking around, stuff like that. Yeah. Not because it's how I best learn, but I enjoy it. So I basically made audio flashcards. Yeah.
Melissa:And I did that same thing. You know? So you get the reading, writing component in your notes, and then you get the listening. And I guess writing is Sometimes people say writing is kinesthetic, which is, again, something that I'm like reading, writing versus kinesthetic. Yeah.
Melissa:Anyway
Jam:Right.
Melissa:So Using all of these sensory experiences is gonna be the best. Mhmm. And then also, there is Peer reviewed evidence based methods of teaching, and a big one is something called active learning.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:So students learn best when they're doing things and not when they're passively listening.
Jam:Right. Which makes total sense. Mhmm. And, like, that's intuitive, and it's great that research backs it up.
Melissa:Yes. Yeah. Sometimes it's intuitive, and research doesn't back it up.
Jam:Right.
Melissa:And that's part of why we actually do this podcast the way that we do is I try to make this an active learning environment where you can ask questions, And you're prompted to share back with me what you're learning so that you're making your own, you know Yeah. You're Making connections, you're an active part of the learning process. So and if you're an educator, there there is, You know, probably chemistry educator, but for lots of other fields, there are education researchers who specialize in your area who would be able to Share what's what you've learned. There's a lot of, like, for chemistry, the chemistry education research and practice Is open access. So anyone can access articles about learning and how to learn chemistry best.
Melissa:So There are there is evidence that backs up good ways to learn. So there you go.
Jam:Sweet.
Melissa:So that was kind of a lot.
Jam:Yeah. It's good, though. That's good stuff.
Melissa:Do you wanna kind of, maybe share back with me what Your thought what you're thinking right now and what your big takeaways are?
Jam:Yeah. Certainly. Science is whatever we want it to be. There's No way of knowing anything. The brain is a black box.
Jam:We'll never figure it out. No. Just kidding. That was a little bit of inspired by doctor Spichemian from, 30 Rock. He says statements like that all the time.
Jam:He's like, science is whatever we want it to be, and he's like, There's really no way of knowing what diabetes is. It's like he'll say things like that. It's like, no. You're a doctor. You're supposed to know that.
Jam:Anyway okay. For real. For real. So Take big takeaways is learning styles, there is preferences.
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:And, obviously, that You know? We can't take this away from people, and we can't you know, when someone says, I prefer to lose weight, he'd be like, nope. Sorry. No. You don't.
Jam:It's like, well, yeah, I do. You know, I kind of reference. But it is really, really helpful to know that in with research and testing and seeing how different people learn in those Preferred settings and then testing them, there's no, sign that that benefits them Mhmm. In terms of their scores or whatever. And And so that's really helpful to know.
Jam:You may enjoy the process a bit more, but it's not seeming to show any significant, meaningful measurable difference in your results.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:Great to know. And that really probably the best thing is combining a bunch of different styles, visual, Audio, oral, reading, writing, kinesthetic
Melissa:Mhmm.
Jam:Covers a bunch of different ways and and approaches, and that could be a good way of trying to incorporate them without pigeonholing people. But most importantly, which we've been able to to, demonstrate on this show a lot active what did you say? Active listening?
Melissa:Active learning.
Jam:Active learning, where it's a the conversational element to it. And it's not just listen to a lecture, but if possible, a times for questions. Times for, repeat that back to me times 4.
Melissa:Brex problems.
Jam:Brex problems. Things where it's not just listening to 1 person speak, but, an engaging, interactive approach seems to show very clear signs that that helps all kinds of learners regardless of their styles or whatever.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:And, introverts and experts are a myth. And what else did you say?
Melissa:Present that today.
Jam:I'm trying to think of what else what other things you said that were direct quotes. I talked
Melissa:about, like, lessons that we can take from this.
Jam:Oh, yes. Your lessons were to
Melissa:And this is why we have active learning.
Jam:The second one was the Gandalf one, which is, science changes, and we'd we should we should change with it. So, like, as we find new things out, go over the data. It shows us we have a new data point. Follow it. Yeah.
Jam:1st one was
Melissa:I think those were Together. It's like good science means admitting when you're wrong and
Jam:Got it. There we go. Yeah. K.
Melissa:And then the last 1 was to look Deeply and think critically about where your information is originating from.
Jam:Right. Just like the funding sources thing too.
Melissa:Yeah. But
Jam:yeah. Where is it coming from, and is this does does this really sort of pass the smell test kinda thing?
Melissa:Yeah. Pass the smell test.
Jam:I don't know. That felt right.
Melissa:I liked
Jam:it. Term. Instead of saying, this is really bad research, it's like, well, is it does it really does it really If you check under the hood, does it look okay? Yeah. And does it seem like it's referencing good stuff or whatever?
Jam:But which is hard. And again, we talked about it a couple times ago, but, like, Just the difficult thing for for folks like me if I'm sending an article or something like that. Just not really knowing. Like, Something might reference learning styles in an article the way that you talked about
Melissa:it. Mhmm.
Jam:Referencing the theory of learning styles without talking about, oh, by the way, No research is yet proving anything substantial about learning styles theory. But if it's referencing it along the way to some other point it's making, then I will not know.
Melissa:Yeah.
Jam:I will it's gonna go right over my head, and I'm a think, oh, I guess that's a theory that is legit. You know? That that's what makes it hard. I mean, like, now I know, but there's who knows how many other things like that out there that are so easy to, like, just drop in an article and mention it Yeah. And not realize, I wonder if I went and Googled that, what I would find and what I find that that's not quite so airtight.
Melissa:And that's where I think some of the responsibility of communicating, like, and, Fighting that misinformation, it's on us. It's on the people trained in that. And that's part of why I have this podcast, and that's part of why I think science communication is really important, and I'm actually currently trying to write a grant for this podcast.
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And it's like, I want You have to talk about what the ultimate outcomes are. You know? And, ultimately, I hope that all forms of Formal science learning like this one where we're not in a classroom. You know? They're gonna help anyone with or without a formal chemistry background think critically and make informed decisions about where chemistry is interacting with our daily lives.
Melissa:You know? Mhmm. And so I I think it can be discouraging like what you said, but also it's like, well, that's our job. That's part of what what science communicators should be doing. Yeah.
Melissa:And I think, you know, that's something sort of like how, the people who made plastic I'm like, this is on you. Like, we need to Now I'll be working to right those wrongs. And, like, now, education researchers need to be out here communicating how best to learn.
Jam:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Melissa:So, yeah, that's what that's how I see a lot of my role. I didn't even draw that connection until right now. It's like, I I'm not a polymer chemist, so I'm not gonna be able to work on plastics.
Jam:Right?
Melissa:But I am gonna be able to work on finding research or communicating research about What is the best thing we can do to learn the most effectively? And maybe I'll just do a whole other episode about just that sometime. But this This was one that I was like, I wanna correct this because I don't want people to be missing out Yeah. Because they've they've put themselves in a learning style box. Yeah.
Melissa:That was a good way to wrap it up.
Jam:I love it. Very interesting. Thank you for sharing us with us.
Melissa:You're welcome.
Jam:Yeah. So fascinating.
Melissa:I'm so glad. I mean, I know it's not chemistry explicitly, but there are journal articles in chemistry education Research journals that talk about learning styles, so I was like, that counts.
Jam:Yeah. And there is chemistry happening in our brains. I mean, everything is chemistry.
Melissa:So Yeah.
Jam:You know?
Melissa:It's chemistry. The The radio waves
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:Or chemistry even. They're bringing this to you. Do podcast work on radio waves?
Jam:You, Sound waves. Yeah. I mean
Melissa:Wi Fi waves.
Jam:Bluetooth or even if you have, like, a wired headphone that's going through there.
Melissa:That's true.
Jam:You know?
Melissa:Electronic electricity. Your phone to listen to this. Mhmm. Anyway. Yep.
Melissa:So that's it. That's what I have for you today. Do you wanna wrap it up with a fun thing?
Jam:Yes. I would love to. I can do a a pretty short one. This is I'll have an update for people later. But, my son and I are going to I'm very excited because I've discovered a new Ground coverage plant that replaces grass.
Jam:Here's the thing about dry Texas summers and Climate change is grass. A lot of grass is so thirsty and wastes a bunch of water. And it's a lot of different things people are trying to do to, you know, avoid just wasting a bunch of water Mhmm. On your yard all all summer long. But also, you know, wanting to have something that looks good, makes you wanna be outside, all that kind of stuff.
Jam:It's all so hard. There's a tons of options. Yeah. But I found this new kind of plant hybrid. And by new, I mean, to, like, Probably the last 3 or 4 years, it's
Melissa:around school.
Jam:So for some people, they probably heard about it. But called carapia, and, It is like a leafy ground coverage thing that looks kinda like brass because its leaves are small. It doesn't need to be watered nearly as much.
Melissa:Looks kinda like clover, I
Jam:think. But clover is really not great for traffic. So if you're gonna walk on your yard a lot or play with the kids and stuff like that or whatever you wanna do in your yard, Clover doesn't handle that very well. It'll wear down and, you know Gotcha. Gotcha.
Jam:So it is looks like clover, better traffic, Love sun, loves dry. Heat is what they bred it for and stuff. And I'm just pumped about it because our front yard has been okay ish, but our backyard has struggled so hard.
Melissa:Yeah. There's, like, whole patches of just dirt.
Jam:Yeah. Basically, we have a back dirt, patch instead of a backyard. So, Anyway, if you start about that, TBD, I'll update people later. I'm doing a little bit of science over here.
Melissa:Science or whatever you want it to Maybe. Yep. Don't don't take that soundbite and post it anyway.
Jam:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa:Don't do it.
Jam:I mean, I think it's pretty obvious how sarcastic I'm being what I'm saying. So, Anyway, what about you? What's a fun thing?
Melissa:Well, I will say in that Bear podcast I listened to, it's like it's the similar in format. Uh-huh. But it's got a guy and his brother. Mhmm. And his brother will say Similar to you, where he'll just, like, say things that are just not true, but he's trying to be funny.
Melissa:Yeah. And he'll just say, yeah. The and then he's like, I gotta stop saying yeah. Like, I'm saying, yeah, as a
Jam:kind of a agreeing. Right?
Melissa:Joke, like, I'm appeasing you. Like, yeah. Sure. Whatever.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But he's like, I gotta stop agreeing to Whatever you say immediately because you just never know what that's gonna turn into. Okay. So, well, my happy thing is Some are related.
Jam:Uh-huh.
Melissa:So I also am gonna have to figure out ground cover for my yard Because we are renting a house. Oh. They've lived in an apartment for a long time. They raised the rent an exorbitant amount and for the Same price as our apartment rent. Actually, for we combined with, a friend who lived in the same complex.
Melissa:And for less than Our rents combined, we're able to get more than twice the space.
Jam:Yeah. Incredible.
Melissa:Incredible. So we are renting a house with a friend, And to Anne, we're so excited, and I'm gonna have a yard. And the front yard is basically just also a dirt patch.
Jam:Yep.
Melissa:Just looking into maybe doing native grasses and stuff?
Jam:Yes.
Melissa:Yeah. Pollinator friendly grasses
Jam:Mhmm.
Melissa:And, plants, ground cover because well, 1, pollinators are important, but, 2, you can't do a lot of friendly stuff because you have a pollinator allergic person.
Jam:Yeah. That's true. That's true.
Melissa:It's kinda rough.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:But I'm really excited for A house. Like, I I we had hoped to buy, but not super realistic and aware of this house is just perfect. It's, like, by a lot with lots of trees. Mhmm. And there's all kinds of birds in the area, which made me really excited.
Melissa:The, like, first time I went for a walk in that neighborhood, There was an eastern bluebird, which I've seen blue jays in that neighborhood a lot when I and they're one of my friends lives there. Mhmm. But It was the eastern blue bird. It wasn't a blue jay, and I've I've never seen one of those before. Like, I've only ever seen blue jays around, and I've seen a blue bird.
Melissa:So it's, like, so exciting. Yeah. And it's just nice to have a yard. And we also rented a garage from our apartment complex, but you could either store stuff Or park in it.
Jam:Mhmm. And
Melissa:in this garage, you can store stuff and park in it.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:It's a it's a single car garage, but with room for storage.
Jam:Nice.
Melissa:And so it just is very exciting. There's so much natural light. It's so quiet. You don't have to hear people stomping around.
Jam:That's awesome.
Melissa:You don't have to smell other people's smells.
Jam:Yep.
Melissa:It's the best.
Jam:That's great. That's awesome. I have not seen it yet, so I need to.
Melissa:True. You haven't.
Jam:Just pictures.
Melissa:We slept there this, day before yesterday for
Jam:the night. Yeah. That's awesome.
Melissa:We're sleeping on an air mattress, But it's a good camping air mattress. So Nice. You got to the point where it was too much of our stuff had moved over.
Jam:Yeah.
Melissa:It was like, we can't Cook over here because we don't know when we're packing. Like, it's just not worth it. And so we just powered through on Sunday and just Nice. Got everything over there. So yeah.
Jam:That's great. Well, congrats.
Melissa:Yeah. Congrats. You too. Keep me posted so I can know if I need to do that same thing in my yard.
Jam:I will. I'll share with you the research that made me decide to go with this option so you can decide if it's, you know, Good thing for you or not. But yeah.
Melissa:Okay. Great. Well, thanks, Jam, for thanks for caring so much about learning styles and personality tests Anytime. For letting me teach you all about it.
Jam:I'm so glad you did, and thank you for caring about it as well and being willing to teach us about it.
Melissa:That was fun.
Jam:Super fascinating topic, and I I think that our listeners are gonna love it too. I don't think it's gonna be one of the things where it's like, it's not chemistry, like, in really, like, a really specific way. But that's okay. I mean, you know, teach their own.
Melissa:This is my other expertise. I'm half and half, So, you know, you gotta give a little love to the other side.
Jam:Exactly. Exactly. So if you have an idea, question, thought, whatever, you think might be chemistry or even, In this case, you know, kind of related to to learning styles. Please send it to us. We love hearing all those ideas, your questions.
Jam:You can do that, on our website at chemforyourlife. Com. That's kim, f o r, your life.com to share your thoughts and ideas. If you like to help us keep our show going and contribute to cover the cost of making it, You can go to patreon.com/chem for your life, or type the link in our show notes or in the description of the video to join our super cool Chem Unity of patrons. It's the best.
Jam:We love it. The folks over there are so fun. So please join. We'd love you for you to be there. But if you're not able to do that, you can still help us by subscribing on your favorite podcast app, Rating or writing a review on Apple Podcasts and also subscribing on YouTube.
Jam:Those things really help to, help us share chemistry with even more people.
Melissa:This episode of chemistry free life was created by Melissa Colini and Jam Robinson. Jam Robinson is our producer, And this episode was made possible by our financial supporters on Patreon. It means so much to us that you wanna help make chemistry accessible to even more people. And those supporters are Latila s, Rachel r, Bree m, Avishai B, Brian K, Chris and Claire S, Chelsea B, Derek L, Emerson W, Hunter R, Jacob T, Christina G, Katrina h, Lynn s, Melissa p, Nicole c, Nelly s, Steven b Shadow, Suzanne p, Timothy p and Venus r, thank you again for everything you do to make chemistry free life happen. An extra special thanks To Bree, who often creates illustrations to go along with episodes of chemistry for your life, you can see those over on our YouTube channel.
Melissa:So please thank Brie by following her and giving your giving her your support at entropic.artstation.com. That's linked in our show notes And at Brie McAllister on Twitter.
Jam:And if you like to learn more about today's chemistry lesson and the lessons in about learning styles and all that stuff, can check out the references for this episode in our show notes and in the description of the video. Thanks. Yay, chemistry.
Melissa:Yay, chemistry.
Jam:Oh, that was close.
Melissa:Yeah.
